Financial Crisis in Greece - Page 53

Soldier of Macedon · 05-06-2010, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnMKD

That's why I'm here, SoM. To learn about our history

Good man, you've certainly come to the right place.

Bill77 · 05-06-2010, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spartan

These hooligans can hardly be considered 'innocent' people Bill.
This is the communistn left rearing its ugly head after years of laying low. The oppurtunity to resurrect themselves has presented itself, and Papariga and friends have grasped it by the neck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill77

And as we speak and while the inocent public are protesting. The corupt criminal Greek government, are discussing further measures.

The ordinary hard working people are innocent that have to suffer for the Past Governments poor leadership. Thats all i meant and i am sure everyone agrees.

Also, i posted a comment (not long before the one above) which was acording to live reports on CNN that it was the ordinary people out on the streets and not the regulor Hooligans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill77

Three people dead in Bank Fire bombing.
With all seriousness, This is getting out of control. What we have (acording to reports) its the ordinary folk that are causing these latest protests. The Regulor anarchist seem to be taking a day off.

But i now dought a ordinary person would have thrown that fire bomb in that bank that killed the 4.

makedonin · 05-06-2010, 06:30 AM

Some People just don't care if their acctions are gonna hurt somebody. I can understand protesting, I would even want that Macedonians learn to Protest, but not on cost of the lifes of others.

julie · 05-06-2010, 06:52 AM

Makedonin, in reference to protests, either your all in or your not.
If there was a worldwide Macedonian protest, I am first in line.
Whatever the risks

Its unfortunate that people do get hurt and dont know how to communicate effectively with the spoken word, which can be very powerful

If someone said to me , today we are going to protest for Macedonia, and there is a risk that you will die, I dont give a rats bum hole for my life, I would go there on principle

Big Bad Sven · 05-06-2010, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

The Greek embargo on Macedonia many years ago had the Greeks cheering for quite some time. Sorry JohnMKD, I do not think the compassion would be returned if Macedonia was enduring significant economic hardship. It is a tragedy that the people of Greece have learned to hate at such a level. It only proves they are victims just as much as everyone else in the Balkans.

Yep, spot on. Those pigs where licking their lips with anticipation and gloating and the prospects of "FYROM" being destroyed or divided.

What about when the evil shiptars where attacking macedonia? Firstly no support was shown or given, and then we had interviews with local "greek" idiots on the street who where gloating and saying that the shiptars would "fix us up".

And then these arrogant sods rejected our help during the fires in the balkans.

They deserve everything they get and i hope the "greek" state collapses and fails. Ironic that it was the racist "greek" peasent and "greek" internet warrior that was predicting that macedonia was soon going to fail during the 90's, and now it appears its there state thats going down the toilet

LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL BABY!

I of Macedon · 05-09-2010, 07:25 AM

Why fellow members of the club should beware of bearing gifts to the Greeks

In political terms, Greece is an ungrateful basket case and a serious underachiever in the EU, writes Eamon Delaney

Sunday May 09 2010

LAST week's violent reaction of the Greeks to the foreign aid package which is supposed to save their budgetary bacon says it all, but the reality is that you couldn't pick a less desirable country to bail out in the European Union than Greece.

Not 'undesirable' in the sense of blue skies, aquamarine seas and sunshine. No, that's all fine. But in political terms, the country is an ungrateful basket case and, in the EU, it has been a perennial awkward customer. Since the moment of their dubious entry in 1981, the Greeks have quite frankly underachieved and contributed very little to the development of the EU. Except problems.

When I was in the UN as a diplomat, it was an open joke: who was minding the door of the club when the Greeks got in? Their attitude was almost always 'what's in it for Greece?' as opposed to what is good for the EU too. When Ireland got massive EU Structural Funds in the Nineties, we built roads and infrastructure, but when similar funding went to Greece in the Eighties, it was siphoned away through corruption and graft, much of it under the Pasok socialist regime -- and this waste has contributed to the mess the Greeks are in today.

The irony is that the Greeks have been the most vociferous opponents of keeping out of the EU their old enemy Turkey and yet there are aspects of modern Turkish society and its robust economy which show up Greece for the sclerotic, over-unionised backwater that it is. Try telling that to Lucinda Creighton the next time she talks about keeping the poor old Turks out of the EU.

The Greeks' attitude to foreign policy used to be that the Turks were to blame for everything and they wasted no opportunity in raising their bilateral dispute, waving it around like a 'sore thumb'. It was something we had learned to stop doing with Britain and Northern Ireland where you only end up boring the rest of the world to death. But such is the hot-headed attitude of the Greeks to their national issues that they almost went to war twice with Turkey in the last 20 years. We're talking full scale war, among fellow Nato members. How would German taxpayers feel about funding that?

Of course, in the cynical world of diplomacy, this has some merit for the Irish. As one salty old ambassador put it, "my boy, as long as they are in the club, we will always look good!" The reality was that Greece was quickly admitted to the EU to safeguard its democracy, after emerging from decades of military rule in 1975, but it was soon clear that the country had structural and cultural problems quite different to the rest of the EU states. It was the first time that a country had come in that was not directly neighbouring another EU country. It must be remembered that, at that stage and for a long time, the EU comprised 12 states, the fondly remembered Les Douze, and so there was less of a hiding place for a moderately problematic member state than there is today. Now, Greece's problems are such that there is no hiding place at all, since we're all tied together with the euro.

In my own time as a diplomat, the Greeks always played ducks and drakes with any attempt to create a meaningful EU foreign policy. They cosied up to the Eastern Bloc countries when they were still communist. Greece itself almost went communist in 1947, but was prevented from doing so by Winston Churchill, and the continuing presence of a strong communist influence is one reason why it has the unreformed centralised economy, and crippling debt, which you and I are now going to pay for.

On the subject of Cyprus, a dispute so vexatious, it makes the North looked like a garden party, the Greeks have wanted to have it both ways -- supporting an independent Cyprus that would unite Greek and Turkish Cypriots, but also at various stages supporting a 'closer' relationship with the island and even a political union. When I pointed this out to my hosts on a trip to Cyprus, the welcoming ouzo was quickly withdrawn from the table. Granted, we were on a tourist board press trip (next stop, Ayia Napa) and political questions were not exactly top of the agenda but I just had to question why so many Greek flags were provocatively flying everywhere. But that's the Greeks, or Greek Cypriots in this case: they don't see the contradictions. Or the other perspective.

However, the low point of Greek foreign policy was its unwillingness to recognise the former Yugoslav state of Macedonia, because it took the old name of one of their ancient regions. Worse still, this meant that the Greeks could also veto the EU's recognition of the name and so for most of its existence Macedonia has been known as the FYRM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). Can you imagine being a Macedonian football fan: "Come on, the FYRM!". The Greeks call it 'Skopje', the name of its capital. When I protested to my diplomatic colleagues that this was ridiculous and why was Ireland going along with it, the salty old ambassador piped up to say that "it was in the bag for us if there was ever an attempt to rename Northern Ireland as Ulster. We'd make sure the EU opposed it". But really, it was also about the bolshie behaviour of the Greeks making us look good.

The reality is that Greece is a country with which we have little kinship, apart from the study of the classics, sun holidays and if you're lucky enough (or, these days, unlucky enough) the ownership of a whitewashed holiday home. I mean, how many Greek celebrities or famous people do you know? How many of us work with Greeks, or know them socially? Very few. It is, in many ways, a closed society, and the least socially mixed in the EU.

So, if you had to think of a fellow EU country that you would enjoy bailing out, Greece would not be top of the list. Unless, of course, the Greeks were offering some of their lovely islands in exchange -- which is more or less what one German newspaper was suggesting when the Germans were being asked, once again, to stump up for our ailing Mediterranean cousins.

Sunday Independent

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...s-2173328.html

Sportster · 05-09-2010, 07:55 AM

Bet you this guy is pissed of because he didnt get his cut this time.
It amazes me how all of a suddened we are so bad and we been so bad for the past 25 years but if soomeone looks at the list of which country got most of the EU money per year will see that Greece was the No1 for 23 yeqars out of the 25. Now how can that happen? Why would you keep giving your money to someone like us? Why would you even now hand of the world's largest bailout amount? let me tell you why my firends...Because we always made sure that we slipped something under the table to them, now that not very ungreatfull is it?
As far as the island, well thats interesting lets talk about it.

julie · 05-09-2010, 08:32 AM

Is that the hand Greece played with the partitioning of Macedonia?

Frank · 05-09-2010, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Why would you even now hand of the world's largest bailout amount? let me tell you why my firends.

I will tell you why my fiend because Greece thier creation and toy needs to float and be a buffer to Turkey and dear God not ever be under US influence not to mention the myth of Europen Democracy is based on keeping alive and kicking the debris of Ancient Hellas.

In that way u r important not becuase you deserve anything but then again I think you understand that.

Sportster · 05-09-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank

I will tell you why my fiend because Greece thier creation and toy needs to float and be a buffer to Turkey and dear God not ever be under US influence not to mention the myth of Europen Democracy is based on keeping alive and kicking the debris of Ancient Hellas.

In that way u r important not becuase you deserve anything but then again I think you understand that.

You got a point. hey who cares as long as they pay.

05-06-2010, 06:30 AM	#523
makedonin Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,668	Some People just don't care if their acctions are gonna hurt somebody. I can understand protesting, I would even want that Macedonians learn to Protest, but not on cost of the lifes of others. __________________ To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

05-09-2010, 07:25 AM	#526
I of Macedon Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 222	Club should beware of bearing gifts to the Greeks Why fellow members of the club should beware of bearing gifts to the Greeks In political terms, Greece is an ungrateful basket case and a serious underachiever in the EU, writes Eamon Delaney Sunday May 09 2010 LAST week's violent reaction of the Greeks to the foreign aid package which is supposed to save their budgetary bacon says it all, but the reality is that you couldn't pick a less desirable country to bail out in the European Union than Greece. Not 'undesirable' in the sense of blue skies, aquamarine seas and sunshine. No, that's all fine. But in political terms, the country is an ungrateful basket case and, in the EU, it has been a perennial awkward customer. Since the moment of their dubious entry in 1981, the Greeks have quite frankly underachieved and contributed very little to the development of the EU. Except problems. When I was in the UN as a diplomat, it was an open joke: who was minding the door of the club when the Greeks got in? Their attitude was almost always 'what's in it for Greece?' as opposed to what is good for the EU too. When Ireland got massive EU Structural Funds in the Nineties, we built roads and infrastructure, but when similar funding went to Greece in the Eighties, it was siphoned away through corruption and graft, much of it under the Pasok socialist regime -- and this waste has contributed to the mess the Greeks are in today. The irony is that the Greeks have been the most vociferous opponents of keeping out of the EU their old enemy Turkey and yet there are aspects of modern Turkish society and its robust economy which show up Greece for the sclerotic, over-unionised backwater that it is. Try telling that to Lucinda Creighton the next time she talks about keeping the poor old Turks out of the EU. The Greeks' attitude to foreign policy used to be that the Turks were to blame for everything and they wasted no opportunity in raising their bilateral dispute, waving it around like a 'sore thumb'. It was something we had learned to stop doing with Britain and Northern Ireland where you only end up boring the rest of the world to death. But such is the hot-headed attitude of the Greeks to their national issues that they almost went to war twice with Turkey in the last 20 years. We're talking full scale war, among fellow Nato members. How would German taxpayers feel about funding that? Of course, in the cynical world of diplomacy, this has some merit for the Irish. As one salty old ambassador put it, "my boy, as long as they are in the club, we will always look good!" The reality was that Greece was quickly admitted to the EU to safeguard its democracy, after emerging from decades of military rule in 1975, but it was soon clear that the country had structural and cultural problems quite different to the rest of the EU states. It was the first time that a country had come in that was not directly neighbouring another EU country. It must be remembered that, at that stage and for a long time, the EU comprised 12 states, the fondly remembered Les Douze, and so there was less of a hiding place for a moderately problematic member state than there is today. Now, Greece's problems are such that there is no hiding place at all, since we're all tied together with the euro. In my own time as a diplomat, the Greeks always played ducks and drakes with any attempt to create a meaningful EU foreign policy. They cosied up to the Eastern Bloc countries when they were still communist. Greece itself almost went communist in 1947, but was prevented from doing so by Winston Churchill, and the continuing presence of a strong communist influence is one reason why it has the unreformed centralised economy, and crippling debt, which you and I are now going to pay for. On the subject of Cyprus, a dispute so vexatious, it makes the North looked like a garden party, the Greeks have wanted to have it both ways -- supporting an independent Cyprus that would unite Greek and Turkish Cypriots, but also at various stages supporting a 'closer' relationship with the island and even a political union. When I pointed this out to my hosts on a trip to Cyprus, the welcoming ouzo was quickly withdrawn from the table. Granted, we were on a tourist board press trip (next stop, Ayia Napa) and political questions were not exactly top of the agenda but I just had to question why so many Greek flags were provocatively flying everywhere. But that's the Greeks, or Greek Cypriots in this case: they don't see the contradictions. Or the other perspective. However, the low point of Greek foreign policy was its unwillingness to recognise the former Yugoslav state of Macedonia, because it took the old name of one of their ancient regions. Worse still, this meant that the Greeks could also veto the EU's recognition of the name and so for most of its existence Macedonia has been known as the FYRM (Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia). Can you imagine being a Macedonian football fan: "Come on, the FYRM!". The Greeks call it 'Skopje', the name of its capital. When I protested to my diplomatic colleagues that this was ridiculous and why was Ireland going along with it, the salty old ambassador piped up to say that "it was in the bag for us if there was ever an attempt to rename Northern Ireland as Ulster. We'd make sure the EU opposed it". But really, it was also about the bolshie behaviour of the Greeks making us look good. The reality is that Greece is a country with which we have little kinship, apart from the study of the classics, sun holidays and if you're lucky enough (or, these days, unlucky enough) the ownership of a whitewashed holiday home. I mean, how many Greek celebrities or famous people do you know? How many of us work with Greeks, or know them socially? Very few. It is, in many ways, a closed society, and the least socially mixed in the EU. So, if you had to think of a fellow EU country that you would enjoy bailing out, Greece would not be top of the list. Unless, of course, the Greeks were offering some of their lovely islands in exchange -- which is more or less what one German newspaper was suggesting when the Germans were being asked, once again, to stump up for our ailing Mediterranean cousins. Sunday Independent http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...s-2173328.html __________________ No need to sit in the shade, because we stand under our own sun

05-06-2010, 06:52 AM	#524
julie Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: makedonska colonia Posts: 3,869	Makedonin, in reference to protests, either your all in or your not. If there was a worldwide Macedonian protest, I am first in line. Whatever the risks Its unfortunate that people do get hurt and dont know how to communicate effectively with the spoken word, which can be very powerful If someone said to me , today we are going to protest for Macedonia, and there is a risk that you will die, I dont give a rats bum hole for my life, I would go there on principle

05-09-2010, 07:55 AM	#527
Sportster Banned Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 97	Bet you this guy is pissed of because he didnt get his cut this time. It amazes me how all of a suddened we are so bad and we been so bad for the past 25 years but if soomeone looks at the list of which country got most of the EU money per year will see that Greece was the No1 for 23 yeqars out of the 25. Now how can that happen? Why would you keep giving your money to someone like us? Why would you even now hand of the world's largest bailout amount? let me tell you why my firends...Because we always made sure that we slipped something under the table to them, now that not very ungreatfull is it? As far as the island, well thats interesting lets talk about it.

05-09-2010, 08:32 AM	#528
julie Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: makedonska colonia Posts: 3,869	Is that the hand Greece played with the partitioning of Macedonia?

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