Greece offers 'war relief' to Greek-origin Ukrainians

[Poligiros]

"However, these people become pure Hellenes within 10 years, I remember the Russo-Pontians that came in the late 90s, most had a Hellenic grandfather, they are very Hellenic today as a their children." You cant change people's ethnicity or your imagination runs wild you are suddenly a hellene.Its all made up myths and legends to deceive the greek people .It like hitler telling the german people they are the supreme aryan race,

The posters misunderstood my "pure Hellene" context. What I was stating was that the "Russo-Pontian" people were mainly Russian, had a Greek ancestor or 2 down the line and within 10 years became very assimilated into "pure Hellenes" that fit in well. In the context of the topic, I think its a smart move to offer the Ukrainian Greeks asylum.

[Poligiros]

And even if there were Greek versions, what gives them the right to modify records and change the names of our ancestors?

How can we rely on these records (as poor naive Poligiros suggests we should) when researching our ancestors and their ethnic identity?

I read Greek quite proficiently. Apart from changing names by adding "is" "os" suffix, the main point the I picked up was the village name "mpouf" that sounds foreign to me. Once again, I don't agree with any forced assimilation or changing names. If someone wanted to get baptized on the Greek Orthodox church, there is obviously a set of admissible names as Amphipolis pointed out. Albanians that I know will take on "Alexandros" from Refi or "Michalis" from Monde.

In addition, George who didnt' believe the records that I was referring to, when Niko just posted an example from another village with the same field format. George, I will enquire about the upkeep of the outer leather bindings of births, deaths and marriage records next time I go to my village.

[Poligiros]

Although not as numerous, I still see remnants of Macedonian names such as Stogianni (Macedonian: Stojan) and Giankoulos (Jankulo) as well as original Macedonian village names (the name Agios Prodromos is from 1927, before that the village was known in Greek as "Resetnikia" which comes from the Macedonian Reshetnik).

Agios Prodromos is a surrounding village to Polygyros. I was aware of all the towns having Turkish place names, you are now telling me that it had a Macedonian sounding name previously? Were there Macedonian speakers located in that village?

Can you inform me about my village of Polygyros?

[Niko777]

Agios Prodromos is a surrounding village to Polygyros. I was aware of all the towns having Turkish place names, you are now telling me that it had a Macedonian sounding name previously? Were there Macedonian speakers located in that village?

Can you inform me about my village of Polygyros?

Perhaps there were Macedonian speakers many centuries ago. Last traces of the Macedonian language on Halkidiki was recorded by a traveler from Ohrid going to Mount Athos for a pilgrimage in the year 1850. He heard some peasants who were working in a field singing a song in a Slavic language. When he stopped to ask them they replied that this was a song from their ancestors and that they no longer speak the language, nor understood what the song was saying.

I already pointed out some Macedonian personal names from the link posted by Amphipolis. Other villages with Macedonian names on Halkidiki were Toplik (Ieroplatanos), Novoselo (Neohori), Izvor (Stratoniki), Lukovo (Taxiharis), Lerigovo (Arnaia), Revenik (Megali Panagia) etc. These are Macedonian words, not Turkish. You weren't "aware" before?? Well now you are.

[Niko777]

I read Greek quite proficiently. Apart from changing names by adding "is" "os" suffix, the main point the I picked up was the village name "mpouf" that sounds foreign to me.

You should of picked up many foreign names from that list, not just the the village name.

[Poligiros]

Perhaps there were Macedonian speakers many centuries ago. Last traces of the Macedonian language on Halkidiki was recorded by a traveler from Ohrid going to Mount Athos for a pilgrimage in the year 1850. He heard some peasants who were working in a field singing a song in a Slavic language. When he stopped to ask them they replied that this was a song from their ancestors and that they no longer speak the language, nor understood what the song was saying.

I already pointed out some Macedonian personal names from the link posted by Amphipolis. Other villages with Macedonian names on Halkidiki were Toplik (Ieroplatanos), Novoselo (Neohori), Izvor (Stratoniki), Lukovo (Taxiharis), Lerigovo (Arnaia), Revenik (Megali Panagia) etc. These are Macedonian words, not Turkish. You weren't "aware" before?? Well now you are.

My family are aware of "some" Bulgarian families that resided in surrounding villages in the 1800s. Now, I am not being rude but I don't know why you would claim these self-identifying Bulgarians from the 1800s as Macedonian? They were limited in numbers. In addition, I believe they were extradited back to Bulgaria in the early 1900s during the wars. You will find there are similar numbers of Hellenes in Bulgaria and Republic of Macedonia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_in_the_Republic_of_Macedonia

"The controversy surrounding a Greek minority within the Republic of Macedonia stems from the statistical treatment of Aromanian (Vlach) population groups, who in their majority have historically identified themselves as Greeks as part of the Rum millet.A large number of Greek-identifying Vlachs left the region after the Balkan Wars, with Florina in Greece witnessing the arrival of a large Greek-speaking commercial population from Monastiri (Bitola).Ethnologue however cites Greek as an "immigrant language" in the Republic of Macedonia.[15]

Representatives of Aromanian Associations of Bitola, Krusevo and Gevgelija take place in the Panhellenic Reunion of Aromanians every year and representatives of Sarakatsani Association of Skopje take place in the Panhellenic Congress of Sarakatsani, every two years

[Amphipolis]

I still think the names were modified. Either they were modified back then when they were recorded, or they were modified today when someone entered them in a computer. Names like Stoitsos never existed, the person's name was always Stoicho. Therefore we have to consider this when we read the other names like Giorgos, Petros, etc.

Nope, read this to see how Slavic (or Sthlavic) names are written in Greek (or Hellenized in your opinion) during 1000-1200 AD. This is in Greek, English summary in last page.

http://histsociety.web.auth.gr/%CE%94%CE%B1%CF%80%CE%AD%CF%81%CE%B3%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B1%CF%82-28.pdf

The guy has written 2 or 3 similar studies, including Names and Toponyms as Proofs of Slavic Settlements in Eastern Chalkidike, etc . This is the only one I could find on line and refers to the area of Pagaeon and the era 600-1200 AD (I think). It includes name lists of "parikos" (foreign farm workers) from monastery documents etc.

I have Turkish documents from Aegean Macedonia. The Turks recorded Macedonian names exactly as how they sounded like. They didn't change people's names or add a suffix to them as the Greeks did.

Nope, there’s a thread where we tried to know more about the Macedonian politicians elected in the first and last attempt of Ottoman State for a Parliament in 1910. A man with a name like Ioannis Asimakopoulos would probably appear as Yianni Efenti etc. It seemed that Turks called every prominent person Efenti (Boss)

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[Niko777]

My family are aware of "some" Bulgarian families that resided in surrounding villages in the 1800s. Now, I am not being rude but I don't know why you would claim these self-identifying Bulgarians from the 1800s as Macedonian?

Oh so now your family is "aware".... and they are "self-identifying" Bulgarians??? Did your family tell you this as well? At least you admitted that Macedonians exist on Halkidiki but please do not call our people Bulgarians or you will be banned.

They were limited in numbers. In addition, I believe they were extradited back to Bulgaria in the early 1900s during the wars.

Extradited "back" to Bulgaria??? What are you trying to imply, that we came from Bulgaria??? First of all I doubt anyone from Halkidiki were sent to Bulgaria because the Bulgarian exarchate never established itself there. My guess is Macedonians on Halkidiki were already assimilated by the 1900s.

[Niko777]

Nope, read this to see how Slavic (or Sthlavic) names are written in Greek (or Hellenized in your opinion) during 1000-1200 AD.

1000-1200AD was a different period, thats not how Greeks were writing Macedonian names by the late 19th century.

The guy has written 2 or 3 similar studies, including Names and Toponyms as Proofs of Slavic Settlements in Eastern Chalkidike, etc .

Thank you at least someone in Greece is acknowledging the topomyms and etymology of Halkidiki.

Nope, there’s a thread where we tried to know more about the Macedonian politicians elected in the first and last attempt of Ottoman State for a Parliament in 1910. A man with a name like Ioannis Asimakopoulos would probably appear as Yianni Efenti etc. It seemed that Turks called every prominent person Efenti (Boss)

Yes but now you're talking about someone who was a politician and held a title. From what I've seen, average Macedonian peasants who's names were recorded on tax documents and transaction documents were just recorded by their first name followed by the first name of their father.

[Amphipolis]

1000-1200AD was a different period, thats not how Greeks were writing Macedonian names by the late 19th century.

The idea is exactly the same, that when a Slavic or non-Slavic foreign name is written in Greek there's an adaptation out of fashion, convention or necessity. Even now that I have to write some of these Slavic names in Hellenized form (but in Latin script) I will have to choose a transliteration convention and something will be lost or changed. That medieval document records names as:

Stanilas, Tzyrilos (which reveals how Slavs pronounced Cyril), Stlavotas, Sthlankos, Nesnastros, Dovrotas, Dragnitza (Δραγνίτζα), Nedanos (Νεδάνος), Verhovlavos and many many more in the document.

Yes but now you're talking about someone who was a politician and held a title. From what I've seen, average Macedonian peasants who's names were recorded on tax documents and transaction documents were just recorded by their first name followed by the first name of their father.

It is normal to a degree. Turks would call Thessaloniki as Selanik and Constantinople as Istanbul because that was easier in their language. The Greeks call Beijing as Pekino and so on.


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[Amphipolis]

Extradited "back" to Bulgaria??? What are you trying to imply, that we came from Bulgaria???

Watch out Poligiros, cause they will send you back where you came from.

First of all I doubt anyone from Halkidiki were sent to Bulgaria because the Bulgarian exarchate never established itself there. My guess is Macedonians on Halkidiki were already assimilated by the 1900s.

Macedonians of Chalcidice were assimilated to what?


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[Dejan]

To something non-Macedonian? Greek?

[Niko777]

Macedonians of Chalcidice were assimilated to what?

To the Hellenization efforts on Macedonian peasants by the Patriarchate of Constantinople through its Eparchy of Kassandra. This part of Macedonia along with southeastern Macedonia was never part of the Archbishopric of Ohrid, so Macedonians were the first to be Hellenized in these areas. By 1900 these Macedonians were almost completely Hellenized, the only markers surviving which pointed to their Macedonian past were village names, village dress, and sometimes personal names (Family names like Stogiannis point to Macedonian ancestry from the name Stoyan, for example).

[Soldier of Macedon]

I need clarification here. You mention (above) forced Hellenization of anything "Slav" in Aegean Macedonian villages e.g. writing. I get threatened with a ban for mentioning "Slav" in quotes, as an example in context.

In George's case it's a poor choice of words, in your case the intent is sinister, not context.

The crux on this forum is that most of you are fiercely proud of your "slavonic" alphabet, language, place names....

The crux of this forum is the promotion of the Macedonian perspective. And it's not a "Slavonic" alphabet, it's Cyrillic. To Macedonians, the term "Slavonic" (in proper context) refers to the sacred or liturgical language that was standardised in the 9th century.

....there are millions of Hellenic people of Aegean Macedonia who speak a modern Hellenic dialect......

Most of which were resettled there from Turkey in the 1920's.

.....have been there for generations and don't feel an affinity to "Slavonic".

And?

I see on your greater Macedonia maps, a "slavonic" place name for my village. How did that come about?

It's a Macedonian place name. If your ancestors weren't brainwashed they would be able to answer that question for you.

The posters misunderstood my "pure Hellene" context. What I was stating was that the "Russo-Pontian" people were mainly Russian, had a Greek ancestor or 2 down the line and within 10 years became very assimilated into "pure Hellenes" that fit in well.

You seem to be either confused or uninformed. Earlier I recommended that you look up the definition of the word 'millennium', while you're at it, look up the word 'pure' also.

My family are aware of "some" Bulgarian families that resided in surrounding villages in the 1800s. Now, I am not being rude but I don't know why you would claim these self-identifying Bulgarians from the 1800s as Macedonian?

Because they were Christians who lived in Macedonia and spoke Macedonian as their native language. If labels such as "Bulgarian" or "Greek" were attached to them it was due to their social class or religious affiliation. That is our stand on our own people. You know this. Don't push it.

You will find there are similar numbers of Hellenes in Bulgaria and Republic of Macedonia.

Those that allegedly claim to be 'Greeks' are but a few from the 10,000 strong Vlach community, who are a recognised ethnic minority and have all their cultural, linguistic and religious rights protected. Most of the few real Greeks in the Macedonian republic are tourists, so don't insult our intelligence and water down our situation by equating those people with the real and actual indigenous Macedonian minority in modern Greece.