Macedonia and Bulgaria: Political Relations

[fyrOM]

One would say about time. There are losses in sales and registration let alone the theft of vehicles to fuel the illegal trade.

But one would need to taper the preceding statements by checking that this is not going to create an overpriced rip-off merchants inside Macedonia. If the licences to import vehicles into Macedonia are expensive few will be able to do this and will then become robber barons holding the population to ransom.

A similar case in point is Australia where cars cloths and other items are considerably more expensive than the usa and Europe. The old line which is wearing very thin is that the distance we are adds significantly to the cost. Funny enough with the internet more and more people are buying directly from the usa and even with shipping are making considerable savings. It is larger items like cars which make it difficult to follow the internet route.

In the whole I would say it sounds like a good thing but it depends how the government is going to make it work.

[Makedonetz]

A newspaper depicting our country as this The Macedonian paper Utrinski Vesnik has reported that the FYROM government will not change its decision. Shouldn't be taken worth a grain of salt. Hell maybe vehicles in Bulgaria are going dirt cheap! I Don't see them making a problem with the discrimination that happened in Halkidiki

[Prolet]

We all know that these people are Macedonians who sold their souls for a 500 euro car from Bulgaria. What do they think we are a banana republic? You buy a car from another country then you register it, this is the same law everywhere the customs were lowered and taxes were scrapped (Up to 3000 euros) and they are looking at ways to lowering the so called Green Card which is something they really need to look at its an insurance which allows you to drive out of country, in all other countries its lot cheaper and so forth.

There is no doubt that the Macedonian Government needs to look at this issue in order to be more competitive, however if you are going to buy a car from another country and you live in Macedonia you have register it with Macedonian number plates. Try importing a car into Australia with foreign number plates in Australia they probably wont let you drive it here.

As for the protest, they drove 10 cars infront of the Vlada, they were lead by Dragi Karov from Veles who is a well known Bugarofil who made a statue of Todor Aleksandrov on his front lawn.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

Buying and registering your car in Bulgaria is a sign of one's self-determination as a Bulgarian.

I guess the tatars are smarter than I thought. Anyone got a 39IQ Mongol trophy for them?

[Prolet]

Onur, Could it be that Bulgaria is changing its policy towards Turkey?



PLAMEN YOTINSKI AND VESSELIN ZHELEV

Today @ 08:19 CET

Bulgaria's Prime Minister Boiko Borisov has pledged support for Turkey's accession to the EU in a move likely to irritate his main European mentors, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and France's President Nicolas Sarkozy.

During a joint news conference on Monday (4 October) with his visiting Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Mr Borisov argued in favour of Ankara's EU candidacy and harshly dismissed criticism by France's ambassador in Bulgaria, Etienne de Poncins, that Sofia had failed to take a clear position on Turkey's EU prospects.

The Turkish (l) and Bulgarian leaders shake hands on Monday in Sofia (Photo: Plamen Stoimenov, Trud )

Ms Merkel is at best lukewarm about Turkey's admission to the 27-member bloc, while Mr Sarkozy is openly against it. Both conservative leaders are seen as supporters of the centre-right Mr Borisov because of his stated commitment to purge Bulgaria of crime and corruption. But the Balkan leader, a policeman and bodyguard earlier in his career, has yet to prove himself as a reliable diplomat.

Questions about his views on Turkey's application, implying a dilemma on his loyalty to France and Germany, made Mr Borisov lose his temper.

"It is pointless to reply to the French ambassador," he told reporters with Mr Erdogan standing next to him.

"We are a sovereign state and treat foreign ambassadors with due respect. But in Bulgaria they often overstep their rights when they speak in public," he added, referring to Mr Poncins.

"If our ambassador in Paris tried to advise Sarkozy this way he would be ordered out of France. I am not going to comment on what a state employee has said."

Mr Borisov, who heads a minority government supported by the fervently nationalist Ataka party, ruled out a possible referendum on Turkey's EU accession, thereby rejecting an Ataka demand. Another of his parliamentary allies, the conservative Democrats for a Strong Bulgaria, headed by former Prime Minister Ivan Kostov, opposes Turkey's EU admission too.

During the Cold War, Bulgaria and Turkey were front-line adversaries, divided by a heavily guarded border with minefields and numerous armies on each side.

Relations warmed when after the 1989 fall of Communism Bulgaria restored the rights of its 10-percent ethnic Turkish minority and allowed a party to represent it in parliament. Turkey strongly supported Bulgaria's admission to NATO in 2004. It is a key trading partner for Bulgaria and a possible route for Caspian gas supplies, which would diversify the country's dependence on Russian exports.

[Onur]

Originally Posted by Prolet

Onur, Could it be that Bulgaria is changing its policy towards Turkey?

I don't think so Prolet. Bulgar hick called Borisov is just trying to appear good to us cuz they are trying to lower their energy dependency to Russia by getting gas and oil from Azerbaijan and Turkey. He also thinks about other possible economical benefits for his country. Maybe, he thinks that Turkey will never be a member of EU anyway, so it wouldn't hurt them to appear supportive to us.

Also, after Borisov`s announcement about Turkey`s accession to the EU, his government`s supporters in Bulgarian parliament gone mad. Check these out;

Bulgarian Nationalists Furious at PM for Backing Turkey EU Bid
Nationalist party VMRO has been enraged by Prime Minister Borisov's statement that Bulgaria supported Turkey's EU membership that he made at a joint press conference with his Turkish counterpart Erdogan in Sofia.



VMRO recently collected 330 000 signatures in support of a demand to hold a referendum in Bulgaria on the EU accession of its neighbor Turkey. They have threatened to call up the 330 000 people who signed their referendum petition for nation-wide protests in reaction to the policies of the Bulgarian government on Turkey's EU bid.

Under Bulgarian legislation, if a referendum demand is backed by 500 000 citizens, a referendum has to be schedule; if it is backed by fewer than 500 000 but more than 200 000, the Parliament is obliged to hold a debate and a vote on whether to schedule a referendum.

In a statement Monday made in reaction to Borisov's declaration support for Turkey's EU candidacy, in which he also said a referendum on Turkish EU accession will be on the agenda only after Turkey completes its negotiations, the VMRO party protested vigorously and accused the ruling party of violating the laws.

The three-month period of the submission of the 330 000 signatures within which the Parliament is supposed to vote on whether to hold such a referendum is expiring on October 14, and no respective debate has been scheduled.

"If this vote does not take place, this will be a brutal and abrupt violation of the law for the direct participation of the citizens in state and local government," the VMRO party said.

"We are not insisting on holding a referendum on Turkey's EU accession today or this year. We demand that the law is obeyed, and that we know if a referendum will be scheduled or not. We suggest that the Parliament schedule such a referendum for the day after Turkey closes its last chapter from its EU accession negotiations," the nationalists stated.

They further slammed Borisov for materializing their fears that he and Erdogan will strike a backstage deal.

According to VMRO, Turkey's EU membership will mean a de facto liquidation of the Third Bulgarian State.

"Given the lack of efficient obstacles before Turkish capital, the entire Bulgarian economy will end up in Turkish hands. Not to mention the unresolved issues such as the billions that Turkey owes Bulgaria under the Ankara Treaty of 1925 as compensations for the properties of the Bulgarian refugees who fled European Turkey," the nationalists say.

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=120782

Unresolved issues??? Turkey owes billions to Bulgaria??? These people are ridiculously stupid. Bulgars invaded the city of Edirne at Balkan war and then we kicked their asses out from eastern Thrace in about 6 months. Apparently , they say that few 100 Bulgars had to leave eastern Thrace along with Bulgar soldiers and now these clowns demand 15+ billion dollars compensation from us. If the properties of ~100 Bulgars costs 15 billion dollars then the properties of million Turks who had to leave Bulgaria at Balkan war and 350.000 more in 1989 should cost trillion dollars. How about we demand compensation from Bulgaria then?

Bulgaria PM Slammed over Support for Turkey's EU Bid


Nationalist leader Volen Siderov and all the MPs from his party appeared in parliament dressed up in a T-shirt with an inscription, reading: “Ataka Says No to Turkey's EU Entry”.


Bulgaria's nationalist Ataka party has condemned the prime minister's vowed support for Turkey's accession to the EU, despite being his staunchest supporter.

"Not a single prime minister has the right to talk about this issue on behalf of the people", the nationalist leader Volen Siderov said from the rostrum on Wednesday as the MPs debated the first no-confidence motion against the center-right government, headed by Boyko Borisov.

Volen Siderov, dressed up in a T-shirt saying "No" to Turkey's accession to the European Union slammed Erdogan's visit to Bulgaria as "illegal" and made a pledge to voice openly his criticism when the government makes a faux pas.

During the visit of Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan to Sofia on Monday, Bulgaria's Prime Minister spoke in favor of Ankara's EU candidacy and showed his irritation over the criticism by France's ambassador in Bulgaria, Etienne de Poncins, who claims Sofia has no clear position on Turkey's EU prospects.

Borisov also ruled out a possible referendum on Turkey's EU accession, for which Ataka has been demanding.

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=120851

Borisov invites Erdogan to Bulgaria and Ataka`s leader says "Erdoğan`s visit to Bulgaria is illegal"!!! WTF is that means?





And here is a comment of a Bulgarian columnist;

Turkey, Hands Off Bulgaria's Affairs, Will You?

If Turkey ever joins the EU, it will most likely one day be its most important power center. On the other hand if it does not, it will be a neighboring power center that the EU will have to deal with carefully.

In the first case, Bulgaria will very likely be dominated by its powerful neighbor, and in the second – its border with Turkey might turn out to be a new dividing line of civilizational proportions.

In either way, the answer of the whole "Turkey-in-the-EU-or-not-question" will be a decisive one for Bulgaria's future. Neither of these scenarios should necessarily have negative connotations but all of them must be considered.

Monday's meeting between Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borisov and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was intriguing in the sense that the two state leaders demonstrated mutual respect and understanding on all possible issues.

Of course, in international politics, you often demonstrate one thing while having other goals and intentions. As goes the classical realist dilemma in international relations, despite all niceties Bulgaria has no way of knowing whether Turkey wants to be a benevolent, though more powerful, neighbor, or whether its rise should be a matter of serious concern. Thus, just to be on the safe side Bulgaria had better assume the second scenario, as state actors have been doing in international politics since their inception.

Monday's demonstration of good will and good neighborliness is all the more interesting given the actions of Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borisov at the Balkan leaders' dinner hosted by Turkey in New York City during the recent UN General Assembly session.

The dinner allegedly turned out to be organized in a fashion that demonstrated Turkey's economic and political weight. This was further manifested by the way certain leaders of smaller Balkan nations – Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Albania – acted at the event literally kowtowing to Turkish President Abdullah Gul.

Bulgaria's Borisov, on the other hand, appeared to have been annoyed by the fact that the state leaders were "not treated as equals." He did not even rise to welcome the host who came late; he made a hasty speech promising to help all those who sought his help in order to join the EU, then went straight to Gul, told him he had more important business, and left, leaving behind Foreign Minister Nikolay Mladenov.

The reactions to Borisov's behavior in Bulgaria have ranged from admiration to criticism for failing to appreciate the warm welcome of the host. His demonstration appears to have been unnoticed (deliberately or not) by the press and public in Turkey, though probably not by the Turkish government.

This is not the first time the former top policeman causes uproar in the Bulgarian-Turkish ties. During his visit to Ankara in early 2010 he literally scolded the Turkish government for supporting the ethnic Turkish Movement for Rights and Freedoms (DPS) of Ahmed Dogan in Bulgaria, and urged it to sever all ties with it. Back then, Turkish PM Ergodan left these comments with no reaction.

On Monday, Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said the Chief Mufti issue was a purely Bulgarian affair and Turkey had no intention to meddle – for which he got thanks from Borisov. The mind boggles - how did it ever come into question that the election of the Chief Mufti of the Bulgarian Muslims was not a purely Bulgarian affair?

The Chief Mufti issue and the state of the Muslim community is just one permanently hot topic in the Bulgarian-Turkish relations. Others include the fate of the ethnic Turkish minority (the two are not one and the same thing), and even the role of the ethnic Turkish party DPS – which – even though it appears to be using its "Turkishness" only in order to garner political and economic gains for its leadership – is seen by many in Bulgaria as Turkey's "fifth column."

To put it briefly and bluntly, despite all niceties and – probably occasionally sincere – good will and well-wishing – the Bulgarian leadership will most likely find itself forced to seek ways to balance a resurgent Turkey – however small, scarce, and inadequate Bulgarian resources for that might be.

Whether Bulgaria would have to go down that road will largely depend on Turkey's behavior as an emerging regional hegemon. Is Turkey going to be a benevolent regional superpower, and if so, can it really make its neighbors such as Bulgaria believe that?

Within the European Union, the security dilemma mentioned above, which is a basic tenet of the realist theory of international relations (i.e. being constantly suspicious of the other state's intentions) is believed to have been eliminated. Yet, the fact that many – including vocal nationalists in Bulgaria – fear dominance even by an "EU Turkey" seems to be indicative enough – of their fears but also of Turkey's image.

In the book "The Historian" by American author Elizabeth Kostova, a Turkish character (who nonetheless sends greetings to a Bulgarian acquaintance), says that nobody will ever hate the Turks more than the Bulgarians because the former shattered the medieval empire of the latter.

Intriguing as such generalizations might seem, they are actually far from the truth. It should be known by everybody – especially by the Turks themselves – that while Bulgarians are well-aware of the history of their ancestors in Ottoman Turkey – the regular Bulgarian views the ethnic Turks with great respect. Bulgarians have always respected the Turks for being very hardworking, very diligent, very shrewd, and very welcoming people.

In Bulgarian folklore – as in the folklore of many other nations – Nasreddin Hodja is a prominent figure. However, unlike the folk tales of other people's, he has a Bulgarian version, Hitar Petar ("the Shrewd Peter"). While Nasreddin Hodja and Hitar Petar often compete in their ingenuity and tricks, more often then not, the two of them come together to fight injustice on part of the authorities – obviously, the Ottoman authorities.

During my travels, I distinctly remember two cases of stumbling upon Turkish people – one in New York City, and another one in Berlin – who were extremely happy to meet me because I was from Bulgaria. All that is to suggest that on the level of the regular people – at least in Bulgaria (insane fascist maniacs excluded) – there can be no animosity against the Turkish people as such. Bulgaria as a state has got no reason and no desire to be in conflict with Turkey (or any other neighbor for that matter).

Yet, should Turkey keep marching down the road of the neo-Ottomanist agenda, many nations, including Bulgaria, will start thinking of ways to resist to best of their ability, of which the storming out of their prime minister will be the most innocent one.

This effect will eventually get through even if Turkey employs a large amount of soft power in order to "soften" the ground; for example, the massive promotion of Turkish soap operas in Bulgaria in the past 2 years (a market previous occupied by hardcore Latin American soaps) is viewed by many as a manifestation of Turkey's lurking ambitions for dominance and influence by using cultural means.

Bulgaria can probably find some decent ways to try to balance Turkey if it decides that the latter is really starting to meddle in its internal affairs – as many Bulgarians have suspected for the past 20 years. Clearly, Bulgaria has no way of balancing alone Turkey, which is emerging as one of the regional giants of the 21st century. Even today's bankrupt Greece, which is larger, more populous, and more wealthy by Bulgaria, has no way of taking up such a task. But there are other ways to do that – primarily by seeking outside support.

From 1878 till 1991, with some interruptions, Bulgaria has balanced Turkey with Russian aid and Russian (or Soviet) security guarantees. Today, it might have to resort to seeking to boost the unity of the EU in order to get such foreign help, or to be an even firmer US ally. (Interestingly, a scenario elaborated in the Russian press says that Bulgaria and Romania will replace Turkey as the top US allies in the Balkans, and will seek "regional domination" empowered by their alliance with the Americans.)

Should such a balancing scenario unravel, God forbid, the Bulgarian-Turkish border might end up being a new frontline in a Huntington-like civilizational divide.

But at the end of the day, it all boils down to the fact that no matter how large and powerful it becomes, Turkey must be asked politely to please keep its hands off other nation's business. Even though the hopes that Turkey won't seek to transfer its growth into influence and dominance abroad might seem naïve, it is still up to its leadership to really make it clear which way its going to go, and if the good will expressed by popular Turkish leader Erdogan in Sofia is sincere.

Author: Ivan Dikov

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=120821

This guy is really funny According to him, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Albania leaders kowtowing to Turkey. Why and when? Did you ever see or feel Turkey demanding unusual stuff from Macedonia or interfering your country in a bad way? and since when Macedonia, Albania, Bosnia leaders bowing to Turkey? I think this is jealousy at worst. IMHO, they behave like this cuz Bulgars cant tolerate other Balkan nations having good relations with Turkey. They are just envy about this.


Also it`s rather strange to read that this Bulgar journalist says that Bulgaria cant handle Turkey alone, so they have to get help from EU or US. I think these people will never get away from being vassals to foreign powers. He openly says that Romania and Bulgaria can be new puppets of USA in the region and thats how they can build a barrier against Turkey. This is stupidity at best. While it`s weird that he is asking for his country to be a puppet of USA, it`s also unrealistic plan too.

for example, the massive promotion of Turkish soap operas in Bulgaria in the past 2 years (a market previous occupied by hardcore Latin American soaps) is viewed by many as a manifestation of Turkey's lurking ambitions for dominance and influence by using cultural means.

Ohh yes, they better investigate this further cuz we might even use hidden frame technic and put a secret extra frame to the film which sends a message to the subconscious of all Bulgars like "BOW TO THE TURKS, PRAY TO ALLAH" haha

Why the fck they buy these series and show it on their tv channels then? Turks puts a gun to their heads and force Bulgars to buy these Turkish series?

[Louis Riel]

If those people are VMRO...i am Jesus Christ.

Turkey is in Europe.....whether those morons like it or not.

[Onur]

Originally Posted by Louis Riel

Turkey is in Europe.....whether those morons like it or not.

No offense, i know you wrote this for good intentions but even tough Turkey is in Europe for ~1000 years and shaped European continent historically but we can never be a part of an empire ruled by western Europeans. We don't have enough common values with them and we are culturally so different from western Europeans. Bulgars can live happily by being their vassals or Greeks can act like they are western Europeans even tough they are easterners as much as Turks BUT Turkey cant do neither of these.

[Louis Riel]

Im not offendedI was making a remark in regards to the shirts those numbskulls are wearing.The last time i looked Turkey was in Europe(at least part of it) and so is Macedonia.....whether they are part of the EU or not...they are still in Europe.The EU can go fuck itself with its holier than thou attitude....thats my opinion.

Id rather the people in the Balkans and Turkey formed their own alliance/supranational state/whatever(wishful thinking)....that would be a real power that could contend with the West and Russia.I guess the folks would rather scramble for the crumbs though instead of making their own bread.

[sf.]

Western Europe think that Europe ends at the Balkans, including Greece, and at the German eastern border.
Greece of course believe that Europe ends at her northern and eastern borders.
Slovenia believes it ends at her border with Croatia, while Croatia believes it to be at the borders with B&H, Serbia and Montenegro.
For Poland it ends at Ukraine.
Bulgaria insists that they are the last European nation before the wilderness begins, and on goes the prejudice and hatred that festers beneath the surface of that lovely place known as Europe.