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[Tomche Makedonche]

Originally Posted by vicsinad

Tomche:

I'm not sure if it is a response. Anyone remember the timeline? when did the Constitutional Court give the president the power to pardon criminals: before or after SDSM pulled out of the elections? I think Grujo and co. were trying to find a way to avoid prosecution and investigation since the special prosecution team began its work, and that it's not so much a response to Zaev pulling out of the election, but just a bunch of DPNME party elites looking out for each other.

Either way, it's all too disturbing. Clearly, Zaev knows he can't get into power through a vote (rigged or not). It seems like he won't stop short of throwing the country into chaos to get into power, and Grujo won't stop short of absolute dictatorship to hold onto power.

My understanding is that the original date for elections which was noted on the Przino agreement was 24 April 2016. Gruevski was to resign from his position on the 15 January 2016 on the basis that early elections would be held on 24 April 2016 (120 days after his resignation as stipulated in the agreement). However not long after Gruevski's resignation, Zaev refused to participate on the set date demanding it be pushed back (stating that conditions for fair elections were yet to be put in place). This went against the agreement. When DPNE saw that the elections were unlikely to take place on the original date, they had no option but to agree to postpone the elections, pushing them back to 5 June 2016, shortly after this extension DPNE questioned the scope of the presidential pardon under the constitution, in what I only assume was an indication to Zaev as to what avenue they will take if he again refused to take part in early elections as per the agreement which saw Gruevski resign from his position. As anticipated by DPNE, Zaev once again has now refused to participate on the extended date, proving that he has no intention of going ahead with the stipulations of the agreement and in response to this, DPNE used the presidential pardon which essentially sees the basis of the agreement nullified. In other words, if you won't hold up your end of the bargain, we won't either.

Irrespective of the timeline of events, I agree that what you state is just as much a factor as anything else, they were always going to look for an angle to safeguard themselves from the situation.

As I said, this entire situation, as always, is nothing but a game to our supposed leaders.

[Tomche Makedonche]

For anyone interested, Dedo Aleko actually started a good thread a while ago about the Przino agreement which you can find here:
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=8382

[vicsinad]

Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche

My understanding is that the original date for elections which was noted on the Przino agreement was 24 April 2016. Gruevski was to resign from his position on the 15 January 2016 on the basis that early elections would be held on 24 April 2016. However not long after Gruevski's resignation, Zaev refused to participate on the set date demanding it be pushed back (stating that conditions for fair elections were yet to be put in place). This went against the agreement. When DPNE saw that the elections were unlikely to take place on the original date, they had no option but to agree to push them back to June, shortly after this extension DPNE questioned the scope of the presidential pardon under the constitution, in what I only assume was an indication to Zaev as to what avenue they will take if he again refused to take part in early elections as per the agreement which saw Gruevski resign from his position. As anticipated by DPNE, Zaev once again has refused to participate on the extended date, proving that he has no intention of going ahead with the stipulations of the agreement and in response to this, DPNE used the presidential pardon which essentially sees the basis of the agreement nullified. In other words, if you won't hold up your end of the bargain, we won't either.

Irrespective of the timeline of events, I agree that what you state is just as much a factor as anything else, they were always going to look for an angle to safeguard themselves from the situation.

As I said, this entire situation, as always, is nothing but a game to our supposed leaders.

Absolutely, this is the game they are playing. Zaev argued that he's not participating in elections because DPNE has not started fulfilling its obligations for reforms, but the deeper reason (as stated by several of you) is to stall until conditions are right for him to enter power with the assistance of external means.

I'm waiting to see protestors who are calling for all sides to step aside. I see three main criminals/traitors leading the country into this turmoil: Ahmeti, Gruevski, and Zaev. And I see that each one has their hardcore loyalists. Although I'd like to see a non-partisan Macedonian movement, it looks like one of the two is going to happen: a) violent suppression by DPNME or b) international intervention, leading to Zaev or a EU imposed government (or a combination of both). Both would be disastrous for Macedonia in their own different ways, and won't actually solve anything.

Meanwhile, you'll hear calls from Ahmeti's Albanians, Bulgaria and Greece saying Macedonia is an unstable country and they'll offer their own solutions and threats.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Originally Posted by vicsinad

I'm waiting to see protestors who are calling for all sides to step aside

I think it's fair to say that this is what the majority of us here have been waiting for, especially since it's obvious neither side has any intention whatsoever in working together to resolve these issues, but then again, who is there to take their place?

If there was ever a time for someone else to stand up and be heard, it's now.

[vicsinad]

Most likely related to the migration issue, but in times like these, everything might need to be questioned. Did the aircraft really enter Macedonian territory? If so, was it just an accident? Or is Greece trying stir the waters?

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.p...4&nav_id=97695

Macedonia says Greek military plane violated its airspace

A Greek military airplane entered Macedonia's airspace at 10:30 CET on Thursday, Skopje-based TV Telma has reported.

The media outlet identified the plane as "a Phantom" - i.e., an F-4 - adding it flew about one kilometer into the Macedonian space.

The jet was flying in a group deployed over Idomeni, on the border between the two countries, as part of refugee crisis control efforts in northern Greece.

Macedonian Army sources told the station they registered several Hellenic Air Force flights near the border, while soldiers made "visual observations from the ground" and concluded that one jet had crossed the border.

According to the broadcaster, the army is currently determining how far the plane had flown into Macedonia's airspace.

[DraganOfStip]

Originally Posted by vicsinad

Most likely related to the migration issue, but in times like these, everything might need to be questioned. Did the aircraft really enter Macedonian territory? If so, was it just an accident? Or is Greece trying stir the waters?

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region.p...4&nav_id=97695

Macedonia says Greek military plane violated its airspace

A Greek military airplane entered Macedonia's airspace at 10:30 CET on Thursday, Skopje-based TV Telma has reported.

The media outlet identified the plane as "a Phantom" - i.e., an F-4 - adding it flew about one kilometer into the Macedonian space.

The jet was flying in a group deployed over Idomeni, on the border between the two countries, as part of refugee crisis control efforts in northern Greece.

Macedonian Army sources told the station they registered several Hellenic Air Force flights near the border, while soldiers made "visual observations from the ground" and concluded that one jet had crossed the border.

According to the broadcaster, the army is currently determining how far the plane had flown into Macedonia's airspace.

The Greek army stated yesterday that it would be conducting an exercise today around the Idomeni refugee camp,so these maneuvers were previously announced.
Even if one of the airplanes did cross into Macedonian air space (no confirmation yet from our authorities) I don't think it has anything to do with a deliberate hostile act and could very well be a flight error while turning the plane around.
No incident whatsoever.The story is overblown in the wake of the biggest political earthquake in Macedonia so far.

[vicsinad]

Dragan:

I was thinking that pro-government media could be overblowing it to distract from what's going on.

On the flip side, Greece announced that these exercises were, at least in part, a response to Turkey's continued violation of Greece's airspace, especially regarding certain islands.

[Odi Zvezdo]

Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche

I think it's fair to say that this is what the majority of us here have been waiting for, especially since it's obvious neither side has any intention whatsoever in working together to resolve these issues, but then again, who is there to take their place?

If there was ever a time for someone else to stand up and be heard, it's now.

Prost narod sme....as Makedonci we've never lived up to expectations when it comes to doing something on our own accord...There's always an external pressure making decisions on our behalf...when are we as Macedonians actually going to stand up to the rest of the world and identify ourselves as a sovereign nation who will not take crap from anyone and not listen to the likes of the US and bs organisations like the EU?

[vicsinad]

RistotheGreat mentioned the most fitting situation...government in exile.

[vicsinad]

Meanwhile, Russia is saying that this all boils down to EU causing problems in Macedonia because Gruevski didn't join in on sanctions against Russia and supports Russia's energy positions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sx7JJQ5y1A