Paionia and Paionians

toothpaste · 09-06-2008, 12:02 PM

Who were really these people?

Little is known about them and they are listed mostly either as Thracians or Illyrians.
They inhabited all of the Axios (Vardar) valley as even Homer himself mentions in Iliad.
They are presented there as allies of the Troyans.

After the invasion of Macedonians from Upper Macedonia (circ 700-650 BC) and the establishment of the kingdom of Macedon (capital Aigai) as well as the wars of Alexander I,they were expelled from the lower bank of the river,but continued to have their independent kingdom in what is today (more or less) RoM.
Their capital was Vylazora (modern Veles in RoM).

Philip II of Macedon subdued the Paionians after defeating them during his campaign in 358 BC.
In the 3rd century BC Paionians reestablished their kingdom's independence but in 217 BC,Philip V reconquered the land.

After the Roman conquest Paionia was incorporated in the perfectura Macedonia (as well as part of Illyria,and from time to time Epirus and Thessaly)

Struja · 09-07-2008, 08:37 PM

The Paionians are regarded as descendants of the Phrygians.

Dejan · 09-07-2008, 09:49 PM

Is there much info on any struggle they put up against Filip II, or did they 'integrate' quite easily? Is it possible they are the same people divided into tribes? Anymore info on them?

Volk · 09-08-2008, 05:44 AM

Hey guys, Bylazora was discovered near sveti nikole a few days ago, I had a post in the archeology section.

Hopefully this answers some important questions regarding their relationship with Macedonians

The Paeonians joined Macedonia proper on a few occasions I believe. Finally being absorbed completely into the Macedonian nation after christ.

Either way they are a sure part of our history

sydney · 09-08-2008, 05:50 AM

interesting thread. i've often thought about reading more on the paeonians but have never got there. can anyone recommend an authoritative source/read on the paeonians?

sydney · 09-09-2008, 08:09 AM

what language did the paeonians speak? how did the macedonians communicate with them ... interpreters or not?

Daskalot · 09-09-2008, 08:17 AM

Nice post toothpaste, you are a bucket full of sunshine......

So are you implying that we the Macedonians are descendants of the Paionians and you Greeks living in the Greek part of Macedonia are descendants of the Ancient Macedonians, is it this you are trying to say in a very subtle kind of way?

Struja · 09-09-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sydney

what language did the paeonians speak? how did the macedonians communicate with them ... interpreters or not?

The so-called barbarian language (which the Greeks didn’t understand and called it barbarian), they both knew and understood each other, Alexander had a number of Paeonian Generals in his army, one of them was called General Ariston of Peaonia.

toothpaste · 09-09-2008, 11:39 AM

Only some words and place names survived of the paionian language.
Like tilon ,paprax (fish), monapos (bull) ,Bylazora,Astibos,Doberos.

Some names of gods are also known as Dryalus (Dionysus) and Bendis (Artemis).

Some names of kings too:
* Agis
* Lycceius (also Lyppeius or Lycpeius )
* Patraus
* Derronaios
* Dropion
* Audoleon
* Eupolemenos
* Bastareus
* Nicarchus
And names of Paionian tribes:
* Aestraei
* Agrianes
* Laeaeans
* Odomantians
* Paeoplians
* Siropaionians (or Siropaeonians)

Athenaeus (ix. p. 398) implies that their language was similar to Mysian.(this reinforces the probability of connection with the Phrygians).

Daskalot · 09-09-2008, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toothpaste

Only some words and place names survived of the paionian language.
Like tilon ,paprax (fish), monapos (bull) ,Bylazora,Astibos,Doberos.

Some names of gods are also known as Dryalus (Dionysus) and Bendis (Artemis).

Some names of kings too:
* Agis
* Lycceius (also Lyppeius or Lycpeius )
* Patraus
* Derronaios
* Dropion
* Audoleon
* Eupolemenos
* Bastareus
* Nicarchus
And names of Paionian tribes:
* Aestraei
* Agrianes
* Laeaeans
* Odomantians
* Paeoplians
* Siropaionians (or Siropaeonians)

Athenaeus (ix. p. 398) implies that their language was similar to Mysian.(this reinforces the probability of connection with the Phrygians).

alot of names ending in -os-us-on-s thus they must also be considered Greek.........

09-06-2008, 12:02 PM	#1
toothpaste Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 149	Paionia and Paionians Who were really these people? Little is known about them and they are listed mostly either as Thracians or Illyrians. They inhabited all of the Axios (Vardar) valley as even Homer himself mentions in Iliad. They are presented there as allies of the Troyans. After the invasion of Macedonians from Upper Macedonia (circ 700-650 BC) and the establishment of the kingdom of Macedon (capital Aigai) as well as the wars of Alexander I,they were expelled from the lower bank of the river,but continued to have their independent kingdom in what is today (more or less) RoM. Their capital was Vylazora (modern Veles in RoM). Philip II of Macedon subdued the Paionians after defeating them during his campaign in 358 BC. In the 3rd century BC Paionians reestablished their kingdom's independence but in 217 BC,Philip V reconquered the land. After the Roman conquest Paionia was incorporated in the perfectura Macedonia (as well as part of Illyria,and from time to time Epirus and Thessaly)

09-07-2008, 09:49 PM	#3
Dejan Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sidnej, Avstralija Posts: 584	Is there much info on any struggle they put up against Filip II, or did they 'integrate' quite easily? Is it possible they are the same people divided into tribes? Anymore info on them? __________________ You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood! A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

09-08-2008, 05:44 AM	#4
Volk Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 894	Hey guys, Bylazora was discovered near sveti nikole a few days ago, I had a post in the archeology section. Hopefully this answers some important questions regarding their relationship with Macedonians The Paeonians joined Macedonia proper on a few occasions I believe. Finally being absorbed completely into the Macedonian nation after christ. Either way they are a sure part of our history __________________ Makedonija vo Srce

09-09-2008, 08:17 AM	#7
Daskalot Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In a Library Posts: 4,345	Nice post toothpaste, you are a bucket full of sunshine...... So are you implying that we the Macedonians are descendants of the Paionians and you Greeks living in the Greek part of Macedonia are descendants of the Ancient Macedonians, is it this you are trying to say in a very subtle kind of way? __________________ Macedonian Truth Organisation

09-07-2008, 08:37 PM	#2
Struja Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Beranci Posts: 206	The Paionians are regarded as descendants of the Phrygians.

09-08-2008, 05:50 AM	#5
sydney Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 390	interesting thread. i've often thought about reading more on the paeonians but have never got there. can anyone recommend an authoritative source/read on the paeonians?

09-09-2008, 08:09 AM	#6
sydney Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 390	what language did the paeonians speak? how did the macedonians communicate with them ... interpreters or not?

09-09-2008, 11:39 AM	#9
toothpaste Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 149	Only some words and place names survived of the paionian language. Like tilon ,paprax (fish), monapos (bull) ,Bylazora,Astibos,Doberos. Some names of gods are also known as Dryalus (Dionysus) and Bendis (Artemis). Some names of kings too: * Agis * Lycceius (also Lyppeius or Lycpeius ) * Patraus * Derronaios * Dropion * Audoleon * Eupolemenos * Bastareus * Nicarchus And names of Paionian tribes: * Aestraei * Agrianes * Laeaeans * Odomantians * Paeoplians * Siropaionians (or Siropaeonians) Athenaeus (ix. p. 398) implies that their language was similar to Mysian.(this reinforces the probability of connection with the Phrygians).

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