Republic of Macedonia's EU and NATO Strategies

[spitfire]

Spitfire can I ask you, what makes an Italian identity?

I understand the world as a place of cultural differentiation between the people that derives from the area they interact with Nikolaj.

[Nikolaj]

I understand the world as a place of cultural differentiation between the people that derives from the area they interact with Nikolaj.

What would you think if the French started calling themselves Italians? Is the French culture now Italian culture? Who are Italians then?

[spitfire]

What would you think if the French started calling themselves Italians? Is the French culture now Italian culture? Who are Italians then?

Kaili can say the same thing for you then. You are in a segregational mood.
That's because macedonia represents your culture and hers. You simply want to avoid the latter.
Italy and France are two different things. Macedonia and Macedonia is one thing, historically at least. The archaic part is in greek land.

Do you find this threatening? Should you be frightened of Kaili saying she is a macedonian of greek nationality?

[Philosopher]

Kaili can say the same thing for you then. You are in a segregational mood.
That's because macedonia represents your culture and hers. You simply want to avoid the latter.
Italy and France are two different things. Macedonia and Macedonia is one thing, historically at least. The archaic part is in greek land.

Do you find this threatening? Should you be frightened of Kaili saying she is a macedonian of greek nationality?

The problem is that, historically speaking, Macedonians and Greeks were two separate ethnic groups. So the only way one can be a Greek Macedonian is if a person was both Greek and Macedonian.

Greeks living in historic Macedonia are not Macedonians. They are Greeks.

[spitfire]

The problem is that, historically speaking, Macedonians and Greeks were two separate ethnic groups. So the only way one can be a Greek Macedonian is if a person was both Greek and Macedonian.

Greeks living in historic Macedonia are not Macedonians. They are Greeks.

You can't prove that especially when it comes to archaic macedonia where it is probably the other way around.

So fast forward to today, two seperate ethnic groups in an area under the same name, agents of the cultures of that area.

Are you afraid of that?

[Philosopher]

You can't prove that especially when it comes to archaic macedonia where it is probably the other way around.

The other way around? So the very clear pronouncements of Herodotus, Demosthenes, Polybius, et al that the Macedonians were not Greek mean nothing to you?

I therefore beg you all to be on your guard against this danger, and I appeal especially to King Philip. For you the safest policy, instead of wearing down the Greeks and making them an easy prey for the invader, is to take care of them as you would of your own body, and to protect every province of Greece as you would if it were a part of your own dominions. If you follow this policy, the Greeks will be your friends and your faithful allies in case of attack, and foreigners will be the less inclined to plot against your throne, because they will be discouraged by the loyalty of the Greeks towards you. [p .300] book 5.104

Why are the Macedonians excluded from the Greeks? Why is Macedonia outside of Greece? And why is there no language of ethnic kinship found in these passages?

So fast forward to today, two seperate ethnic groups in an area under the same name, agents of the cultures of that area.

Are you afraid of that?

The issue is not fear. The issue is that we have Greeks occupying a land that is part of historic Macedonia. These Greeks living in Macedonia are not Macedonians. They are Greeks occupying stolen land.

[Nikolaj]

Kaili can say the same thing for you then. You are in a segregational mood.
That's because macedonia represents your culture and hers. You simply want to avoid the latter.
Italy and France are two different things. Macedonia and Macedonia is one thing, historically at least. The archaic part is in greek land.

Do you find this threatening? Should you be frightened of Kaili saying she is a macedonian of greek nationality?

Can you see my point? Macedonia and Greece are two separate things much like in the present and in the past. I am not threatened by something as stupid as Kaili trying to justify her Macedonian roots; especially when her justification is as stupid as the hypothetical example of the French claiming to be Italians. If I were to ask her why she is a true Macedonian and I am not, she would begin with the word Slav; and then we go back to the Illyrian/Thracian/Macedonian thread from the other forum section.

[spitfire]

The other way around? So the very clear pronouncements of Herodotus, Demosthenes, Polybius, et al that the Macedonians were not Greek mean nothing to you?

Absolutely. Does self determination mean nothing to you? Since you mentioned Herodotus.
Spare me the scrutinize. They were agents of the greek culture in archaic macedonia.
Unless you think you speak pelasgian Philosopher...

Why are the Macedonians excluded from the Greeks? Why is Macedonia outside of Greece? And why is there no language of ethnic kinship found in these passages?

Archaic macedonia is not outside greece.

The issue is not fear. The issue is that we have Greeks occupying a land that is part of historic Macedonia. These Greeks living in Macedonia are not Macedonians. They are Greeks occupying stolen land.

A stolen land? And greeks living in a part of land you don't think it's greek. To them it is greek land.

Now how about the cultural differantiation and the splitting. Should this be the way of looking at things?

[spitfire]

Can you see my point? Macedonia and Greece are two separate things much like in the present and in the past. I am not threatened by something as stupid as Kaili trying to justify her Macedonian roots; especially when her justification is as stupid as the hypothetical example of the French claiming to be Italians. If I were to ask her why she is a true Macedonian and I am not, she would begin with the word Slav; and then we go back to the Illyrian/Thracian/Macedonian thread from the other forum section.

You my friend have a problem with what others say. Forget that. You are both macedonians OK?
That part, at least to me, is clear because I don't segregate things. You should think of macedonia as having cultures throughout history. That's what has happened.
Your culture and her culture, as different as they are through ethnicity, don't mean that one is and the other is not.
It is very different than Italy and France.

[Nikolaj]

Absolutely. Does self determination mean nothing to you? Since you mentioned Herodotus.
Spare me the scrutinize. They were agents of the greek culture in archaic macedonia.
Unless you think you speak pelasgian Philosopher...



Archaic macedonia is not outside greece.



A stolen land? And greeks living in a part of land you don't think it's greek. To them it is greek land.

Now how about the cultural differantiation and the splitting. Should this be the way of looking at things?

You keep on pulling the self determination card, I don't see any other historian speaking about that specifically and I wonder why; it's a stupid case. You want to apply it to the ancient period where races were far more pure than in the present, and not at this point in time?

Please enlighten me on how Archaic Macedonia is not outside of Greece?

Do you actually believe there were no overlapping ethnic populations in the ancient period?

[Philosopher]

Absolutely. Does self determination mean nothing to you? Since you mentioned Herodotus.
Spare me the scrutinize. They were agents of the greek culture in archaic macedonia.
Archaic macedonia is not outside greece.

Self-determination? Are you insane? Where do the Macedonians self-determinate that they are Greeks in Herodotus?

The only Macedonian who claimed to be Greek was Alexander I. He did not say "I am Macedonian, and therefore, Greek", rather "I am Greek" because "I am of Argive descent". What made him Greek was his Argive descent, not his being Macedonian.

Macedonia was outside of Greece in Herodotus. It is also outside of Greece in Polybius.

and to protect every province of Greece as you would if it were a part of your own dominions.

Obviously the provinces of Greece were not part of Macedonia.

you[/U] don't think it's greek. To them it is greek land.

Now how about the cultural differantiation and the splitting. Should this be the way of looking at things?

You're a delusional Greek. It was obvious to everyone since the day you joined this forum.

[Nikolaj]

You my friend have a problem with what others say. Forget that. You are both macedonians OK?
That part, at least to me, is clear because I don't segregate things. You should think of macedonia as having cultures throughout history. That's what has happened.
Your culture and her culture, as different as they are through ethnicity, don't mean that one is and the other is not.
It is very different than Italy and France.

Yet you can only prove the Macedonians were Greeks through possible self-determination, and disregard the Historians who wrote all the History we read today who say else wise. I'm sure any university would hire you for a physical representation of cognitive dissonance.

[spitfire]

Self-determination? Are you insane? Where do the Macedonians self-determinate that they are Greeks in Herodotus?

The only Macedonian who claimed to be Greek was Alexander I. He did not say "I am Macedonian, and therefore, Greek", rather "I am Greek" because "I am of Argive descent". What made him Greek was his Argive descent, not his being Macedonian.

Macedonia was outside of Greece in Herodotus. It is also outside of Greece in Polybius.



Obviously the provinces of Greece were not part of Macedonia.



You're a delusional Greek. It was obvious to everyone since the day you joined this forum.

Sure whatever you say Philosopher. The Iliad Alexander had under his pillow was written in some pelasgian language you can read through your language, and the macedonian empire did not wanted to be the agent of greek culture. Also there was no Hellenistic period after that.

Yeap, that hurts, I know.

Now about that splitting and cultural thing? Are you going to avoid answering again?
We both know why, so don't make it hard.

[spitfire]

Yet you can only prove the Macedonians were Greeks through possible self-determination, and disregard the Historians who wrote all the History we read today who say else wise. I'm sure any university would hire you for a physical representation of cognitive dissonance.

I answered that to Philosopher. Can you tell me about the splitting?

[Nikolaj]

I answered that to Philosopher. Can you tell me about the splitting?

I'm afraid I don't understand your question nor your answer. What splitting?