Macedonia and Bulgaria: Political Relations

[The LION will ROAR]

Bulgarian Govt in search of Holidays to celebrate...

Bulgarian Govt in search of Holidays to celebrate...

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/14800/46/

Monday, 24 May 2010
Faced with the notion of nothingness, the Bulgarian Government sent its Prime Minister to the Vatican to 'celebrate' Ss Cyril's anniversary, a day which sees a Macedonian delegation visiting the Vatican to pay homage to their countryman, and meet with the Pope.

For a fifth year now, the Bulgarian Government in a rather humorous fashion sends 'delegation' to the Vatican to celebrate Ss Cyril, a noted Macedonian Apostle, celebrated in two dozen countries.

Is it so that the Bulgarians decided to become Macedonians as well? The way things are going, the Balkan Peninsula will have nothing, but Macedonians... You have the 'Greeks' claiming they are Macedonians (can't blame them), and the Bulgarians celebrating Macedonian holidays.

The Vatican seemed to have an issue accepting the Bulgarian delegation, simply because they are unsure why are they there in the first place.

Bulgaria sends its Prime Minister to have a shot meeting the Pope, otherwise they are met by lowly ranking cardinal, while Macedonia whoever it sends (this time it's the speaker of Parliament) are always met by the Pope.

The Vatican TV channel, used to covering the Macedonian delegation, during a life broadcast said "The Macedonian delegation is arriving ..." while showing a footage of the arrival of the Bulgarian PM. The Bulgarian flag was also flying upside-down, which normally happens when the host doesn't put much importance to delegations who wish to celebrate someone elses holidays.

This isn't the first time, these types of 'incidents' are recurring ... perhaps a sign to the Bulgarian government to stay in Sofia next year.

[Prolet]

http://www.sitel.com.mk/dnevnik/makedonija/vatikanskata-televizija-gi-izmesha-premierite

[Daskalot]

Thank you for the heads up Indigen. We are quite aware of this, it is good to have in writing.

[Homer MakeDonski]

Решивме да почекаме уште малку пред да почнеме јавно да го нарекуваме лажго, лумпен, хипокрит, демагог, игнорант, лудак и уште некои други работи

Уште ли чекате ?


Англискиот ви е добар ...околу сево ова може малку и интернационало
да се прозбори ...впрочем ,тие така интернационално и го шират нивното, најблаго кажано незнаење...околу нашето македонското
Поздрав

[Prolet]

How did i miss this thread??

Excellent work Indigen

Karakachanov and Bozidar Dimitrov are both sick people, they make their fame by denying our identity.

[VMRO]

Bulgarofil Karov attcks Macedonia again!

Macedonian Bulgarians Invite 'Psychiatric Help' for Macedonia's Govt
Dragi Karov is pictured here kissing the monument of VMRO leader Todor Alexandrov that he erected in his own yard in Veles in February 2010. Photo by spic.com.mk

The leaders of the Republic of Macedonia are “mentally ill”, according to Dragi Kirov, an activist of Initiative Committee of Bulgarians from Macedonia.

Speaking at a news conference at the BTA agency in Sofia on Sunday, Kirov, a native of the Macedonian town of Veles, urged the Bulgarian Prime Minister Boyko Borisov to send psychiatrists to Macedonia who can “provide treatment to the Macedonian government.”

“We don't need tanks any more, we need psychiatrists,” declared Karov as he reminded that in the late 1990s the Bulgarian government of former Prime Minister Ivan Kostov gave Macedonia for free 150 T-54 tanks, which were to be scrapped by the Bulgarian Army.

“The government of Macedonia suffers from a mental sickness, and so does President George Ivanov and the Macedonian media,” Karov said.

In his words, the “problem” is caused by what he described as “the chip implanted in them by the Serbo-communists”. “Serbo-communists” is a term used by Bulgarian nationalists and some historians to refer to the supporters of Yugoslavia in Macedonia.

“There are people in Macedonia who are not aware of their Bulgarian origin but this is not their fault, this is the fault of Serbia's servants. Macedonia currently is a Serbo-communist concentration camp,” Karev stated.

Dragi Karev is known for erecting in his house yard in Veles monuments of Todor Alexandrov and Ivan Mihaylov, leaders of the VMRO, the Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization from the early 20th century that in some stages of its development aspired to integrate Macedonia with Bulgaria.

After Macedonia became independent in 1991, its relations with Bulgaria have been marked by mutual claims and accusations about the ethnicity and language of each other's population. In general, the Bulgarian position is that today's Macedonian people were historically part of the Bulgarian nation and culture, while the Macedonian position claims the existence of a "Macedonian minority" in Southwestern Bulgaria. Bulgarian nationalists and most of the historians attribute the creation of the contemporary Macedonian nation to a doctrine developed in the 1940s in communist Yugoslavia aimed at distancing the population in Macedonia from Bulgaria.

[fyrOM]

He is an idiot. He should be monitored for any concrete statements of treason if these are not enough. At which time he should be arrested and if he has Macedonia citizenship it should be stripped and he should be deported to Bulgaria or sent to jail.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The call for the Bulgar doctors is valid, except they should be sent straight to Karov's house, and then, together, they should be medically examined by Macedonian doctors.

[Frank]

What about a hospital stay from a severe beating or preferably someone just kill the bastard wouldnt that suit everyone

[VMRO]

Bulgarian teacher to be posthumously honored by Yad Vashem

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=179716

Vladimir Kurtev disappeared after the war, and his fate is unknown – although it is believed that he may have been murdered by the Bulgarian communist authorities.

More than 67 years after Vladimir Kurtev made a bold attempt to save the Jews of Bulgaria, Macedonia and Thrace, he will be posthumously honored at Yad Vashem on Monday as a Righteous Among the Nations.

Since Yad Vashem’s founding in 1953, more than 22,200 men and women from 45 countries have been accorded the honor, which is bestowed upon those who helped save Jews, at their own personal risk, during the Holocaust.

Born in Pleven, Bulgaria in 1888, Kurtev was a teacher in the city of Kyustendil, and maintained strong ties with leaders of the city’s Jewish community.

He was also a member of a revolutionary Macedonian movement, which espoused the independence of Macedonia from Turkey, and later adopted a pro-Bulgarian stance. Several of Kyustendil’s Jews were members of this movement.

On February 22, 1943, an agreement was signed between the Bulgarian Commissioner for Jewish Questions, Alexander Belev, and Theodor Dannecker, a representative of SS Commander Adolf Eichmann, regarding the deportation of 20,000 Jews from Bulgaria. The agreement was authorized by the Bulgarian government on March 2, and two days later, preparations were made for the deportation of some 12,000 Jews from Macedonia and Thrace, which were under Bulgarian rule.

Rumors about the impending deportations reached the Jews of Kyustendil, and the community received an order from a representative of the Commissioner to prepare supplies for the Jewish deportees.

The city’s Jews together with non-Jewish public figures felt impelled to act, and on March 8, a four-man delegation, comprised of all non-Jews, set out for the Bulgarian capital of Sofia in an effort to revoke the decree.

Kurtev was one of the four delegates, along with Asen Suichmezov, Petar Mikhalev and Ivan-Christov Momchilov. A larger delegation had initially been scheduled to depart, but some of the members backed out, reluctant to take such drastic action.

As the delegates left for Sofia on the train, an empty train car designated for the deportees already stood waiting at the Kyustendil train station.

Immediately upon their arrival in Sofia the following morning, the delegates met with deputy Speaker of Parliament Dimitar Peshev, who did all he could to cancel the deportations, and was removed from his post as a result.

Kurtev, Peshev and Mikhalev then met with Minister of the Interior Petur Gabrovski and demanded that he call off the deportations. When Gabrovski attempted to deny the existence of the deportation plans, Kurtev retorted that he had heard about them with his own ears, and threatened the minister with Macedonian “sanctions” if the edict wasn’t revoked.

The efforts of the delegation, as well as other actions taken by the head of the Holy Synod, Metropolitan (Bishop) Stephan and others, paid off, and a directive was issued to release the arrested Jews from the provincial towns of old Bulgaria, and to refrain from making additional arrests.

The deportation of the Jews of Macedonia and Thrace continued, however, and by the end of the same month, more than 11,000 Jews had been sent to the death camps.

Metropolitan Bishops Stefan and Kiril were recognized by Yad Vashem as Righteous Among the Nations in 2001. Dimitar Peshev and three of the four delegates were recognized in 1973 and in 1991, and received the medal and certificate of honor in their lifetimes.

Kurtev, however, disappeared after the war, and his fate is unknown – although it is believed that he may have been murdered by the Bulgarian communist authorities.

With the assistance of the Israeli embassy in Sofia, relevant documents were obtained from the archives in Bulgaria, and the recognition process was finally completed. On May 3, 2010, the Commission for the Designation of the Righteous Among the Nations decided to award Vladimir Kurtev the title of Righteous Among the Nations, and on Monday, a ceremony marking the award will take place at Yad Vashem.

Kurtev’s granddaughter, Jasmin, will receive the medal and certificate of honor on his behalf.

The ceremony is also scheduled to take place in the presence of Bulgarian Foreign Minister Nikolai Mladenov, Bulgarian Ambassador to Israel Dimitar Tsanchev, and the Chairman of the Israel-Bulgaria Friendship Association, Dr. Moshe Mossek.

The medal and certificate will be presented by Avner Shalev, Chairman of Yad Vashem.

[Bill77]

Rather than starting another thread i will just post it here.

Its an interview on Professor Manchev by some journalist called Ivan Atanasov. Its in Bulgarian so i have no way of translating it and depend on google translate to get as close as possible to the original discussion.


A Rare objectivity of a Bulgarian historian/Professor

Professor Krusty Manchev was born on September 27, 1926 in the village Verzar, Tsaribrodsko, Western suburbs. Graduated in University history. He has specialized in the GDR and the USSR. Fellow at the Institute for Balkan Studies at BAS. He escaped in 1949 in Bulgaria for years has worked as a foreman in Dimitrovgrad, was convinced communist and antititovist. Then a teacher in Simeonovgrad. There Professor Krusty Manchev present his latest book "Bloody end to Yugoslavia last week. Greatness in the Balkans has always been measured in areas - the more you have, so its a great, "he said. On the contrary - the more educated, working, knowledgeable and capable people is one, as covered in your state, then its really great.



- Do you approve appointments Minister for Bulgarians living abroad?

- A policy that it is, must accept the existing realities may not be successful in conflict with the existing realities. Macedonia is an existing reality. And there, in that Macedonia can have someone who wants to be Bulgarian. But the majority are Macedonians, so they say, or at least that is what I know. This is reality and it must be accepted. I personally, if you ask me, have not approved the Minister for Bulgarians outside Bulgaria. Well, she imagine that Turkey has appointed Minister of the Turks in Bulgaria. How it will look like - someone their minister to deal with them? So it looks like now in Macedonia Bozidar.


- He definitely irritate them. It was declared a reward if found strong evidence for the existence of Macedonian nation.

- For what Macedonian nation to find documents? Well they have them! Me and him told him: In 1903, one Misirkov Krusty, who issued a book "For Macedonian affairs. But it was issued in Sofia and there are claims that the Bulgarians, Serbs, such onakiva no, we are one floor. There is a great Serbian scientist says Stoyan Novakovic, at the end of the XIX century it was said. They are neither Serbs nor Bulgarians. That argument is a bit of Macedonianism in favor of Serbia then. Now it is up to date because it is Macedonianism antisrabski. We must grasp quite well. It is not prosrabski nor probalgarski, he is a Macedonian nationalism. This is Macedonianism. AND Stojan Novakovic said back then - they are neither Bulgarians nor Serbs, they are a separate thing. However, we will maintain this claim because it would separate them from Bulgaria and Macedonia will help to become part of Serbia. I do not see any other perspective than we admit it and work in this direction and not vice versa.

What this case is now with Spaska Mitreva? Man and woman quarrel, divorce is a child. There is a court which deals with who right who wrong. The Bulgarian state has a job to deal with this? To decide their fates. And she is right because it has declared a Bulgarian. And why it has declared a Bulgarian? Well, he knows that the Bulgarian state will stand behind it. So I see it. And committed to the highest level ... Even the Prime Minister had statements. And then certainly I know some people there want Bulgarian passports of selfish reasons to come here in Bulgaria because we are a member of the EU, not so much because they are Bulgarians.


- Their policy is not it a bit so infantile. They are the smallest nation in the Balkans, but seem to have the most claims?

- I can not say I have the most claims. They are in a severe situation. Greece wants them, we claim, though they conceal, Albania is beyond - a third of Macedonians are Albanians. It may not have claims, but the population is Albanian and had requested that this population be in alliance with the Albanians and make common state. Furthermore, it is Indian country. This is what I can remotely see and say.


- Or in Australia had their Minister nationalistic speeches and President Parvanov said that our support for Macedonia will not be unconditional.

- Well, if you said this is not good. What we want to do then? I seal it? Then it will always be against us. I do not accept it. How can so to speak? Do not take it! See what government policy is also made by the people. They can make and stuff. But we have never been civil society to take a stand. To say stop, you're doing here and download them to change policy. We always went after their rulers.

http://e-vestnik.bg/7608/prof-krastyo-manchev-natsionalizmat-e-vaditsa-za-naivni-hora/

The rest of the article goes on about Batak Massacre which is related to a Turkish incident. Onur might be interested.

[Onur]

http://e-vestnik.bg/7608/prof-krastyo-manchev-natsionalizmat-e-vaditsa-za-naivni-hora/

The rest of the article goes on about Batak Massacre which is related to a Turkish incident. Onur might be interested.

Thanks for the link Bill. I didn't even know what was the "Batak massacre", so i read it up. Wikipedia article says that the Turks killed 15.000 Bulgars by chopping the heads of 5000 people while they hide inside a church!!!

This Bulgarian scholar says that it`s virtually impossible for something like that really happened. He says that these stories are basically fake and made up to feed anti-Turkish propaganda among people to accelerate national rise up in the Balkan countries and speed up the process of the destruction of Ottoman Empire.

He also oppose the idea of Balkan people being slaves of the Turks in Ottoman era. He notes that there was many rich Bulgars, landowners, schools, churches and other institutions under Ottoman regime and slavery of people was out of question.



Btw, google translation is quite bad but it seems that Bulgaria created some kind of ministry for the Bulgarians in Macedonia and they are trying to convince people to declare themselves as Bulgarians by giving them Bulgarian passports. Did you aware of this? IMHO, this is simply an insult to ROM.

The scholar gives a good example to that by saying if Turkey would do the same for the one million Turks living in Bulgaria, then how would Bulgarian politicians react to that.

[Bill77]

Thanks for the link Bill. I didn't even know what was the "Batak massacre", so i read it up. Wikipedia article says that the Turks killed 15.000 Bulgars by chopping the heads of 5000 people while they hide inside a church!!!

This Bulgarian scholar says that it`s virtually impossible for something like that really happened. He says that these stories are basically fake and made up to feed anti-Turkish propaganda among people to accelerate national rise up in the Balkan countries and speed up the process of the destruction of Ottoman Empire.

He also oppose the idea of Balkan people being slaves of the Turks in Ottoman era. He notes that there was many rich Bulgars, landowners, schools, churches and other institutions under Ottoman regime and slavery of people was out of question.



Btw, google translation is quite bad but it seems that Bulgaria created some kind of ministry for the Bulgarians in Macedonia and they are trying to convince people to declare themselves as Bulgarians by giving them Bulgarian passports. Did you aware of this? IMHO, this is simply an insult to ROM.

The scholar gives a good example to that by saying if Turkey would do the same for the one million Turks living in Bulgaria, then how would Bulgarian politicians react to that.

Thanks Onur, your work of deciphering the google junk is pretty good. thanks to your post, reading back makes more sense now.

A) he makes a good point about 15,000 people fitting in the church was impossible.

B) Regarding the passports, another good point. What would the Bulgars do if Turkey were to do the same in Bulgaria? they would squeal like little bitches.

But in the case of the Macedonians, the Prof understands the Macedonians apply for passports for selfish reasons to enter Bulgaria because they are a member of the EU, not so much because they feel Bulgarian.

I understand the Professor bags the bulgarians for the Mitreva case and admits (in his opinion) that she only applied for Bulgar citizenship knowing that mickey mouse nation would make a song and dance about it.

[Onur]

B) Regarding the passports, another good point. What would the Bulgars do if Turkey were to do the same in Bulgaria? they would squeal like little bitches.

But in the case of the Macedonians, the Prof understands the Macedonians apply for passports for selfish reasons to enter Bulgaria because they are a member of the EU, not so much because they feel Bulgarian.

I understand the Professor bags the bulgarians for the Mitreva case and admits (in his opinion) that she only applied for Bulgar citizenship knowing that mickey mouse nation would make a song and dance about it.

Yes. This same cheap tactic also done by Greeks in Cyprus few years ago. As soon as they entered EU as a representer of whole island, they called all citizens of Turkish republic of Cyprus to get Greek Cypriot passports, so they can be the citizens of EU but only ~120 Turkish people out of 300.000 took their passports. Greeks failed miserably with this tactic and i hope same thing happens for stupid Bulgars too.

I see both Greeks and Bulgars abusing their EU membership status for their own goals and trying to influence people`s mind with the mythical dream of EU.

[Bill77]

Yes. This same cheap tactic also done by Greeks in Cyprus few years ago. As soon as they entered EU as a representer of whole island, they called all citizens of Turkish republic of Cyprus to get Greek Cypriot passports, so they can be the citizens of EU but only ~120 Turkish people out of 300.000 took their passports. Greeks failed miserably with this tactic and i hope same thing happens for stupid Bulgars too.

120 to many. Just like those Macedonians that took up the Bulgarian offer, bloody sell outs even if it was only a selfish decision
and not because they feel Bulgarian.