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Old 03-29-2011, 01:08 PM   #1
Onur
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Default Huge uproar in Greece over a tv documentary called 1821 (Greek independance)

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TV documentary 1821 angers nationalist Greeks
A television documentary about the Greek independence struggle against the Ottomans aired by Greece’s Skai channel has angered clerics and hard core nationalists who accused the producers of being biased in favor of the Ottomans.

The eight-part documentary called 1821, the date when the Greeks insurrected against the Ottomans in Morea, today called Peloponnese, at the southern tip of the Greek mainland, aims to present an objective narrative of history. The documentary was produced and presented by the Greek writer Petros Tatsopoulos with an impressive team of international historians including William St. Clair of University of London, Thanos Veremis of Athens University and Fikret Adanir, professor of history at Istanbul’s Sabanci University.

The initial episodes also refer to the conquest of Greece by the Ottomans in the 15th Century and point out that the standard of living and amount of agricultural produce increased after the conquest that came just after a devastating epidemic of “black death.” But the part that must have been the most disturbing for the far right circles and some clerics in Greece is when the documentary describes the initial uprising as a religious war against the Muslims in Morea that resulted in the killing of some 20,000 Muslim men, women and children during the first few weeks of the insurrection. According to the documentary, Christian peasants were incited to rebellion by priests and leaders of the rebellion like Theodoros Kolokotronis who is a national hero in Greece, by untrue rumors that the Russian Czar had occupied Constantinople and his armies were coming to liberate Orthodox Greeks from the Ottoman yoke.

The documentary also describes dramatically the bloodbath that followed the siege of Tripolitsa, the capital town of Peloponnese under the Ottomans.


Tatsopoulos, the narrator of the documentary said at an interview that he was expecting some negative reaction but not to such an extent. He said most of the harsh reaction was coming from bloggers and internet sites.

“From the beginning I was expecting positive and negative reactions. But I did not expect that they were to be expressed in such a violent manner. Although the negative reactions are definitely less compared to the positive ones but when you face insults such as ‘agent on the payroll’ or ‘servant of foreigners’ or even worse…. I confess I was not expecting such violence; and not only me as a matter of fact, but none of the contributors were expecting such a thing,” Tatsopoulos said.

The chief consultant Prof. Veremis of the documentary also got his share of rancor from the rightwing LAOS party, the deputies of which asked for an explanation from the Minister of Culture Pavlos Geroulanos pointing out to what they termed as “distortion of Greek history” in the documentary. In the written demand for an explanation the LAOS deputies claimed that Veremis was pushing the idea of a confederation between Greece and Turkey.

Anthimos, the metropolite of Salonica who is known for his anti-Turkish comments also joined the critics at a Sunday sermon saying that the documentary was “a destruction of history as we knew it until today.”


Apparently, this document shed some light on the truth about 1821, Greek war of independence, like 1821 was just a religious war, realized and perpetuated by the western Europeans and local Greek priests. Also the brutal massacre of ~20.000 muslims, leading to total annihilation of Greek, Albanian and obviously Turkish muslims in just a week at Morea. I bet this was quite a shock for ordinary Greeks who only fed with the myths of usual Greek propaganda for more than a century.

This was also in the news on Turkish websites. There was some extracts from the documentary;
  • Especially in 15-16th century, Greek speaking population has been increased a lot and they became the most richest group among all christians in Ottoman empire
  • The thing about Greek boys secretly getting education in caves(krifo sholio) during the entire Ottoman era, was just a lie!

    "LOL what? Is that whats being thought in Greece? while it`s a fact that first ever christian theology university has been built by Mehmed II. in 1454 and awarded to the Phanariots."
  • Turks and Greeks was living together and there was no christian ghettos no where in Ottoman empire. Intermarriages between Greeks and Turks was very common!
  • Greeks was quite indistinguishable from the Turks in appearance and clothing. Western style clothing and western people was generally despised among Greeks.
  • After Ottoman conquest, Greek farmers has been rescued from the grasp of feudal lords and they became the owner of their lands, fields and just paid taxes to the Ottoman government according to the value of their harvests
http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.as...&CategoryID=77



There is a link to watch the full documentary in eight episodes but it`s in Greek language only;

http://www.skai.gr/player/TV/?MMID=210180



P.S: I wonder if they also mentioned about the fact that most of the so-called Greeks of Morea was actually christian Albanians and after their liberation, their priests preached in the churches like "you gonna quit speaking your barbaric tongues(Arvanite, Vlacho Roman etc.) in the favor of Greek language" and then how British and other western European linguists formed modern Greek language and then set up schools to teach it to the mob.

If they didn't mention about that now, then maybe for the next documentary at 2021, 200th anniversary of it

Last edited by Onur; 03-29-2011 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:28 PM   #2
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This is just western liberalism slowly penetrating Greece. Its also part of Greek Turkish reaaproachment. Its pathetic that our leaders in this time of crisis choose to air this garbage.

Anyway, you will soon know all about this. Same thing will happen to Turkey in a few years. First we have Turkish soap opera's now this documentary. Coincidence? I dont think so. Its part of a wider plan to weaken cultures and bring everything in line with political correctness, multiculturalism and globalization all mixed in one.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:39 PM   #3
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No voltron its called opening pandora's box which you idiots were trying to cover up for so many years. Your lies and deciepts are starting to surface now and you guys can't hide the truth anymore. Wake up and smell the backlava. Truth will bite you in the ass and its going to hurt.

Onur good find!


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Old 03-29-2011, 05:15 PM   #4
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Voltron u aint going to find many supporters of your analysis here we Macedonians well understand who you Greeks are and the closet of Secrets that Hellenism for over 100 years has gathered

Through Hellenism the cultural genocide of every culture previous in what became Modern Greece through cultural assimilation into Modern Greek Indenity into what Greeks today even as far as Australia by second Generation Greek-Australians will testify as 99% Greek, Greek Orthodox and Homogeneous
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:49 PM   #5
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voltron why hide from the truth there is a saying the truth will set you free.It's about time you opened up as your credibility has been shot to pieces.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:10 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Onur View Post




Apparently, this document shed some light on the truth about 1821, Greek war of independence, like 1821 was just a religious war, realized and perpetuated by the western Europeans and local Greek priests. Also the brutal massacre of ~20.000 muslims, leading to total annihilation of Greek, Albanian and obviously Turkish muslims in just a week at Morea. I bet this was quite a shock for ordinary Greeks who only fed with the myths of usual Greek propaganda for more than a century.

This was also in the news on Turkish websites. There was some extracts from the documentary;
  • Especially in 15-16th century, Greek speaking population has been increased a lot and they became the most richest group among all christians in Ottoman empire
  • The thing about Greek boys secretly getting education in caves(krifo sholio) during the entire Ottoman era, was just a lie!

    "LOL what? Is that whats being thought in Greece? while it`s a fact that first ever christian theology university has been built by Mehmed II. in 1454 and awarded to the Phanariots."
  • Turks and Greeks was living together and there was no christian ghettos no where in Ottoman empire. Intermarriages between Greeks and Turks was very common!
  • Greeks was quite indistinguishable from the Turks in appearance and clothing. Western style clothing and western people was generally despised among Greeks.
  • After Ottoman conquest, Greek farmers has been rescued from the grasp of feudal lords and they became the owner of their lands, fields and just paid taxes to the Ottoman government according to the value of their harvests
http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.as...&CategoryID=77



There is a link to watch the full documentary in eight episodes but it`s in Greek language only;

http://www.skai.gr/player/TV/?MMID=210180



P.S: I wonder if they also mentioned about the fact that most of the so-called Greeks of Morea was actually christian Albanians and after their liberation, their priests preached in the churches like "you gonna quit speaking your barbaric tongues(Arvanite, Vlacho Roman etc.) in the favor of Greek language" and then how British and other western European linguists formed modern Greek language and then set up schools to teach it to the mob.

If they didn't mention about that now, then maybe for the next documentary at 2021, 200th anniversary of it
If William St. Clair is on their I wonder if they mentioned the Albanianess of the war for independence.

Voltron said:
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This is just western liberalism slowly penetrating Greece. Its also part of Greek Turkish reaaproachment. Its pathetic that our leaders in this time of crisis choose to air this garbage.

Anyway, you will soon know all about this. Same thing will happen to Turkey in a few years. First we have Turkish soap opera's now this documentary. Coincidence? I dont think so. Its part of a wider plan to weaken cultures and bring everything in line with political correctness, multiculturalism and globalization all mixed in one.
Leaders? So you mean to tell me that your government controls everything you watch on television?

As for 'political correctness' and 'multi-culturalism' your country was built on it. No need to play make believe here. We know about the Albanians who freed your country along with the philhellenes, the Vlachs who were the enlighteners and entrepreneurs who opened universities in your country, the gypsy who has a football stadium named after him, and the Germans that re-invented Sparta and Athens your capital. Let's move from fiction to reality and discuss the issue of your priests playing nationalist historians. Care to discuss this issue with us?
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Old 03-30-2011, 05:39 AM   #7
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Leaders? So you mean to tell me that your government controls everything you watch on television?
No, but what they do is give their endorsement. Dont forget this is an ongoing process that has been started now for 20 yrs. They chip away at it slowly but surely. Bilateral contacts and "confidence building" measures with Turks include and are not limitied to "modifing" schoolbooks, programs and media outlets. These agreements have been agreed upon by both parties and now these are the final results of those agreements.

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As for 'political correctness' and 'multi-culturalism' your country was built on it. No need to play make believe here. We know about the Albanians who freed your country along with the philhellenes, the Vlachs who were the enlighteners and entrepreneurs who opened universities in your country, the gypsy who has a football stadium named after him, and the Germans that re-invented Sparta and Athens your capital. Let's move from fiction to reality and discuss the issue of your priests playing nationalist historians. Care to discuss this issue with us?
That is a very simplistic way of looking at things TM. We have discussed this to death but that doesnt mean I am not willing to discuss it further. Sure why not.

Last edited by Voltron; 03-30-2011 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 03-30-2011, 04:41 PM   #8
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Voltron, like i told you before, Turkey doesn't need Greece in any way. So, either you love or hate from us, it doesn't matter much for us. If what you and the LAOS party members telling the truth, then i think this is happening because of your miserable economic situation. Just like the Salonika mayor, who wanna put down a statue of Ataturk in Salonika just to lure Turkish tourists, so you can leech some money from us, OR the mayors of several islands in Aegean sea like the Chios islanders who invites Turks there for the first time ever.



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In the written demand for an explanation the LAOS deputies claimed that Veremis was pushing the idea of a confederation between Greece and Turkey.
Voltron, is this true? Who is this idiot called Veremis? I heard this myth of Greek-Turkish confederation b4, from another Greek named Dimitri Kitsikis. Are they out of their minds or gone mad because of the economic crisis? This cant, wont and shouldn't happen in a million years. Our lost ancestors from 1919-1922 would turn in their graves if anyone in Turkey even thinks something like that. You Greeks better behave like a normal neighbor, that would be more than enough.

A confederation!!! lol, fckin idiots!!! Why we would create a confederation with piss poor Greeks while there are dozens of Turkic countries with rich energy sources in eastern side, waiting for us in open arms???

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Old 03-30-2011, 05:29 PM   #9
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Why we would create a confederation with piss poor Greeks while there are dozens of Turkic countries with rich energy sources in eastern side, waiting for us in open arms???
This makes sense but if we look at Slavic speaking countries, they have been of no benefit to Macedonia whatsoever.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:01 AM   #10
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That is a very simplistic way of looking at things TM. We have discussed this to death but that doesnt mean I am not willing to discuss it further. Sure why not.
Actually it's the opposite Voltron, because although we're dealing with complex notions of identity in Greece most times they are treated as if they're based on a religious "black & white" dichotomic dualism, which simply isn't a true. You may think that at that time the situation was non-Greek speaking Greeks, who had a pure Greek ethnic identity (and had intermarried so much with Greeks that their origin is unimportant) vs. everybody else, but that wasn't the case. For example Orthodox Albanians(Arvanites) of Greece sang lamentations for Muslim Albanian commanders of the Ottoman Empire that were killed during the "1821" period, although according to your simplistic view they were "mortal enemies".
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