How is 'ethnicity' defined?

[Spartan]

@Risto
So when did Koine die, and how long was the greek language out of use for?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Furthermore, I think we are getting into very dangerous areas when we can only bestow an ethnicity on very select groups of people.

RtG, can you please elaborate.

[TrueMacedonian]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Why would you say that?
I disagree.
Furthermore, I think we are getting into very dangerous areas when we can only bestow an ethnicity on very select groups of people.


I think you just told it how it was. You just need the dates now.
Latin/Koine
Resurrection/Katharevousa.
"Re"resurrection/Dimotiki.

If we took SoM's primary list and applied two peoples like Serbs and Croatians then it would become dangerous because their language is not what seperates them. Their religion seperates them.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Even in the case of Serbs and Croats, while language does not separate them greatly, their cultures, ancestry and kinship would differ in many respects. And when the secondary indicators are applied (geography and religion), the distinctions become even more defined.

[TrueMacedonian]

Originally Posted by Spartan

@Risto
So when did Koine die, and how long was the greek language out of use for?

This depends. The language you speak today was used for one half of an empire (Roman) and called Roman. So what is 'Greek' today was called Roman for everyone within the Empire and after the empire was long gone. Linguist Peter Trudgill wrote the following - http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/english/...arvanites.html

So, some have estimated that, when the Ottomans conquered the whole Greek territory in the XV century, some 45% of it was populated by Albanians (Trudgill, 1975:6). Another wave of Muslim Albanian migrations took place during the Ottoman period, mainly in the XVIII century (Trudgill, 1975:6; Banfi, 1994:19). All these Albanians are the ancestors of modern-day Arvanites in Central and Southern Greece.

These Albanians may have learned Romaika along the way but their mother tongue was Albanian up until very recently. Besides is todays language in modern "greece" identical as the ancient Koine? No it isn't.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Have I ever stated that its use was discontinued completely? Can you show me where I have stated this? I don't think you can, so probably not the best to assume, don't you think?

Where did I say you stated that "its use was discontinued completely"?
I know you are a very intelligent guy, and thus could not make such a statement.
I think I may have misinterpreted this - An imposed language doesn't have anything to do with ethnicity.

My apologies.

And I am sorry, but I cannot accept a person who's ancestry comes from a Macedonian-speaking family but was forced to speak Greek in the last century, as an "ethnic" Greek

As you shouldnt, and to tell you the truth, I wouldnt consider them as such either. However, if thats how they choose to identify, who are we to argue? All we can do is snicker behind their backs as Risto alluded to in another topic.

You seem to think that is funny, perhaps you are willing to enlighten me on how Greek makes this distinction, because the bananas I have came across have not been able to.

Ethnicity - Έθνος, Ethnos
Nationality - Υπηκοότητα , Ypikootita or εθνικός, ethnikos

They are your words Spartan, not mine, I don't deny the existence of ethnic Greeks,

Ok, I should of said 'most' instead of 'none'.
My apologies to you and Risto, and any other macedonian that shares your opinion on this. I shouldnt have generalized .

while for you it may be ok to consider the ethnic Albanian Kondouriotes who became your first president as an "ethnic" Greek, and the ethnic Macedonian Kottas as an "ethnic" Greek, both of whom had limited to no knowledge of the Greek language. That is your prerogative.

I never claimed such things.

2 of the primary indicators. Tell me again, in accordance with your explanation above, how exactly is your first president who did not even speak Greek, an "ethnic" Greek? In eager anticipation of your response.

He wasnt! Just like many new nations Kings, rulers, presidents etc were not the same ethnicity as the populations they ruled.
Personally, I dont know why it would matter anyway.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by TrueMacedonian

Besides is todays language in modern "greece" identical as the ancient Koine? No it isn't.

I will respond to you only when you take the word Greece out of quotations. I have refered to you and your people as nothing but Macedonians, and I demand the same respect in return.
If not - eat a d(ck.

[TrueMacedonian]

He wasnt! Just like many new nations Kings, rulers, presidents etc were not the same ethnicity as the populations they ruled.
Personally, I dont know why it would matter anyway.

I agree. It doesn't matter to me if Macedonia has had Vlach politicians in high official positions. But the real point here is not what we think. It's how your people react when they hear of these things for the first time. That's when all the BS starts coming out like "But he Koundoriotis had a greek conciousness" considering the fact that none existed amongst many of your revolutionaries until after the war was over.

[TrueMacedonian]

Originally Posted by Spartan

I will respond to you only when you take the word Greece out of quotations. I have refered to you and your people as nothing but Macedonians, and I demand the same respect in return.
If not - eat a d(ck.

Fair enough. I'll give you that same respect in return. Is the language in Greece today identical with ancient Koine?

[Spartan]

Thank-you TM

As for the question - Of course not.
But can its continuity from the more ancient greek language be denied?
Can the continuity of the modern greek language from Koine be denied?

I dont think so.

Is todays Macedonian identical with the macedonian spoken 1000 yrs ago?
Even the English of a thousand years ago, would be vastly different from todays english I would think.