The Macedonian Minority in Bulgaria

[George S.]

Chiche you are misconstruing what is said you are often running away & misconstruing something by saying it's offensive.The sad fact many times both RTG & Tom paint a stark picture of reality from an independent view.Whether you like it or not that is the human condition of reality in macedonia.You cannot i'm sure no matter how hard you choose to ignore it change black to white or white to black .You are trying to moderate & say how it's not so bad & you say how you readily accept one thing after another but those things are so anti macedonian& are anti cause.So you should prick up your ears when RTG or TOM is telling you about the macedonian question as relating to the macedonian people's condition & their human rights.You find it hard to accept what is happening in macedonia,because of your particular mindset.WE have to state the truth whether we like it or not .Macedonia cannot turn the clock back because it has made the choice to behave in a certain way,there are many things affected in ROM that even the ROM govt doesn't know or is hiding from things.The people themselve are lost in their own mindset of self imposed slavery.What we need is a revolution of the mind & then liberating both mind & body cause the people to have a revolution.Maybe then people will see what is going on & what it means to fight for freedom.I'ts no use talking to people who have been fyromised.That is they have accepted the causes & beleifs of fyromians.So in effect everything has become topsy turvy for macedonia & it's people.One would expect there would be a sort of self loco motion to drive the people forward.You would think the people would awaken & revolt on the ROM govt.Perhaps but something must start to get the ball rolling.Lets not hide from facts the very things that are stated to you plainly by Messers RTG & TOM you seem to shy away & we have noticed before that people actually favour anti macedonian without realising.The thing is you have to realise & be imbibed with the truth,learn to accept what is happening to macedonia before you can save macedonia.The responsiblity is to each individual.

[Chiche]

The Truth??? Who's Truth??? Many differing Truths are out there!!!

The fact is no one knows the truth!!

Do not TELL people on the forum, what you believe to be the truth. Put your case across in a intelligent way without abuse, THEN LET US MAKE UP OUR OWN MINDS, whether we choose to believe your TRUTH.

[Risto the Great]

Chiche, that has all been done for years now.
What sort of person would come in with all guns blazing without reading all of the background.

You didn't even read our Macedonian Cause before you started making all kinds of assumptions about us. Imagine comparing us to other organisations who cannot even tell you what they are committed to.

[Chiche]

You misunderstand me, I like you Lad's-Your my kind of people

[Risto the Great]

It has been pretty easy to misunderstand you to be honest.

I haven't been a lad for years Chiche notwithstanding the fact that I have clearly retained my exquisite good looks.

[George S.]

The fact is chiche you don't have sense of beleif.What do you think is the truth.In all the things that's happening there can be one set of truth either you are for the cause or your not.Either you are pro macedonian or not you are anti.So if you don't beleive on anything then you aren't going to contribute much to macedonia.If you are a realist well you could start a revolution & put macedonia on track.It's very easy to work out who is telling the truth just read what they have accomplished in macedonia.Don't give them the automatic stamp of approval,query everything don't assume it's right.The truth is the straight & narrow path that leads to the truth not a wide various opinion truths.Truth cannot be bargained for or to say near enough is good enough.

[George S.]

Reasons why Macedonia can't have normal relations with Bulgaria



http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/21987/49/



Although one can certainly come up with several fold more reasons why Skopje and Sofia have not been able to normalize their relations, here are ten that come to mind right from the start.

1. Macedonians at home spent majority of their WW2 fighting against Bulgarian soldiers. Macedonian partisans engaged the Germans mostly in major battles outside of Macedonia, in other parts of the then Yugoslavia.

2. In 1913 Macedonia was split in 3 parts (Vardar, Pirin, Aegean). Due to the split, the remains of one of the greatest Macedonian revolutionaries Goce Delcev (died 1903) found itself on the 'other' side, in present Bulgaria. Official Sofia in 1946 sent Delcev's remains to the rightful owners, the Government of Macedonia in Skopje. Today official Sofia claims him as "Bulgarian". Why give him up if he is your own, and equally important, why claim him 60 years later?

3. Bulgaria while protecting their Jewish minority, was responsible for rounding up and sending to concentration camps the Jewish population from Macedonia and Thrace (present Greece). Macedonia lost 98% of its Jewish population. All of the gold, art and jewelry was stolen by Bulgarian soldiers and sent to Sofia. Just a fortnight ago (October 7th), Jewish leaders from Israel told the Bulgarian Government in Sofia that "saving your own Jews but murdering others still makes you a murderer". There goes Sofia's hope that everyone has amnesia.

4. Official Bulgarian census in 1946 listed 252,908 Macedonians living in Bulgaria. Official census in 1956 somehow listed less, 187,789 ethnic Macedonians, concentrated in the Pirin region. In 2011, official Sofia counted 1,600 Macedonians! For the next census, Sofia will follow Athens and claim it has no minorities.

5. When visiting Bulgaria, in particularly major holiday destinations, one is able to view dozens of TV channels from all of Bulgaria's neighbors. The only channels missing (scrambled) are those from Macedonia.

6. Just like in Greece, Bulgaria too does not allow Macedonians to register a political party and take part in Parliament elections. The Macedonians have taken Bulgaria to Human Rights court in Strasbourg twice, won both times, but still cannot register their party.

7. Bulgaria first recognized Macedonia, at the same time did not recognize the language which automatically created tensions between the two countries.

8. Bulgaria wanted to help Macedonia during the Greek embargo and opened its port in Burgas to Macedonian companies. This nice gesture was conditioned - official Skopje must stop its communication with Macedonians in Bulgaria.

9. After 2000, Bulgaria decided to create a "minority" in Macedonia, Serbia, Moldavia (even Albania) by issuing passports and citizenships to Macedonians. According to Macedonians and Serbs who have received Bulgarian passports, the entire procedure was done in less than two months involving little to no documentation at all.

10. A typical court case of divorced parents seeking custody of their daughter turned into a circus case because the mother (Spaska Mitrova) had recently received a Bulgarian passport. Mitrova's new passport meant the bombastic arrival of two dozen journalists from Sofia at a small court house in Gevgelija to cover the case and cheer on Spaska Mitrova.

[DedoAleko]

The problems with the bolvars are yet to columinate.

google translate:

Big NO from Bulgaria to Macedonia to join EU


Can not give evrosertifikat government in Skopje, which systematically imposing an ideology of hatred towards Bulgaria. In the Republic of Macedonia has shown one-sided interpretation of history in a strongly nationalistic spirit, discriminating against citizens of Bulgarian feeling and there are many administrative barriers for Bulgarian business accused Plevneliev before Fillet


Bulgaria will block Macedonian евроинтегративен process if the European Commission does not push Skopje to work on good neighborly relations with Sofia. After Athens, and our eastern neighbor present deed authenticated "red lines" to neighbors. Bulgarian President Rosen Plevneliev took advantage of the meeting with the EU Commissioner for Enlargement and Neighbourhood Policy Stefan Fule accused Macedonia of its own way interprets the history and leading anti-Bulgarian policy, according to Bulgarian media. According to some of the media, in front of the high guest from Brussels, Plevneliev said a big NO to Macedonia's membership in the EU, because of its policy towards Bulgaria. Said that the Union should take into account the Bulgarian-Macedonian relations ahead of a possible EU membership of the country.
- We can not give evrosertifikat government in Skopje, which systematically imposing an ideology of hatred towards Bulgaria. Authorities in Macedonia will unlock perspective evrochlenstvo, through propaganda and marketing campaigns, but through genuine reform and neighborhood activities. Do not deny their European perspective, help and support, but they still are not ready, said Plevneliev and added that strategically important for long-term stability in the Balkans, Skopje begin to apply European approach towards its neighbors, without provocation, without pretense and without manipulation.

Plevneliev claimed before Fillet Macedonia discriminates against citizens who declare themselves Bulgarians and even hampers Bulgarian businesses in the country.
- European integration is a guarantor of security, stability and prosperity in the region and that there is no alternative. This support is not unconditional, it is based on the overall fulfillment of membership criteria, and one of the most important of them is good neighborly relations. In the Republic of Macedonia has shown one-sided interpretation of history in a strongly nationalistic spirit, discriminating against citizens of Bulgarian feeling and there are many administrative barriers for Bulgarian business. Bulgaria has always supported the accession of the Western Balkan countries to the EU, said Plevneliev.

Bulgarian President does not agree with neither the EC report on Macedonia. Sharply criticized before Fillet, arguing that the country's progress report does not reflect the role of Macedonia in regional cooperation and the state of bilateral relations between Bulgaria and Macedonia.

Its head of state supported and Bulgarian MPs from the Foreign Policy and European Affairs. Consider that the Macedonian government has a long way to go to fulfill the basic criteria for the EU Neighbourhood and if this problem is not raised when you start negotiations with the EU, they can turn into a "time bomb", reports Bulgarian BTV .
- Can a country strongly wants to join the EU and NATO, and in both directions to be obstacles. On the one hand does not keep good relations with Bulgaria, on the other hand with Greece. Macedonian authorities have to keep a policy that is not planting the anti-Bulgarian feelings among children that they have a negative attitude towards Bulgaria, DPS said Unal Lotvi. (VS)

Enlargement Satisfied words Plevneliev
Fillet: Integration is the best tool for dealing with nationalism
European Commissioner for Enlargement and Neighbourhood Policy Stefan Fule was not satisfied with the words of the Bulgarian President Rosen Plevneliev. Fule said the blockades are not the solution, but integration is the best way to deal with nationalism. Stefan Fule agreed that problems should be solved before the receipt of EU countries, but stressed that the negotiation process should not be held hostage to these problems.
- We all know that FYR Macedonia have to wait a long time before a closed door, waiting for NATO and EU membership. I'm one of those people who firmly believe that it is not good to leave the partners long wait. I believe that integration is the best way to deal with nationalism. There is no doubt, nor to me, nor the European Commission about the importance of Bulgaria to expand. I am here to try to better figure out the interests and fears of Bulgaria. I am here to determine how the Commission could help Bulgaria to open its potential in terms of the neighborhood policy. I'd like to talk and good-neighborly relations in terms of content to meet the Western Balkan countries, so that all neighbors here to feel comfortable in their place, 'returned Fillet Plevneliev.

izvor: http://vecer.com.mk/default.asp?Item...E398A71AA74BC1

[DedoAleko]

President Ivanov answers Sofia's request on "Joint" Holidays


A Bulgarian request sent by its president Rosen Plevneliev to his counterpart in Macedonia on celebrating 'joint' holidays was answered by president Ivanov, revealed his cabinet earlier today .

The Macedonian president responded to Plevneliev by giving him three dates which Macedonia would consider celebrating jointly with Bulgaria:
- Europe Day
- Day Bulgaria recognized Macedonia
- Day Bulgaria and Macedonia established diplomatic relationship

The cabinet of the Macedonian president informed the public of Ivanov's response.
President Ivanov's recommendations to official Sofia are focused on the past, present and the future.
"History ideologization and replacements of facts, as you define them, are a dangerous tool which if abused by politicians for short term interests can cause significat damage, therefore it is best this question is left alone, to the historians", explains Ivanov in his letter.

According to president Ivanov, the entire energy needs to be focused on bettering the present and creating a better future for the generations yet to come as this was an obligation not just for the citizens, rather the region. Ivanov wrote to Plevneliev he is assured that with joint effort, both Skopje and Sofia will strengthen their relationship.

The Bulgarian president in his letter called for turning the good political declarations into actual activities, to work together for the stability and prosperity of both countries, together. Plevneliev also asked for joint celebration of historical events.

Despite Plevneliev's letter for friendship, during the past two days the Bulgarian president complained to EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fule about Macedonia's nationalistic rhetoric and discrimination towards people with "Bulgarian feelings", as well as the numerous administrative barriers for Bulgarian businesses.

According to Plevneliev, the EU report on Macedonia was not satisfactory to official Sofia even though the position of Sofia is that all Western Balkan nations should join the EU. Plevneliev added that all states joining the EU must possess the European core values.

izvor: http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/22122/1/

edit: If the admin thinks my last 2 posts don't belong here,do move them in some other thread.

[Risto the Great]

The Macedonian president responded to Plevneliev by giving him three dates which Macedonia would consider celebrating jointly with Bulgaria:
- Europe Day
- Day Bulgaria recognized Macedonia
- Day Bulgaria and Macedonia established diplomatic relationship

A moment of clarity.