Greek demands (?) summarised by PMA

[johnMKD]

When they accepts that their nautical border is not 12 miles up to the coast of Turkish towns even reaching the Turkish soil, then they will realize that there is no violation at all.

Onur, I don't think the 12-mile nautical border enters the Turkish soil. I just found this map. Not very good one, but on the upper left hand side you can see both countries' claims. The resolution of the pic is rather good.

[Onur]

Onur, I don't think the 12-mile nautical border enters the Turkish soil. I just found this map. Not very good one, but on the upper left hand side you can see both countries' claims. The resolution of the pic is rather good.

It enters Turkish soil but Greeks "graces us the soil" by lowering it to 10-11 miles when it reaches Turkish soil.


You will see that here if you look carefully to the Greek claimed borders with orange line;







Now, check this one. I`ve got a summer resort in Cesme. I marked it`s place with black cross here;



You see the Greek claimed border with orange line here as well. This means when i sail on to the sea with my friends little boat, we would immediately be welcomed by Greek naval force, probably shoot down by them and get drowned. The same naval force who chanted in the streets of Athens about murdering and then skin out the Albanians, Turks, Macedonians two months ago.

Also i`ve got one more question; If we accept Greek claim, then tell me where is the international waters in Aegean sea? There should be an international waters too so this means if we accept Greek claims of 12 mile borders, Turkish people wont even have any right to use Aegean sea at all. Maybe i can swim at front of my house but if i try to catch some fishes with my little boat, i will either see giant oceanic ships because international waters will be on our ass or we will get shot to death by fascist Greek naval force soldiers.


So dear John, I think you see how pathetic is the 12 miles claim. That would officially turns whole Aegean sea as a Greek lake. I know that some Greek people considers Aegean sea as a Greek sea for ages, right? lol



As long as a country named Turkey and Turkish people exists in the world, Greece will NEVER have 12 miles nautical borders in Aegean sea. It`s simple as that. This is not only my personal opinion either. Every Turkish people with above braindead level IQ and primary school grade geography thinks as exact same as me.

Already Turkish governments officially stated that if Greece tries to claim 12 miles nautical borders, then we will consider this act as a reason of war. I think Greek government officially asked this to Turkey in 1999 for the last time and i remember that our prime minister gone mad and declared to the Turkish media like "If Greeks have enough courage, they can try to send their naval force further than 6 miles in the Aegean sea. We will be waiting them right here, anytime they wish to do so"

[johnMKD]

It enters Turkish soil but Greeks "graces us the soil" by lowering it to 10-11 miles when it reaches Turkish soil.


You will see that here if you look carefully to the Greek claimed borders with orange line;



Now, check this one. I`ve got a summer resort in Cesme. I marked it`s place with black cross here;



You see the Greek claimed border with orange line here as well. This means when i sail on to the sea with my friends little boat, we would immediately be welcomed by Greek naval force, probably shoot down by them and get drowned. The same naval force who chanted in the streets of Athens about murdering and then skin out the Albanians, Turks, Macedonians two months ago.

Also i`ve got one more question; If we accept Greek claim, then tell me where is the international waters in Aegean sea? There should be an international waters too so this means if we accept Greek claims of 12 mile borders, Turkish people wont even have any right to use Aegean sea at all. Maybe i can swim at front of my house but if i try to catch some fishes with my little boat, i will either see giant oceanic ships because international waters will be on our ass or we will get shot to death by fascist Greek naval force soldiers.


So dear John, I think you see how pathetic is the 12 miles claim. That would officially turns whole Aegean sea as a Greek lake. I know that some Greek people considers Aegean sea as a Greek sea for ages, right? lol



As long as a country named Turkey and Turkish people exists in the world, Greece will NEVER have 12 miles nautical borders in Aegean sea. It`s simple as that. This is not only my personal opinion either. Every Turkish people with above braindead level IQ and primary school grade geography thinks as exact same as me.

Already Turkish governments officially stated that if Greece tries to claim 12 miles nautical borders, then we will consider this act as a reason of war. I think Greek government officially asked this to Turkey in 1999 for the last time and i remember that our prime minister gone mad and declared to the Turkish media like "If Greeks have enough courage, they can try to send their naval force further than 6 miles in the Aegean sea. We will be waiting them right here, anytime they wish to do so"

I thought, Onur, that the 12-claim was under some sort of International Law. I do think that the 12-mile claim cannot be applied for regions such as Chios and Cesme because they are very close to each other. It would mean that entire Greek islands are Turkish and the Turkish coast is Greek. For example, it would mean that at the same time Chios is Turkish and Cesme is Greek and vice versa; that would be ridiculous. Personally I don't give a shit of how many miles the border should be, so long as it applies to international regulations and bilateral agreements between Turkey and Greece.

Let our politicians once more fight over this; they will never find a solution for sure. But a war over this would be a disaster to both sides. That's why it's avoided and it should be.

[Onur]

I thought, Onur, that the 12-claim was under some sort of International Law. I do think that the 12-mile claim cannot be applied for regions such as Chios and Cesme because they are very close to each other. It would mean that entire Greek islands are Turkish and the Turkish coast is Greek. For example, it would mean that at the same time Chios is Turkish and Cesme is Greek and vice versa; that would be ridiculous.

Actually, all this happens because western powers gave all the islands in the Aegean sea to the Greece, even the ones so close to Turkey. So, this is the reason of the confusion. At Treaty of Lousanne in 1924, I know that when Turkish government demanded to get back some of the Aegean islands which close to Turkey, British said that they consider this demand as a reason of new war.

Greece claims to have 12 miles nautical borders just because it has islands right on the ass of Turkey. Also because of the same reason, EU supports Greece to claim whole Cyprus.

The reason is simple;
Western powers prefers to see Aegean sea as a Greek sea and also they wanna completely kick out the Turkish people in Cyprus. So, if they realize both of these, Turkey will be completely stuck and inoperable in both Aegean and Mediterranean sea. All will be controlled by Greece on paper but in reality, all will be controlled by western powers since as always, Greece is just a puppet of them.


P. S: No offense to you or any ordinary Greek citizen but it`s just the reality. They don't support Greece just because they love you. They wanna completely dump Turkey from Aegean and Mediterranean sea, thats why they support Greece in Cyprus. On the other hand, 12 miles claim is so ridicules that even EU doesn't support you that much.

[Prolet]

Onur, You did mention Cheshme we say Cheshma for water Tap is this how you say this word in Turkish?

My understanding is that Greece owns all the Aegean Islands except for 3 of them which Turkey owns, surly there has to be some kind of a solution for this.

[Onur]

Onur, You did mention Cheshme we say Cheshma for water Tap is this how you say this word in Turkish?

Prolet, i think we found like 30-40th common words for now? So "Chesme" will be 41th, hehe



So i REALLY wonder how many words are common in Macedonian and Turkish now. I just did a google search and found this article written by a Turkish Macedonian in Skopje, BLAJE KONESKI university.

abaci>abaciya, bahçivanci>bavçanciya, gayretli>gayretliya, dalaveraci>dalaverciya, elçi>elçiya,zavalli>zavaliya, hileci>ileciya, yazi>yaziya, kavgaci>kavgaciya, lâkirdi>lakrdiya, masrafli>mastrafliya, niyetli>nietliya, pamuklu>pamukliya, raki>rakiya, sarayli>sarayliya, tatli>tatliya, ütü>utiya, fidan boylu>fidanboyliya, hocabasi>hocabasiya, çarsi>çarsiya, serbetli>serbetliya, çalgi>çalgiya, karsi>karsiya, burgu>burgiya, kutu>kutiya, orospu>orospiya/rospiya, ütü>utiya, çarþý>çarsiya, sürü>suriya, terazi>teraziya.

Transformations of letters when adopting Turkish words in Macedonian language;
b>p: biber>piper, bodrum>podrum, sabun>sapun
c>gy: cezve>gyezve, cüzdan>gyuzden
f>v: ziyafet>ziyavet, insaf>isav, mutaf>mutav
h>k: ahmak>akmak, bahþiþ>bakþiþ, halife>kalifa, mahsus>maksus
h>v: bahçe>bavça, bohça>bovça, mühlet>muvlet, tahta biti>tavtabita
tamahkâr>tamavkyar, tenha>tevna
h>y: zahire>zayre
k>g: böbrek>bubreg, kabarmak>gabardisa, kaval>gaval, kurabiye>gurabiya, çiftlik>çiflig, saka>sega
k>gy: kiremit>gyeramida
m>n: tamam>taman

Dropping of the letter "H";
h->ø-: haber>aber, hazir>azar, hayir>air, hayvan>ayvan, haydi>ayde, haydut>ayduk, helâl>alal, helva>alva, hamal>amal, hamam>amam, hamle>amle, han>an, harami>aramiya, harman>arman, harç>arç, haslamak>asladisa, hekim>ekim, hekimlik-
>ekimlik, hem>em, hesap>esap, hileci>ileciya, hizmet>izmet, hora>oro, hortum>ortoma, hovarda>ovarda/ofarda, hudut>udut, hizmetkâr>izmekyar, hâsil>asli,

There are 4576 words listed in this article but it says there are probably around 8000 common words in Turkish and Macedonian.

http://oktayahmed.com/m/images/stories/pdf/makedonca_sozlukte_turk_etkileri.pdf

8000+ words, WOW

[johnMKD]

Actually, all this happens because western powers gave all the islands in the Aegean sea to the Greece, even the ones so close to Turkey. So, this is the reason of the confusion. At Treaty of Lousanne in 1924, I know that when Turkish government demanded to get back some of the Aegean islands which close to Turkey, British said that they consider this demand as a reason of new war.

Greece claims to have 12 miles nautical borders just because it has islands right on the ass of Turkey. Also because of the same reason, EU supports Greece to claim whole Cyprus.

The reason is simple;
Western powers prefers to see Aegean sea as a Greek sea and also they wanna completely kick out the Turkish people in Cyprus. So, if they realize both of these, Turkey will be completely stuck and inoperable in both Aegean and Mediterranean sea. All will be controlled by Greece on paper but in reality, all will be controlled by western powers since as always, Greece is just a puppet of them.


P. S: No offense to you or any ordinary Greek citizen but it`s just the reality. They don't support Greece just because they love you. They wanna completely dump Turkey from Aegean and Mediterranean sea, thats why they support Greece in Cyprus. On the other hand, 12 miles claim is so ridicules that even EU doesn't support you that much.

I know that Onur. For sure even the mere existence of all the Balkan States is due to their support. These countries (Balkans) would never have done it against Turkey (Ottoman Empire back then), without the Western support. Yet now, the US seems to be more pro-Turkish rather than pro-Greek..whatever...Regarding the 12-mile issue I just found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegean_dispute

As I said before, I don't care about it that much, Greece and Turkey can find their way through justice maybe.

[johnMKD]

Prolet, i think we found like 30-40th common words for now? So "Chesme" will be 41th, hehe



So i REALLY wonder how many words are common in Macedonian and Turkish no. I just did a google search and found this article written by a Turkish Macedonian in Skopje, BLAJE KONESKI university.





There are 4576 words listed in this article but it says there are probably more than 8000 common words in Turkish and Macedonian.

http://oktayahmed.com/m/images/stories/pdf/makedonca_sozlukte_turk_etkileri.pdf

8000+ words, WOW

WOW, indeed. I also heard that there are more than 13,000 common words between Turkish and Greek. But, that guys is normal after so many centuries of co-existence

[Onur]

Yet now, the US seems to be more pro-Turkish rather than pro-Greek..whatever.

As I said before, I don't care about it that much, Greece and Turkey can find their way through justice maybe.

USA just wanna look like friendly to Turkish people, thats all. Only because they need turkey`s support for all their actions in middle-east. Greece don't have any significance for them anymore after cold war but this is not the case for Turkey. In reality, they are not a friend of anyone maybe except their British cousins.

Well John, i care about this 12 mile issue since i don't wanna see Greek naval force ships when i open windows in my house at Cesme in the morning.




I saw this maps in wiki link;

Current 6 miles borders



Greek claims of 12 miles




As you see here, with 12 miles, Greece can completely block entrance of Turkish ships from Aegean to Mediterranean sea. So, as long as Greece claims 12 miles borders, there wont be any agreement between us, thats for sure.

[Prolet]

Onur, Which are the three Islands that Turkey owns in the Aegean Sea?

We use words like Shukjur, Adzilak,Saraj,Bujrum,Bajrak,rushvet,Zandana these are all ancient words.

Onur, Are you intimidated by the Greek Navy? Surly it is ok to go fishing in the sea, if the Greek Naval Ship stops you can show them your papers and you go through, its no different to crossing a border post.

[johnMKD]

Well John, i care about this 12 mile issue since i don't wanna see Greek naval force ships when i open windows in my house at Cesme in the morning.

And you have every right to care, Onur. I'm now in Italy, but also back in Greece I live quite far from the issue, that's why you find me indifferent. But as an issue is of course very important

[Onur]

Onur, Which are the three Islands that Turkey owns in the Aegean Sea?

Onur, Are you intimidated by the Greek Navy? Surly it is ok to go fishing in the sea, if the Greek Naval Ship stops you can show them your papers and you go through, its no different to crossing a border post.

There are more than three Turkish islands and lots of islets in Aegean sea but about %90 of all the islands given to Greece after WW-1. This is the reason of current conflict. Since Greece got several islets close to the Turkey, they claim that their nautical borders starts from these islets and eventually reaches to Turkey`s coasts.

No, i have never been intimidated by them. After Turkey`s manifesto about it, Greek naval force doesnt go further that 6 miles but there was few accidents b4. They usually obey the 6 miles rule but like once a year they open fire to our fishermen`s boats or arrest them by claiming that they were in Greek waters.

Also Prolet, i already reminded that the ones who chanted fascist stuff in the street of Athens 2 months ago was the Greek naval force, so you cannot have an healthy conversation with them in the middle of nowhere at Aegean sea. So, it`s not like in the territorial border post.

[Pelister]

There is no hope for their Humity and thier souls if they think we will accept thier threats and demands with equal understanding.

True, but those stupid politicians in Macedonia can always put the question of our existence to a vote, can't they? Isn't that the whole point of the negotiation process? To put the question of our exitence or more accurately its destruction into play from a political point of view?

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone in the right mind would acknowledge such terms, let alone accept them. Why havn't the Macedonians simply rejected the terms that have been put to them by Greece, and the E.U, as not worth cosidering. Instead those fkhead politicians (and the lunatics at UMD), have decided we are not already under enough threat, that we have to put the political existence of our nation under threat by embracing a process that is a cart hidden with explosives.