Best Army-Leader

[777Bitola]

Originally Posted by Bill77

Greece is quit strong militarily. Greece was well suported by the west to become a strong military in the regions Because it suited There own (The West) purpose.

But Claiming being "The Stongest" not acurate. Turkey takes the prize.

Well, there about even in my opinion. Turkey has more soldiers but sometimes a bigger troop count doesn't matter. You can see Greeces influence in the west in their army. There using Apaches instead of Hinds, American rifles, although they have shown an interest in Russian vehicles such as the BMP T.

[Spartan]

^^I agree, although the Greek military is set up to defend, not attack. Can the same be said for the turks army?

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by 777Bitola

Well, there about even in my opinion. Turkey has more soldiers but sometimes a bigger troop count doesn't matter. You can see Greeces influence in the west in their army. There using Apaches instead of Hinds, American rifles, although they have shown an interest in Russian vehicles such as the BMP T.

My post is not to promote Turky or Belittle Greece. Greece are strong and no dought about it. But for the sake reality, Here are some facts and you make up your own mind.

Navy:

Nation - Value - Ships
Britan - 46 - 102
Turkey - 7 - 60
Greece - 6 - 37

http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/how...oftheworld.asp

some other facts but do your own search,

Air force:
Both have very similar equipment, F-16 block 52s making up the majority of the upcoming fleets. But Turkey has a larger personal and fleet.


Turkey's population and manpower is 7 times bigger than Greece
Turkey Financialy is better than Greece
Turkish tank force is very large when compared to Greece

And very importantly, Because of the fights with PKK terrorists Turkey has very experienced troops and officers.

Thats it on this subject.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Spartan

^^I agree, although the Greek military is set up to defend, not attack. Can the same be said for the turks army?

I think If war breaks(hope not) it will be up to air forces and navy's. The border is full of mountains so an attack from there would be lethal for both sides. Now with the Air force superiority, you would have to favour The Turks.

[Bill77]

As for who would be the best Modern Day Army? I would like to see US or the world take on China

[The LION will ROAR]

Here are some more Stats...

GlobalFirepower.com: Strength in Numbers
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Turkey Military Strength
PERSONNEL
Total Population: 71,892,808 [2008]
Population Available: 39,645,893 [2008]
Fit for Military Service: 33,444,999 [2008]
Reaching Military Age Annually: 1,298,979 [2008]
Active Military Personnel: 514,000 [2008]
Active Military Reserve: 380,000 [2008]
Active Paramilitary Units: 148,700 [2008]

ARMY
Total Land-Based Weapons: 6,672
Tanks: 4,205 [2007]
Armored Personnel Carriers: 830 [2007]
Towed Artillery: 685 [2007]
Self-Propelled Guns: 868 [2007]
Multiple Rocket Launch Systems: 84 [2007]
Mortars: 5,813 [2007]
Anti-Tank Guided Weapons: 1,283 [2007]
Anti-Aircraft Weapons: 1,664 [2007]

NAVY
Total Navy Ships: 182
Merchant Marine Strength: 602 [2008]
Major Ports and Harbors: 6
Aircraft Carriers: 0 [2008]
Destroyers: 0 [2008]
Submarines: 13 [2007]
Frigates: 24 [2007]
Patrol & Coastal Craft: 28 [2007]
Mine Warfare Craft: 24 [2007]
Amphibious Craft: 8 [2007]

AIR FORCE
Total Aircraft: 1,199 [2007]
Helicopters: 336 [2007]
Serviceable Airports: 117 [2007]

Greece Military Strength
PERSONNEL
Total Population: 10,722,816 [2008]
Population Available: 5,052,447 [2008]
Fit for Military Service: 4,150,425 [2008]
Reaching Military Age Annually: 104,346 [2008]
Active Military Personnel: 177,000 [2008]
Active Military Reserve: 291,000 [2008]
Active Paramilitary Units: 4,000 [2008]

ARMY
Total Land-Based Weapons: 4,403
Towed Artillery: 12,228 [2001]


NAVY
Total Navy Ships: 118
Merchant Marine Strength: 869 [2008]
Major Ports and Harbors: 5
Aircraft Carriers: 0 [2008]
Destroyers: 3 [2008]
Submarines: 8 [2008]
Frigates: 13 [2008]
Patrol & Coastal Craft: 39 [2008]
Mine Warfare Craft: 18 [2008]
Amphibious Craft: 13 [2008]

AIR FORCE
Total Aircraft: 847 [2003]
Helicopters: 218 [2003]
Serviceable Airports: 81 [2007]

[Bill77]

Great web site Lion. Thanks.

Now lets compare yours with china, And don't forget, all they need is a bowl of rice to keep them going

PERSONNEL
Total Population: 1,330,044,544 [2008]
Population Available: 729,323,673 [2008]
Fit for Military Service: 609,273,077 [2008]
Reaching Military Age Annually: 20,470,412 [2008]
Active Military Personnel: 2,255,000 [2008]
Active Military Reserve: 800,000 [2008]
Active Paramilitary Units: 3,969,000 [2008]

ARMY
Total Land-Based Weapons: 31,300
Tanks: 8,200 [2004]
Armored Personnel Carriers: 5,000 [2004]
Towed Artillery: 14,000 [2004]
Self-Propelled Guns: 1,700 [2004]
Multiple Rocket Launch Systems: 2,400 [2004]
Mortars: 16,000 [2001]
Anti-Tank Guided Weapons: 6,500 [2004]
Anti-Aircraft Weapons: 7,700 [2004]

NAVY
Total Navy Ships: 760
Merchant Marine Strength: 1,822 [2008]
Major Ports and Harbors: 8
Aircraft Carriers: 1 [2010]
Destroyers: 21 [2004]
Submarines: 68 [2004]
Frigates: 42 [2004]
Patrol & Coastal Craft: 368 [2004]
Mine Warfare Craft: 39 [2004]
Amphibious Craft: 121 [2004]

AIR FORCE
Total Aircraft: 1,900 [2004]
Helicopters: 491 [2004]
Serviceable Airports: 467 [2007]

[astibo]

Originally Posted by Bill77

I think If war breaks(hope not) it will be up to air forces and navy's. The border is full of mountains so an attack from there would be lethal for both sides. Now with the Air force superiority, you would have to favour The Turks.

I think that in modern warfare the first step is to achive air superioriti, and than to softhen up the land force of the enemy by constant bombarding, the third step would be advancing of tanks and infantriy suported by the air force. So the qey for victori is achiving air superiority.
There are some examples of nations wining the defencive war with no air superiority (for example vietnam), but thear land would be all burned up..

[777Bitola]

An airforce can be rendered useless with modern AA that are experiences. Seeing as they can shoot you down at 82,000 feet(SA 17)Not that any aircraft can reach that height but they needed to be supported from tanks or IFVs.

[Bill77]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Well, seeing as you chose not to venture outside the edges yourself too much with your reference to Spartans, I feel obliged to list the Macedonians, as the first professional army in Europe and the first conquerors of (most of) the known world at the time.

As for best leaders, I think in many respects Phillip II was better than Alexander, and the mighty military machine known as the Macedonian army was inherited by Alexander from his father.

I would also list Leonidas as one of the best leaders, and also Hector of Troy, as they fought with heart and alongside their men till then end of their lives.

Getting Back to The Macedonian Army And Phillip II, you might enjoy this from Discovery Channel. Note how in the first part the narator distinguish's Macedonians from Greeks.

YouTube - The Macedonians - Discovery Channel -Ancient Warriors 1 of 4

YouTube - The Macedonians - Discovery Channel -Ancient Warriors 2 of 4

YouTube - The Macedonians - Discovery Channel -Ancient Warriors 3 of 4

YouTube - The Macedonians - Discovery Channel -Ancient Warriors 4 of 4