The Betrayal of Macedonia in Political Statistics

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Carlin15

It wasn't just the "Vlachs" who received new (sur)names. The "literary" Macedonian -ski ending was the system adopted in the Macedonian Republic from 1944, and it impacted many Macedonians as well.

If it was a system, why are there thousands of citizens (many of them Macedonians) that don't have a ski-ending in the republic?

There are a lot of Macedonians who have at least a Vlach grandfather or Vlach grandmother in their family line....

Perhaps, but most do not.

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

If it was a system, why are there thousands of citizens (many of them Macedonians) that don't have a ski-ending in the republic?

I said that this impacted many Macedonians -- not all or most Macedonians.

The following comes from E. Damianopoulos, who is a Macedonian.

URL:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=5Rj...page&q&f=false

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Carlin15

I said that this impacted many Macedonians -- not all or most Macedonians.

Okay, let me ask the question for a third time in a different way. Why wasn't the system applied to the whole country?

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Okay, let me ask the question for a third time in a different way. Why wasn't the system applied to the whole country?

Probably because there was no need to apply the "system" across the board as the majority of the population was Macedonian, with different last name formulas (-ev, -ov).

[I have personally heard of a few cases (not a large sample size of course, and not scientific in any way) that name endings of Bulgarian sympathizers/Bulgarophiles were changed accordingly to -ski. A Macedonian I talked to last year implied that his family's last name was changed to -ski due to the "perceptions" that his family/forefathers were regarded as Bulgarians. I found it somewhat surprising that he opened up to me in this manner because I did/do not know him at all -- and I did not even ask him any personal or leading questions.]

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

If it was a system, why are there thousands of citizens (many of them Macedonians) that don't have a ski-ending in the republic?

Egejci maybe?

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Okay, let me ask the question for a third time in a different way. Why wasn't the system applied to the whole country?

The -ski suffix was widely common in western Macedonia so maybe that's why.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Carlin15

Probably because there was no need to apply the "system" across the board as the majority of the population was Macedonian, with different last name formulas (-ev, -ov).

Are you suggesting the -ski suffix was mostly applied to non-Macedonians? Or that the -ev and -ov suffixes weren't common in western Macedonia, which is where the -ski suffixes are more prominent today? How did the "system" fail to impose itself on certain Vlachs, Turks and Albanians who don't have the -ski suffix?

Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija

Egejci maybe?

No. Many people in eastern Macedonia (where the -ev and -ov suffixes prevail) aren't descended from people who came from further south.

The -ski suffix was widely common in western Macedonia so maybe that's why.

Both the -ski and the more common -ev and -ov suffixes were used in the past, at least formally. Go back earlier and neither were common. In many cases, people just used the name of their father or a family moniker based on a trade or something else as an informal surname (a practice still in use today). Perhaps formality wasn't really critical for a down-trodden and illiterate peasantry during the Ottoman period.

[Carlin]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Are you suggesting the -ski suffix was mostly applied to non-Macedonians? Or that the -ev and -ov suffixes weren't common in western Macedonia, which is where the -ski suffixes are more prominent today? How did the "system" fail to impose itself on certain Vlachs, Turks and Albanians who don't have the -ski suffix

Yes, the -ev and -ov suffixes were present in western Macedonia as well as the -ski suffix (which was apparently more common than say eastern Macedonia). Some Serbs or Bulgarians claim that the -ski suffix was "invented" and applied whole cloth in Macedonia after WWII. They are not aware and do not want to hear that the -ski suffix was very common and popular in certain area of western Macedonia long before WWII.

Anyway, from what I can tell you the -ski suffixes were applied to all, Macedonians included. If you're asking me for percentage breakdown, details, etc. I don't have that information nor have I claimed anything one way or another.

The reason why the "system" failed to impose itself on certain (most?) Turks and Albanians is because they openly and actively rejected it. As far as the Vlachs are concerned, it's a different story. Vlachs were Christians and intermarried with Macedonians a lot, and decided to accept the new names without fuss. Vlachs participated in Ilinden and were active in building the Macedonian nation and state. Many Vlachs nowadays (since the independence of Macedonia) are starting to use and change back to their traditional surnames. Most arguably choose/chose to leave their official -ski names unchanged to this day.

[Niko777]

I want to point out 2 items related to this discussion:

1. Nestoroi is the same as Nestorovi. (V) was lost in many western Macedonian dialects, meaning -oi suffix is actually -ovi (plural of -ov).

2. A 1914 Greek electoral census from the village of Buf, Lerinsko (which I already posted in other parts of this forum) revealed many families with last names ending in -ovski and -ski.