Justinian the Great and General Belisarius

[Daskalot]

Isnt this strange?

What does a Sclavonic general do in the Byzantine Empire? Obviously he must have been a Roman citizen to become this, how did he manage this when he was just about to run down to the Balkans from the Pripet marshes to slaughter all of the native inhabitants of the southern Balkans...... strange is it not?

Page 479.


Source: A Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology
By William Smith, 1880, page 479.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Slovak, I would like your opinion on this proposed etymology for Belisarius. Could a variant of the word (t)sar have been used prior to the 10th century in Slavic languages?

Wikipedia states:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belisarius#cite_note-0

The hypothesis that he was of Romanized Slavic ancestry, on the grounds that his name is somewhat similar to the Slavic "Beli Tsar" ("White Prince"), has been rejected by contemporary historians, as the word tsar was first used in the 10th century, well after Belisarius' death. Whether the sar- particle nevertheless derives from "Caesar" (as does "Tsar"), or from the earlier etymological roots (sar is "king"/"prince"/"ruler" in various older Semitic languages) is not attested.

[Delodephius]

I heard about the hypothesis that the word "car" [tsar] is older and did not come down to Slavonic from the Caesar or Kesar, that it is of an older IE origin and in fact it originates from the same root that forms a part of the very name Caesar. I think it meant "head", as in leader or ruler. In Sanskrit head is "śir", in English we have a word "sir", and in Slavonic "car"- Tzar. It also reminds of the Sanskrit word for the Sun - "sūrya" and in Slavonic "zora", as the Sun was the highest authority and deity in the ancient world it could be connected to the meaning of "emperor" or the highest of human authorities.

Similarly, it is today believe that the Slavonic word for king - kral, korol, kralj, kráľ, etc. derives from the name of Charlemagne - Karl, in English Charles. But I think it could be of a much older origin deriving from something like the root *kar - "to rule", "to smite". There are no words for a ruler or king in any Slavic language that derive from the IE root *h₃reǵ- (Lat. regere, Gk. ὀρέγω (oregō), Eng. riht/right, Gm. reht/recht, ON réttr, Goth. raihts, Thrac. rhesus, Toch. räk/räk, Arm. arcvi/ardzvi;
*H₃rēǵ-(H₃ón-) / "ruler, king": Skr. राजन् (rājan), Oscan regaturei, Lat. rēx, Gaul. rīx, Ir. ríg/rígh, Welsh rhi, Av. raz, Pers. rahst, Alb. radhë), unless borrowed, but I couldn't find anything on *kar, so I won't go any further on that.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Thanks buddy, that's an interesting perspective.

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Slovak, I would like your opinion on this proposed etymology for Belisarius. Could a variant of the word (t)sar have been used prior to the 10th century in Slavic languages?

Wikipedia states:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belisarius#cite_note-0

I don't like this explanation given on Wiki.

Given that the morphology and etymology of Caesar, Tsar and Sarius are so close, I would say there has to be a connection there. So it doesn't make much sense to say the term 'Tsar' first appeared in the 10th century. If Tsar is a variant of Caesar or even Sarius and it is very possible then the term has far deeper roots.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I guess I was playing devil's advocate for a bit, but it always pays to look at both sides of the story, regardless of how baseless they can be. I like Slovak's little piece of information, it sounds credible.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Are there any attempts for a Latin etymology for this name?

[Pelister]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

I guess I was playing devil's advocate for a bit, but it always pays to look at both sides of the story, regardless of how baseless they can be. I like Slovak's little piece of information, it sounds credible.

I agree, Thanks for that.

All possibilities need to come out. Its better for everyone that way.

[Sarafot]

Probebly Dušan Silni was first who was called CAR,Slovenians use CESAR for king or kralj?

[TrueMacedonian]