Ethnogenesis of the Macedonians?

[kajce]

I found this forum earlier this year and I've been reading a lot of theories on the origins of the Macedonian people and who they were. I've seen theories regarding the original Macedonian tribes, a Brygian origin, as well as a Thracian relation. But perhaps the most interesting one I've seen (several times here) is that the Macedonians were a mix of Brygian speaking groups that united under one banner (Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, etc.). Others have also suggested that these ancient peoples, mixed (either completely or just to a degree) with the migrating Slavs/Turkic peoples that arrived in the Balkans. I was hoping to get your guys' opinions on what the ethnogenesis of modern Macedonians entails.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Various tribes inhabited Macedonia in antiquity and the more prominent among them certainly contributed to the development of a distinct Macedonian nation. But even after that development, Macedonia (and much of the Balkans, for that matter) was invaded by different people during different periods. This doesn't mean the legacy of our earlier ancestors had been wiped out, it just means that other influences also had an impact on the evolution of our culture and DNA. The same can be said for many other peoples. Just one example I have used in the past, the French. Their ancient ancestors had a Celtic origin, their language has a Latin origin, their ethnic name has a Germanic origin and many of their celebrated historical figures have a Scandinavian origin. Yet irrespective of this concoction, nobody seems to have an issue with their national narrative or status as the indigenous population of France. Macedonians should never look at themselves as any less valid despite the deception of our enemies and treachery of our politicians. We are the indigenous people of Macedonia and rightful heirs to that heritage.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Various tribes inhabited Macedonia in antiquity and the more prominent among them certainly contributed to the development of a distinct Macedonian nation. But even after that development, Macedonia (and much of the Balkans, for that matter) was invaded by different people during different periods. This doesn't mean the legacy of our earlier ancestors had been wiped out, it just means that other influences also had an impact on the evolution of our culture and DNA. The same can be said for many other peoples. Just one example I have used in the past, the French. Their ancient ancestors had a Celtic origin, their language has a Latin origin, their ethnic name has a Germanic origin and many of their celebrated historical figures have a Scandinavian origin. Yet irrespective of this concoction, nobody seems to have an issue with their national narrative or status as the indigenous population of France. Macedonians should never look at themselves as any less valid despite the deception of our enemies and treachery of our politicians. We are the indigenous people of Macedonia and rightful heirs to that heritage.

Well said, summed up perfectly.

[Gocka]

Spot on. I also always use the French as an example.

The reality is that Europe is probably one of the worlds largest melting pots. Because of its long history, every century brought new invaders, particularly in the Balkans. We are not only one of the oldest inhabited regions in the world, but also at a crossroads of east and west.

We are probably so mixed that its impossible to boil it down to even a few origins, but there is almost no other place in Europe that is any different other than the far northern regions like Scandinavia.

Southern Europe is especially mixed. You had native populations, migrations and invasions from North Africa, Asia, Northern and Western Europe.

In the end, its all meaningless to the concept of nationality and nationhood.

We could be more Greek than the Greeks for all we know, god knows they don't look anything like the people described in their precious history.

Various tribes inhabited Macedonia in antiquity and the more prominent among them certainly contributed to the development of a distinct Macedonian nation. But even after that development, Macedonia (and much of the Balkans, for that matter) was invaded by different people during different periods. This doesn't mean the legacy of our earlier ancestors had been wiped out, it just means that other influences also had an impact on the evolution of our culture and DNA. The same can be said for many other peoples. Just one example I have used in the past, the French. Their ancient ancestors had a Celtic origin, their language has a Latin origin, their ethnic name has a Germanic origin and many of their celebrated historical figures have a Scandinavian origin. Yet irrespective of this concoction, nobody seems to have an issue with their national narrative or status as the indigenous population of France. Macedonians should never look at themselves as any less valid despite the deception of our enemies and treachery of our politicians. We are the indigenous people of Macedonia and rightful heirs to that heritage.

[Tomche Makedonche]

We could be more Greek than the Greeks for all we know...

I think in some respects there is more truth to that than anyone of us would care to admit...

[Amphipolis]

We are probably so mixed that its impossible to boil it down to even a few origins, but there is almost no other place in Europe that is any different other than the far northern regions like Scandinavia.

Southern Europe is especially mixed. You had native populations, migrations and invasions from North Africa, Asia, Northern and Western Europe.

In the end, its all meaningless to the concept of nationality and nationhood.

We could be more Greek than the Greeks for all we know, god knows they don't look anything like the people described in their precious history.

You should take that test then, like I did.

N. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWzwWz1m9Ks

Bojan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeozlC6Twfc

[tchaiku]

Spot on. I also always use the French as an example.

The reality is that Europe is probably one of the worlds largest melting pots. Because of its long history, every century brought new invaders, particularly in the Balkans. We are not only one of the oldest inhabited regions in the world, but also at a crossroads of east and west.

We are probably so mixed that its impossible to boil it down to even a few origins, but there is almost no other place in Europe that is any different other than the far northern regions like Scandinavia.

Southern Europe is especially mixed. You had native populations, migrations and invasions from North Africa, Asia, Northern and Western Europe.

In the end, its all meaningless to the concept of nationality and nationhood.

We could be more Greek than the Greeks for all we know, god knows they don't look anything like the people described in their precious history.

According to Strabo Thracians were the majority in Macedonia. The original borders of Macedonia yet it still includes Mygdones, a Thracian tribe north of Chalkidiki.

Not to mention Macedonians settled all the way to India and Egypt.

[Carlin]

Define French

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Define French

Better not show a French Nationalist that map

[VMRO]

Better not show a French Nationalist that map

Are there any French nationalist around anymore??? Seems they have all been through a desexing process.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Are there any French nationalist around anymore??? Seems they have all been through a desexing process.

France still refuses to recognise any minority languages on its territory, it hasn't signed the European Convention on Minority Languages (or whatever it's called).

[Gocka]

The majority of historic Macedonia is highly insulated. The majority of Vardar and Pirin Macedonians lived up in the mountains up until after WW2, a mere 70 years ago. They would have been insulated from much of the invading hordes over the centuries. It took the Turks centuries to reach the places like Jablanica.

Genetically speaking from the time of Alexander and backwards, why would any peoples of the Balkan peninsula have been significantly different? They would have had common ancestors, mythology aside.

The Greek city states were more metropolitan and attracted people from all over. After the Roman invasions they were completely overrun with influxes of people from all over the Roman empire. To the point where even the Greek language and identity was lost. That was 2000 years ago. What of all the invaders after that?

Macedonians probably have more roots in those ancient peoples, who many would consider "Greeks", than the inhabitants of Greece proper.

Greek culture and language has found a way to live on, mostly through others, but this idea that We are just Slavs, and they are decedents of the ancients is not even laughable, its moronic.

I think in some respects there is more truth to that than anyone of us would care to admit...

[Gocka]

You should smash a plate and go fuck yourself. Or the other way around.

You should take that test then, like I did.

N. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWzwWz1m9Ks

Bojan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeozlC6Twfc

[Amphipolis]

The Greek city states were more metropolitan and attracted people from all over. After the Roman invasions they were completely overrun with influxes of people from all over the Roman empire. To the point where even the Greek language and identity was lost. That was 2000 years ago. What of all the invaders after that?

Macedonians probably have more roots in those ancient peoples, who many would consider "Greeks", than the inhabitants of Greece proper.

Greek culture and language has found a way to live on, mostly through others, but this idea that We are just Slavs, and they are decedents of the ancients is not even laughable, its moronic.

Uh... Greek language was never lost.

[Gocka]

Not to the world of course, it was too ingrained in history and philosophy for that to happen.

To inhabitants of the Greek peninsula it certainly was. But who could blame them. After half the Roman empire moved in, how many Greeks were left anyway.

You guys are as ornate genetically as those plates you love smashing. And that's okay too, you just won't accept it.

Uh... Greek language was never lost.