Paionia and Paionians

[toothpaste]

Who were really these people?

Little is known about them and they are listed mostly either as Thracians or Illyrians.
They inhabited all of the Axios (Vardar) valley as even Homer himself mentions in Iliad.
They are presented there as allies of the Troyans.

After the invasion of Macedonians from Upper Macedonia (circ 700-650 BC) and the establishment of the kingdom of Macedon (capital Aigai) as well as the wars of Alexander I,they were expelled from the lower bank of the river,but continued to have their independent kingdom in what is today (more or less) RoM.
Their capital was Vylazora (modern Veles in RoM).

Philip II of Macedon subdued the Paionians after defeating them during his campaign in 358 BC.
In the 3rd century BC Paionians reestablished their kingdom's independence but in 217 BC,Philip V reconquered the land.

After the Roman conquest Paionia was incorporated in the perfectura Macedonia (as well as part of Illyria,and from time to time Epirus and Thessaly)

[Struja]

The Paionians are regarded as descendants of the Phrygians.

[Dejan]

Is there much info on any struggle they put up against Filip II, or did they 'integrate' quite easily? Is it possible they are the same people divided into tribes? Anymore info on them?

[Volk]

Hey guys, Bylazora was discovered near sveti nikole a few days ago, I had a post in the archeology section.



Hopefully this answers some important questions regarding their relationship with Macedonians

The Paeonians joined Macedonia proper on a few occasions I believe. Finally being absorbed completely into the Macedonian nation after christ.

Either way they are a sure part of our history

[sydney]

interesting thread. i've often thought about reading more on the paeonians but have never got there. can anyone recommend an authoritative source/read on the paeonians?

[sydney]

what language did the paeonians speak? how did the macedonians communicate with them ... interpreters or not?

[Daskalot]

Nice post toothpaste, you are a bucket full of sunshine......

So are you implying that we the Macedonians are descendants of the Paionians and you Greeks living in the Greek part of Macedonia are descendants of the Ancient Macedonians, is it this you are trying to say in a very subtle kind of way?

[Struja]

what language did the paeonians speak? how did the macedonians communicate with them ... interpreters or not?

The so-called barbarian language (which the Greeks didn’t understand and called it barbarian), they both knew and understood each other, Alexander had a number of Paeonian Generals in his army, one of them was called General Ariston of Peaonia.

[toothpaste]

Only some words and place names survived of the paionian language.
Like tilon ,paprax (fish), monapos (bull) ,Bylazora,Astibos,Doberos.

Some names of gods are also known as Dryalus (Dionysus) and Bendis (Artemis).

Some names of kings too:
* Agis
* Lycceius (also Lyppeius or Lycpeius )
* Patraus
* Derronaios
* Dropion
* Audoleon
* Eupolemenos
* Bastareus
* Nicarchus
And names of Paionian tribes:
* Aestraei
* Agrianes
* Laeaeans
* Odomantians
* Paeoplians
* Siropaionians (or Siropaeonians)

Athenaeus (ix. p. 398) implies that their language was similar to Mysian.(this reinforces the probability of connection with the Phrygians).

[Daskalot]

Only some words and place names survived of the paionian language.
Like tilon ,paprax (fish), monapos (bull) ,Bylazora,Astibos,Doberos.

Some names of gods are also known as Dryalus (Dionysus) and Bendis (Artemis).

Some names of kings too:
* Agis
* Lycceius (also Lyppeius or Lycpeius )
* Patraus
* Derronaios
* Dropion
* Audoleon
* Eupolemenos
* Bastareus
* Nicarchus
And names of Paionian tribes:
* Aestraei
* Agrianes
* Laeaeans
* Odomantians
* Paeoplians
* Siropaionians (or Siropaeonians)

Athenaeus (ix. p. 398) implies that their language was similar to Mysian.(this reinforces the probability of connection with the Phrygians).

alot of names ending in -os-us-on-s thus they must also be considered Greek.........

[toothpaste]

alot of names ending in -os-us-on-s thus they must also be considered Greek.........

Ending does not define the origin of a word.

[osiris]

famous paeonian city, bylazora, work out what language that sounds like.

[Вардарец]

famous paeonian city, bylazora, work out what language that sounds like.

Oh you mighty god, oh why just Bylazora? Why don't you take Astibos too?

Wonder why?

We start with Astibos.

We remove the -os, we have Astib.

Now we know that koine didn't had some letter like Ш.

Now add Ш (sh) to it instead of s

You get Ashtib

It already becomes to sound familiar. B and P (Б и П) sound very similar, like T and D (Т и Д) do in the

Macedonian language.

Replace the b with p, you get Ashtip. Now compare it with Shtip (Штип).

Damn, sounds like it's the same city.

Coincidence?

[osiris]

thanks nashi i may be a god but even i dont know everything. the know everything label belongs to one who is truly ignorant, like some of our wannabe greeks on this forum, who know everything about everything.

[Вардарец]

About the Paeonians

Long time ago, i entered a debate with a Greek like Toothpaste, who was convinced that he is descendant from the ancient Macedonians, and that i, person from Republic of Macedonia, a descendant of ancient Paeonians/Moesians from the area.

He was stupid enough to point me to a link, which contained a picture.

This one :



But, after searching that site, i spotted something like this:



When i asked if he would accept that both i and he are Paeonians, he continued with the well known Greek addressing to the Macedonians ("Skopjan" , "Slav" , "Slavovoulgarian") etc etc.



I also remember that somewhere, SoM (Soldier of Macedonian) posted something in the following lines : "Samuil being from the Paeonians of old"

I would kindly ask him, if he remembers to re-post the quote/text piece from the book he was reading.

My overall opinion about the Paeonians

Before the kingdom of Macedonia was formed, indigenous tribes did exist on the territory, calling themselves under different names. Those people were the same people like the tribe of Pelagonians and Paeonians to the north, and similar to the Illyrians (west) and Thracians(east).

Those tribes unified themselves into a kingdom, for a better protection, which they called it Makedon.

Philip from Macedonia, father of Alexander the Great Macedonian, incorporated those tribes into his kingdom. And remember, incorporation was not done to the hellenic city-states to the south of the kingdom, but a bloody conquest.