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Old 03-27-2011, 11:23 PM   #11
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I don't think the ICJ judges would give this any consideration even if the Greek lawyers were to use as evidence for their cause.
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:25 PM   #12
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Taking Greece to the ICJ court because they won't call us FYROM? Gruevski is a moron.
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by DirtyCodingHabitz View Post
A1 are the biggest traitors. They made this public so the greeks can use this against us.

Couldn't they wait couple of days?
who fuckin' cares...

The greek argument at the ICJ was based on presenting these so called 'violations' by Macedonia in its use of the Kutlesh Sonce...I'm sure they have numerous, equally trivial examples even prior to this event...

The interesting thing will be Gruevski's response and will he step in to force the university to remove the symbol. That then leads to another point, how will the university and students respond...it could be a good opportunity for Macedonia's next generation of 'thinkers' to put their mark on Gruevski's policies and the course that Macedonia wants to take for its future.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:09 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
who fuckin' cares...

The greek argument at the ICJ was based on presenting these so called 'violations' by Macedonia in its use of the Kutlesh Sonce...I'm sure they have numerous, equally trivial examples even prior to this event...

The interesting thing will be Gruevski's response and will he step in to force the university to remove the symbol. That then leads to another point, how will the university and students respond...it could be a good opportunity for Macedonia's next generation of 'thinkers' to put their mark on Gruevski's policies and the course that Macedonia wants to take for its future.
Poenix
Very good point!........and very good opportunity to awaken the sleeping future intellects!
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:16 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
The interesting thing will be Gruevski's response and will he step in to force the university to remove the symbol. That then leads to another point, how will the university and students respond...it could be a good opportunity for Macedonia's next generation of 'thinkers' to put their mark on Gruevski's policies and the course that Macedonia wants to take for its future.
That is a good point.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:22 AM   #16
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Poenix
Very good point!........and very good opportunity to awaken the sleeping future intellects!
...what's the bet its another opportunity lost...?

This now has to be driven by Macedonia's younger generations, it could be a real test of the level of subservience that plagues the country...
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:25 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Pelister View Post
Gruevski is a snake. He has an agenda for the Macedonians, but hasn't told them what it is yet. They'll only find out when its too late. The current 'crisis' has been created in part by Gruevski himself, so that he can present himself as a 'saviour'. Gruevski is meddling with our identity and spreading the popular myth that 'we have no choice'. The fact is the ICJ case is a sham - why take Greece to court for not calling us FYROM, secondly, we have not in fact been blocked from the U.N contrary to popular belief. He is a snake who is lying to the Macedonian people. He is someone who has recklessly and single handedly driven the Macedonian Republic to the brink of political extinction, just so he can maintain his illusory 'saviour' status with the people, who are being taken for a ride every step of his way.
Pelister, What else could Gruevski do? It's easy for us to be critical by living in the diaspora in countries such as Australia and America but put yourself in the shoes of the citizens in Macedonia. I was born in Macedonia and am proud to be Macedonian but Gruevski and his party have no other choice than to negotiate. Ending negotiations would be political suicide for Gruevski and his party. The one thing that brings together the Macedonians and Albanians is EU and NATO membership and without that prospect, we could see more tensions and hate speech that could lead to violence.

Unemployment is a huge problem especially for younger people and people in Macedonia have the belief that NATO and EU membership would make our country more desirable for foreign investors. The EU is the biggest economy in the world and NATO guarantees to protect its members so it could lead to investors being more confident about investing in Macedonia. Now you still have to have efficient policies and avoid what happened to Greece, Ireland, and Portugal.

It would be wrong to say that Gruevski doesn't care about Macedonia. I believe he is a proud Macedonian but he is in a difficult situation. No other country in the world has to deal with a name dispute imposed by another country who is blackmailing us and using its member status in EU and NATO to gain an edge in the negotiations. The reforms have been made and NATO has said we are ready to be a member and the EU gave Macedonia a positive report for two consecutive years but Greece continues to veto us and we are unable to take our rightful place in those organizations.

Just look at the Skopje 2014 project. The government decided to respect our history and make monuments of Alexander the Great, Philip II of Macedon, Goce Delcev, and many others throughout the country. He has embraced our history and has stood up to Greece despite pressure not to build those monuments. The massive Alexander the Great statue will look phenomenal once it's completed. The Phillip II Arena is going to be one of the nicest football stadiums in the region.

As for the lawsuit against Greece, the International Court of Justice is the highest court in the United Nations and a ruling against Greece should help in trying to obtain membership in NATO and the EU. It will look really bad if Greece continues to veto us despite the court telling Greece to respect the interim agreement and allow us join those organizations if we have fulfilled the criteria. The government must stay patient and continue to build good relations with other member states and show how pathetic Greece is to the rest of the world. They live in the past and have caused a lot of damage to the EU for their irresponsible spending which led to a massive bailout. We are a respected country in NATO and even have more troops than Greece.

We are unlucky to be surrounded by enemies such as Greece, Bulgaria, and Serbia who all conspire to damage Macedonia. Do you think that Serbian Crvenkovski from SDSM is a better option than Gruevski? Gruevski is the best man for the job in a difficult situation and we must continue to support him in the fight against corruption and organized criminal. SDSM can continue to boycott parliament because they don't do anything in the first place and are an enemy to our country just like Greece. Those criminals Crvenkovski and Frckovski need to go as far away from Macedonia as possible. They are protecting the criminals at A1 who are being legitimately investigated for tax evasion. That's how Greece got bankrupt with many people not paying taxes. We must continue the uncompromising fight against these criminals and put them where they belong which is behind bars. SDSM was in government when the interim agreement was signed for us to be referred as FYROM? During SDSM rallies, they have as many Serbian flags as Macedonian flags.

During the upcoming elections, I hope the Macedonian people send a loud message to Crvenkovski and his criminals at SDSM that they don't support him and never will. He already did enough damage for Macedonia when he was President and Prime Minister. The public is not stupid and will not buy into his manipulations once again. They have absolutely nothing to offer. They have no ideas and plans and only criticize whatever the government does with help from their fellow criminals at A1. I hope he retires for good from politics after a heavy defeat at the upcoming polls.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:35 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by makalek View Post
Pelister, What else could Gruevski do? It's easy for us to be critical by living in the diaspora in countries such as Australia and America but put yourself in the shoes of the citizens in Macedonia.
Does this intellectual/moral slavery even need to be responded to? Have we not dealt with these very attitudes hundreds, if not thousands, of times on this forum, in our communities and among our people?

These lines qouted above are the mark of intellectual/moral slavery, which lead to physcial slavery. If you want to know how a slave thinks, the above is a textbook example. If anyone actually agrees with those two sentences, then they should seriously question their intellectual and moral integrity.
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:38 AM   #19
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makalek, how much loss of sovereignty is acceptable to you for Macedonia's entry into the EU and NATO...?

You talk about Gruevski not having any other options, Macedonia lacking security and EU membership offering economic benefits to Macedonians...

After two decades of independence the unemployment rate has hardly changed, nearly all of our neighbours and those further afield are NATO members...so who do we fear, who is out to invade us and why has Gruevski put all of his eggs in the EU basket.

I'll tell you what Gruevski could do, he could start making serious efforts to eliminate corruption and providing the necessary conditions for investment in Macedonia so that Macedonia can take advantage of the multitude of trade agreements it already has in place, instead of allowing every motherfucker to steal from the State and to keep its citizens in perpetual poverty whilst promoting some silly yellow brick road agenda to the promised land...
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:54 AM   #20
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makalek, DPMNE has done absolutely nothing to unwind SDSM's actions. In fact, they have broadened them and instigated every last one of the agreements. I am sick of the kind of rubbish like:
Quote:
During the upcoming elections, I hope the Macedonian people send a loud message to Crvenkovski and his criminals at SDSM that they don't support him and never will. He already did enough damage for Macedonia when he was President and Prime Minister. The public is not stupid and will not buy into his manipulations once again. They have absolutely nothing to offer. They have no ideas and plans and only criticize whatever the government does with help from their fellow criminals at A1. I hope he retires for good from politics after a heavy defeat at the upcoming polls.
Why blame SDSM for the crap that DPMNE passes off as nationalism or pursuit of sovereignty? Same rubbish different emblem. If you want a protest vote, why not protest against both?
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