Racism from Greece and Greeks

[SirGeorge8600]

Both Turkey and Greece have been unpleasant to their immigrants/minorities. Why are there a bunch of radical Kurds and Armenians in Turkey screaming and protesting independence and recognition Onur? Seems to me Turkey took the Kurds' land and identity when imperialistic opportunities allowed for such to happen, just like the Greece did to the Macedonians. Then in modern day most of them deny it.

[George S.]

Well votron it cant' be macedonians because they didn't do any.It can only be greek or turkish,bulgarian,serbian.
Voltron this is a golden opportunity for you to mention with evidence of turkish/greek attrocities & turkish members can mention greek/turkish attrocities.What could be fairer than that.So don't focus too much that it's greek attrocities as all are guilty with the exception of macedonia.

[Onur]

No SirGeorge, it`s not the same thing. Neither Kurds nor Armenians never had some kind of state or an authority over Anatolia. While on the other hand, Macedonians ruled in there and even in other places than Macedonia during Alexander`s era. For example, in izmir, there is an ancient shopping site, called Agora. It`s been build by the Alexander the Great and there are several towns, cities in Anatolia, created by him again and it still carries his name today.

On the other hand, Kurds and Armenians lived under Persian domination at first, then Roman and finally in Turkish domination. They were always minority, living as scattered all over Anatolia and Balkans. Obviously, there was no Kurdistan nor Armenian state/kingdom throughout history. It was Persia, eastern Roman empire, Ottoman empire and finally Turkish republic. To be able to create a state of your own, you gotta have a will, power and a legitimacy and obviously, not all distinct society in a particular place can have their own states in it. Otherwise we would have 10+ state inside current Greece (gypsies, vlachs, arvanites, pontics etc.) and 15+ more in today`s Turkey (kurds, albanians, circassians, lazs, bosnians etc.). 100+ more in USA!!!


The situation is exact opposite for the today`s so-called Greek Macedonia. Since humanity started to write history, Greeks was always a small minority in Macedonia for 1000s of years. Before 1913, Greek population of Aegean Macedonia was about same as the gypsies, not more than 15%. Then it became 100% Greek in paper after 1913. If we consider this fact, i would say that even gypsies had more history in Macedonia than Greeks and probably equal population. So imho, gypsies had even more legitimacy to create their own state than Greeks for Aegean Macedonia.

[Onur]

Originally Posted by George S.

Voltron this is a golden opportunity for you to mention with evidence of turkish/greek attrocities & turkish members can mention greek/turkish attrocities.What could be fairer than that.So don't focus too much that it's greek attrocities as all are guilty with the exception of macedonia.

I think it`s Fatso`s turn now. Now he can pick up where Voltron left and take the thread to it`s 10th page in less than an hour. C`mon Fatso, you can do that!!!

[Ottoman]

Originally Posted by Voltron

George, like I said before your Ok.
But why would I apologize to a Turk ? You should then apologize to me.
Thats nuts. We have to put things in perspective, what the Turks did is genocide. Full stop. That is acknowledged all over the world. What happened to Macedonians was not genocide. Let the numbers do the talking for you. I will drop dead before I apologize to a Turk. As far as an apology to Macedonians, OK, if that is what will make this world a better place. Im Sorry.

According to whom?

[Voltron]

According to everyone. Can someone pls enlighten us how many Macedonians are in Greece ? If there was a genocide, wouldnt their numbers be comparable to Greeks in Turkey ? Lets leave the emotion out of this and use common sense ppl.

[Voltron]

Originally Posted by Onur

No SirGeorge, it`s not the same thing. Neither Kurds nor Armenians never had some kind of state or an authority over Anatolia. While on the other hand, Macedonians ruled in there and even in other places than Macedonia during Alexander`s era. For example, in izmir, there is an ancient shopping site, called Agora. It`s been build by the Alexander the Great and there are several towns, cities in Anatolia, created by him again and it still carries his name today.

On the other hand, Kurds and Armenians lived under Persian domination at first, then Roman and finally in Turkish domination. They were always minority, living as scattered all over Anatolia and Balkans. Obviously, there was no Kurdistan nor Armenian state/kingdom throughout history. It was Persia, eastern Roman empire, Ottoman empire and finally Turkish republic. To be able to create a state of your own, you gotta have a will, power and a legitimacy and obviously, not all distinct society in a particular place can have their own states in it. Otherwise we would have 10+ state inside current Greece (gypsies, vlachs, arvanites, pontics etc.) and 15+ more in today`s Turkey (kurds, albanians, circassians, lazs, bosnians etc.). 100+ more in USA!!!


The situation is exact opposite for the today`s so-called Greek Macedonia. Since humanity started to write history, Greeks was always a small minority in Macedonia for 1000s of years. Before 1913, Greek population of Aegean Macedonia was about same as the gypsies, not more than 15%. Then it became 100% Greek in paper after 1913. If we consider this fact, i would say that even gypsies had more history in Macedonia than Greeks and probably equal population. So imho, gypsies had even more legitimacy to create their own state than Greeks for Aegean Macedonia.

[Ottoman]

Lol I never denied that Turks killed people, yes we committed genocide in the past but you really think the Greeks did nothing? you really think Greeks are only victims in this case????

Greece was under Ottoman control for centuries, you really think the Greeks who didnt became Ottomans didnt wanted revenge? you really think they didnt assault the Ottomans when they had the chance??? they didnt rape our women or killed any innocent Ottoman civilians?? bullshit Voltron and you know it, Greece had to spoil blood to become independent and we all know many innocent Ottoman Turks died for that.

Stop playing the victim al the time, the Macedonians are the real victims here not Greeks.

[SirGeorge8600]

Voltron, your mega picture of pills crashed by internet browser..good job.

@Ottoman...read my post...both Greeks and Turks are responsible for victimizing people and denying it. For crying out loud, why do Greeks and Turks like pointing the finger of guilt when those very hands are also covered in blood? Hypocrisy? I think so.

Also I feel the vibe in this thread targets people more than it does past generations delusioned by nationalist ideologies... in that case maybe we should make the Germans out to be the worse when indeed they're some of the nicest people I've ever met.

Also @Ottoman, just because an ethnicity suffered less does not make them lesser victims or lesser to be regarded. It's like the Holocaust when Western media only focuses on Jews and ignores the masses of Poles and Gypsies killed as well. You people can thank democratic and liberal ideologists for living the way we do today and having the things we have...even the sake that we're able to recognize the suffering is a product of this. If we all lived under the regimes that nationalists from our countries 'admire' from the past and wish gained power, we'd all be in the shitter. John Rawls had a point...even if you are a selfish person you still need to regard the state of life of the other/opposing individual as much as you regard yours, because eventually the system devouring the opposing person will eventually devour you.

Please speak of genocide victims with respect...when they were sitting at the barrel of a gun in front of a pit ready to enter a world of an unknown or absolute nothingness and never seeing their loved ones again, they could have cared less about some flag color, border shape, or detailed religion, or the face of some heroic leader that would live in spoiled royalty while they rotted in the ground. Their last thoughts were of horror, darkness, and absolute fear- a human condition that recognizes no ethnicity, cult, or religion. So while we sit in our temperature controlled rooms, with security, food, and family behind a computer screen, it must be easy to flame on these victims. I like to think that if there is a heaven that these people sit aside God regardless of what ethnicity their physical waste on Earth was, shaking their heads down on us small humans for laying such waste on eachother. And if you don't believe in God, I see no feasible way as to how you can be a nationalist.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by SirGeorge8600

Please speak of genocide victims with respect...when they were sitting at the barrel of a gun in front of a pit ready to enter a world of an unknown or absolute nothingness and never seeing their loved ones again, they could have cared less about some flag color, border shape, or detailed religion, or the face of some heroic leader that would live in spoiled royalty while they rotted in the ground. Their last thoughts were of horror, darkness, and absolute fear- a human condition that recognizes no ethnicity, cult, or religion. So while we sit in our temperature controlled rooms, with security, food, and family behind a computer screen, it must be easy to flame on these victims. I like to think that if there is a heaven that these people sit aside God regardless of what ethnicity their physical waste on Earth was, shaking their heads down on us small humans for laying such waste on eachother. And if you don't believe in God, I see no feasible way as to how you can be a nationalist.

That is a lovely piece of text.