Financial Crisis in Greece

[Sportster]

Sportster, still denying the Macedonian suffering, are we? Keep going down the same path, your time here is almost done.

I deny your propaganda, selectivnes towards imagemaking, bland lies and hatred insuation. I accept and humbly respect the Macedonian suffering caused due to politics, luck of initiative, ignorance by mainstream Greeks, honesty and humility. I feel extremely emotional towards the "first hand" sufferers of the historical misunderstanding as I call it and feel total and utter dislike towards liers and impressionsts that cash in to their relatives suffering in order to promote their views.
Basicaly I like straight shooters and hate swingers. Now go back in to trying to convince Spartan to attack me so you can sytisfy your inner animal insticts of getting two filthy Grks to fight eachother, or simply ban me.
By the way make sure if a Greek attacks me quilifies and by that I mean he has some basic standards such as: Greek passport, Greek residency, Greek tax File Number eyd. I cut you some sluck although I know that you dont have any of the above in a Macedonian version but I will not do that with him. Basically I dislike either disapora fools that pretend to know everything while their weekend activity is "lawn mowing" in our knock of the woods weekend activity is fonicating with the neighbours wife....so please make sure he is a mach for me.
PS: Apologies for the spelling mistakes.

[Sportster]

My "propaganda" is that napalm was a decisive weapon used by the USA in northern Greece to shut down a war which was not being won by the Greek royalists. Whilst you suggest it was used against communist positions in the mountains, I would suggest most of those people effected were not communists but Macedonians fighting for liberation and justice.

You accept that some innocent people might have been killed. But would prefer to think the napalm was used to light cigars of the gentlemanly Greek military.

Just remember, if that border stayed open in July 1949, someone like you would be scooting around shouting long live Macedonia (in Macedonian) right now.

Provide us with some facts over your claim that these people were fighters for Macedonian liberation after all such claim should be based on facts. A registered bettalion headquarters proof of who sypplied weapons and inteligence, some insignia and a flag, or maybe a press release of the time will do.

I accept that among the Greek Serbian and other communist some Macedonians would have existed I also accept that villages might have provided their support, but the fact remains that for such claim as you making there is not much proof exept of course your word.

[Risto the Great]

The internet is a marvelous place at its best. But sometimes it descends into a meaningless pile of drivel when people like Sportster contribute to discussions. I am meant to prove that Macedonians were seeking liberation to a person who refuses to accept historical truths much less the Macedonian identity.

For someone who rides his motorbike all the time through the region, he clearly does not have the trust of the local people if nobody has set him straight on Greece's modern history. You will never be a "nash" Sportster. You will never have our confidence.

And remember, there are no Grkomani in Greece .... only Greek nationals. But there are many many ethnic Macedonians there.

[johnMKD]

And remember, there are no Grkomani in Greece .... only Greek nationals. But there are many many ethnic Macedonians there.

That's true! Personally, I haven't even heard of the term Grkomani...

[Daskalot]

That's true! Personally, I haven't even heard of the term Grkomani...

John, to your knowledge, have you ever heard the term 'Grekomanos' used in Greece? Sportster claimed it to be used.

[johnMKD]

John, to your knowledge, have you ever heard the term 'Grekomanos' used in Greece? Sportster claimed it to be used.

I have never even heard about it. But then he said he was from Athens, no? Maybe, they use it over there. Even more insulting, if they do. Did he explain why this term was used?

[Risto the Great]

That's true! Personally, I haven't even heard of the term Grkomani...

Hi John. The term was common before Greece inherited Macedonia. It was a term used to describe church allegiances in the first instance and then later on to describe some bizarre nationalistic phenomena.

It is still used in the Diaspora and is totally relevant. Why on Earth would ethnic Macedonians in the Diaspora show some allegiance to the Greek nation? Aside from fearing for their relatives, Greece offers nothing to these people.

But to live in Greece nowadays and be called a "Grkoman" is ridiculous. The brand of nationalism developed in Greece does not allow any identity to exist other than Greek. Greek citizens are pretty much homogeneous for all intents and purposes ... until you scratch a little deeper.

[johnMKD]

Hi John. The term was common before Greece inherited Macedonia. It was a term used to describe church allegiances in the first instance and then later on to describe some bizarre nationalistic phenomena.

It is still used in the Diaspora and is totally relevant. Why on Earth would ethnic Macedonians in the Diaspora show some allegiance to the Greek nation? Aside from fearing for their relatives, Greece offers nothing to these people.

But to live in Greece nowadays and be called a "Grkoman" is ridiculous. The brand of nationalism developed in Greece does not allow any identity to exist other than Greek. Greek citizens are pretty much homogeneous for all intents and purposes ... until you scratch a little deeper.

Ok, I see. But to whom does this term refer?

[Risto the Great]

Macedonians who developed an affinity for Greeks.

[johnMKD]

Macedonians who developed an affinity for Greeks.

OK, thanks for the clarification

[Spartan]

@SoM

I do not condone the napalming of innocents, and I do not agree with everything sportster says. I feel that you guys can adequately handle whatevr you consider to be lies from Sportster without my involvement.

My interjection in this thread was directed at Onur, and what I considered to be another attempt to making the Greeks look bad by posting links that have absolutely no relevance to the use of napalm wich you guys were discussing.

You guys know I respect the plight of Macedonians in general, even if there are details i may disagree with. However, having to read about how Greeks are 'arvanovlachs' and albanians, 'cant do anything on our own', 'are created', how happy everyone is at the current state of affairs ain Greece, and other such things that many of the newer members preach everytime i log on has taken its toll on me after these last couple years. How can I defend people who believe such things about my country, and insult Greeks to the degree they are insulted here? Could you defend someone who believed Macedonians are slavs that have nothing to do with Macedonia, and their state was created by Tito? (Which you know i dont believe).
For instance, I disagree with Bill, and he starts a 'Spartans are Homos' thread, and calling my ancestors Albanian. I didnt complain or cry, but did anyone say anything?
You yourself have stated that you dont visit Greek forums, so it may be hard for you to understand how it is for me on a Macedonian forum.

Anyways, just because I am silent, doesnt mean i condone anything.
I honestly believed when I signed up on this forum that the situation between Greeks and Macies was salvagable....I see now I was naive to think so, as their is much hatred which I dont see going away anytime soon.

Still, I would like you to know, I harbor 0 ill will towards the Macedonians, and the stance on the issue I indicated in my first posts on this forum are still my honest opinion.

I thank you and Risto for having my back when need be...for that I will always respect you guys no matter what.

Cheers

I still hope one day, god willing, you and I can meet in Europe and show each other our respective homelands as we have talked about in the past....even if it was in jest at first.

Peace my brothers

[The LION will ROAR]

Op-Ed Columnist
A Money Too Far

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: May 6, 2010

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/07/opinion/07krugman.html

So, is Greece the next Lehman? No. It isn’t either big enough or interconnected enough to cause global financial markets to freeze up the way they did in 2008. Whatever caused that brief 1,000-point swoon in the Dow, it wasn’t justified by actual events in Europe.
Nor should you take seriously analysts claiming that we’re seeing the start of a run on all government debt. U.S. borrowing costs actually plunged on Thursday to their lowest level in months. And while worriers warned that Britain could be the next Greece, British rates also fell slightly.

That’s the good news. The bad news is that Greece’s problems are deeper than Europe’s leaders are willing to acknowledge, even now — and they’re shared, to a lesser degree, by other European countries. Many observers now expect the Greek tragedy to end in default; I’m increasingly convinced that they’re too optimistic, that default will be accompanied or followed by departure from the euro.

In some ways, this is a chronicle of a crisis foretold. I remember quipping, back when the Maastricht Treaty setting Europe on the path to the euro was signed, that they chose the wrong Dutch city for the ceremony. It should have taken place in Arnhem, the site of World War II’s infamous “bridge too far,” where an overly ambitious Allied battle plan ended in disaster.

The problem, as obvious in prospect as it is now, is that Europe lacks some of the key attributes of a successful currency area. Above all, it lacks a central government.

Consider the often-made comparison between Greece and the state of California. Both are in deep fiscal trouble, both have a history of fiscal irresponsibility. And the political deadlock in California is, if anything, worse — after all, despite the demonstrations, Greece’s Parliament has, in fact, approved harsh austerity measures.

But California’s fiscal woes just don’t matter as much, even to its own residents, as those of Greece. Why? Because much of the money spent in California comes from Washington, not Sacramento. State funding may be slashed, but Medicare reimbursements, Social Security checks, and payments to defense contractors will keep on coming.

What this means, among other things, is that California’s budget woes won’t keep the state from sharing in a broader U.S. economic recovery. Greece’s budget cuts, on the other hand, will have a strong depressing effect on an already depressed economy.

So is a debt restructuring — a polite term for partial default — the answer? It wouldn’t help nearly as much as many people imagine, because interest payments only account for part of Greece’s budget deficit. Even if it completely stopped servicing its debt, the Greek government wouldn’t free up enough money to avoid savage budget cuts.

The only thing that could seriously reduce Greek pain would be an economic recovery, which would both generate higher revenues, reducing the need for spending cuts, and create jobs. If Greece had its own currency, it could try to engineer such a recovery by devaluing that currency, increasing its export competitiveness. But Greece is on the euro.

So how does this end? Logically, I see three ways Greece could stay on the euro.

First, Greek workers could redeem themselves through suffering, accepting large wage cuts that make Greece competitive enough to add jobs again. Second, the European Central Bank could engage in much more expansionary policy, among other things buying lots of government debt, and accepting — indeed welcoming — the resulting inflation; this would make adjustment in Greece and other troubled euro-zone nations much easier. Or third, Berlin could become to Athens what Washington is to Sacramento — that is, fiscally stronger European governments could offer their weaker neighbors enough aid to make the crisis bearable.

The trouble, of course, is that none of these alternatives seem politically plausible.

What remains seems unthinkable: Greece leaving the euro. But when you’ve ruled out everything else, that’s what’s left.

If it happens, it will play something like Argentina in 2001, which had a supposedly permanent, unbreakable peg to the dollar. Ending that peg was considered unthinkable for the same reasons leaving the euro seems impossible: even suggesting the possibility would risk crippling bank runs. But the bank runs happened anyway, and the Argentine government imposed emergency restrictions on withdrawals. This left the door open for devaluation, and Argentina eventually walked through that door.

If something like that happens in Greece, it will send shock waves through Europe, possibly triggering crises in other countries. But unless European leaders are able and willing to act far more boldly than anything we’ve seen so far, that’s where this is heading

[Onur]

My interjection in this thread was directed at Onur, and what I considered to be another attempt to making the Greeks look bad by posting links that have absolutely no relevance to the use of napalm wich you guys were discussing.

Peace my brothers

Mate, the other Greek guy kept asking for a picture and documents for a proof for it and pretended like Greece was innocent at that time. So, i wanted to remind him the other crimes committed by Greeks around that time, so he can have an opinion about what might happen during 1940s.

I understand you that you getting disturbed by all this but if someone like the other Greek guy acts like that, then i have a right to bring those on the table.



Also, you gotta ask this to yourself if you get disturbed by this;
Think about how Turkish people feels for 100s+ years false attempts of Greeks to make Turkish people look like animals, barbarians, cavemen to the world???? Yes Greeks are not the only one but you are worst and your school books still contains this kind of stuff to poison young people`s mind. Yes, we get used to that anymore and we don't care much but its still disturbing.

Now you may guess how we feel about your false presentation and how we feel when you present EOKA terrorist as heroes and poor Turkish Cypriots as terrorists to the world???

[Spartan]

Still, what you posted was irrelevant to the topic, and i have the right to point that out

As for your sob-story....stop crying....be a man

thats all

carry on

[Onur]

Still, what you posted was irrelevant to the topic, and i have the right to point that out

As for your sob-story....stop crying....be a man

thats all

carry on

It is the reality, not a sob-story. I hope that you wont deny the attempts of Greece to present Turkey as evil in every opportunity?

Also, if there is a sad story here, it would only be the existence of a country who creates his national pride over false claims and altered historical events(like EOKA issue). This is what being sad.