United Macedonia Diaspora

[Vangelovski]

how many members are there in this organisation? And dont quote facebook because I have 1500 "friends " on there. My guess is 500. Worldwide.

The worldwide membership figure was revealed recently at 300 (if memory serves)

[Soldier of Macedon]

Julie - can you elaborate when UMD supported the MPO?

Don't play stupid Meto. I have reached the limit of my tolerance with liars like you who blatantly deny their own idiocy.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I asked you three simple questions, and you decided to dodge all three of them.

I'll repeat them again:


1. My objectivity and rationale decided to support AMHRC campaign.
Do you have a problem with that? (yes or no)

2. Do you think that an organisation/government/dog club/investment group (regardless of mission) will always do/say the right thing and fulfill every member or non-member wishes? (yes or no)

3. Do think its possible for individuals to objectively judge each separate action that an organisation does? (yes or no)


--------------

Yes, it has all been clear with me as to why UMD did not officially support the campaign - I got my answers and that's what matters for me.

Its irrelevant whether someone agrees with me or not when I question certain arguments in this thread. I'm not dependent on others to agree with me, are you?

Aren't you advocating constructive discussions where different set of opinions are welcomed, or are you advocating some totalitarian way of style where everyone must have the same opinion?

Again, if you wish to take a constructive debate of the difference between an "advocate" and someone who uses "objectivity", let me know.



Regards,
CT


--

Oh please, like I need to 'dodge' your questions, your rationale to support the AMHRC and your acceptance that all has 'been cleared' from the UMD's side doesn't correlate, but then again, why should it, all of you UMD apologists are fumbling and contradicting characters. Regarding your second question, what's your point? Are you saying all UMD members should expect to be let down by the UMD itself? What exactly are the wishes of those members and why weren't the UMD able to fulfil them? Why is it that every UMD apologist like yourself, Buktop and the small handful of morons that have visited the MTO seem to know exactly why and how the UMD operate? Your third question is irrelevant, because that should be the norm for every situation, and not just when you see it fit.

I advocate for everything that is in the best interests of Macedonia and the Macedonian people. The UMD have shown themselves to be against such views time and again. I am not interested in self-glorified press statements. I couldn't give a shit if Meto sent you a few 'feel-good' PM's to have another sheep convinced that all has 'been cleared'. You can express whatever view you like, but your current one is the wrong one, and you will be reminded of this fact each time somebody posts here. Again, has it clicked in your head why everybody is saying and thinking the opposite to yourself?

By the way, how did Meto convince you that all has 'been cleared'?

[Currency Trader]

CT wrote:

2. Do you think that an organisation/government/dog club/investment group (regardless of mission) will always do/say the right thing and fulfill every member or non-member wishes? (yes or no)

Yes, except where there is a systematic history of actions that go against a normal Macedonian's belief system. Which applies in this case.

I would disagree - Governments, organisations (regardless of their mission) will most likely never fulfill every member and non-members wishes, or do what they say. A case in point is the Macedonian government and past governments.

"Normal" Macedonian's belief system?
Would you care to expand on what constitutes a "normal Macedonian belief system"?

History is filled with divisions among Macedonians. Be it in Rep. of Macedonia or diaspora Macedonians. If there were something as "normal", then divisions would hardly exist. Or do you have something else in-mind?



-

[Currency Trader]

How about we start with the cause as defined by the MTO?

Yes, go ahead.
Besides being an internet webforum, what kind of work does MTO do in comparison to other Macedonian diaspora organisations, and what influence does MTO have? Perhaps this can be discussed in another thread.


-

[Currency Trader]

The worldwide membership figure was revealed recently at 300 (if memory serves)

Is this the UMD worldwide membership. If so, how accurate is this number and how many sources can confirm this?

[Risto the Great]

CT wrote:
I would disagree - Governments, organisations (regardless of their mission) will most likely never fulfill every member and non-members wishes, or do what they say. A case in point is the Macedonian government and past governments.

"Normal" Macedonian's belief system?
Would you care to expand on what constitutes a "normal Macedonian belief system"?

History is filled with divisions among Macedonians. Be it in Rep. of Macedonia or diaspora Macedonians. If there were something as "normal", then divisions would hardly exist. Or do you have something else in-mind?-

Are you absolutely comfortable making the comparison between a government and UMD? Is everything alright back home mate?

Call me crazy but "normal" Macedonians have not advocated a name change publicly then pretend they never said it.

[Risto the Great]

If the assumption is that UMD has less of a following in Australia, then there could be more risk if they listed other organisations.

No, the fact is that the UMD has a miniscule following in comparison to key stakeholder communities. If you feel that it has a following, then it is because of what it does on the internet. And the MTO does it better.

Thanks for agreeing that they did indeed take the path of less risk.

[Risto the Great]

Is this the UMD worldwide membership. If so, how accurate is this number and how many sources can confirm this?

Ask them and see how candid their response will be.

[BigMak]

Don't play stupid Meto. I have reached the limit of my tolerance with liars like you who blatantly deny their own idiocy.

Yes I agree what a ridiculous immature response from meto.

[BigMak]

While I'm on, METO can you clarify how many members the UMD has as a total, please do not include Facebook and non member affiliates etc.

If you can be more specific and without answering a question with a question please breakdown the membership stats via region or country.

I hope you can be mature about this and provide actual stats and not some wet dream

[Vangelovski]

Yes, go ahead.
Besides being an internet webforum, what kind of work does MTO do in comparison to other Macedonian diaspora organisations, and what influence does MTO have? Perhaps this can be discussed in another thread.


-

Yes, go ahead with what?

If you paid any attention, you'll notice that a number of democratically elected leaders of some of the largest Australian Macedonian organisations are regular posters on MTO and their views (along with those of the communities they represent) directly contradict Meto's UMD, as does the MTO consolidated definition of the cause.

[Vangelovski]

Is this the UMD worldwide membership. If so, how accurate is this number and how many sources can confirm this?

As a founding member, I can confirm that UMD worldwide membership when I left in early 2008 was 80. Rogi, who was a Board Member until early this year I think, confirmed that UMD's worldwide membership was only 300.

[Currency Trader]

Oh please, like I need to 'dodge' your questions, your rationale to support the AMHRC and your acceptance that all has 'been cleared' from the UMD's side doesn't correlate, but then again, why should it, all of you UMD apologists are fumbling and contradicting characters.

If you didn't dodge my questions, why not answer them in the first place instead of selectively choosing your responses?

And you keep failing to even answer the first question with a simple yes or no - Do you have a problem that I support AMHRC campaign?

Negative - there are no contradictions as you claim. If so, I'd like you to provide factual back-up, can you do that? - The real issue here is that your world doesn't accept the fact that people can judge each action taken by an organisation separately. That means organisations are seldom perfect regardless of what they do. Mistakes and differences of opinion will most likely always be there.

Regarding your second question, what's your point?

The point is that members or non-members opinions, expectations or wishes, may not always be in-line with the work or decisions made by organisations at certain point in time. Given this reality, one should be able to judge each action taken by an organisation separately. That means some decisions may be criticized from the membership/non-members without being labeled as "contradicting characters".

Why is it that every UMD apologist like yourself, Buktop and the small handful of morons that have visited the MTO seem to know exactly why and how the UMD operate?

I didn't know I was a UMD apologist. What I do know is that I put questions to any organisation or individual who makes decisions or statements that I find interesting. Let me take this in plain english for you: Regardless of what they do, what they stand for, good or bad, I will reserve the individual rigth to question anything. Provided that they are willing to answer.

You seem to suggest that I know exactly why and how the UMD operate. Could you provide some example or factual back-up for your claim?

Secondly, is your role as admin to slander people who come to MTO?
In this thread, you are have taken this role exclusively. No other individual has taken this road.

Your third question is irrelevant, because that should be the norm for every situation, and not just when you see it fit.

Negative - its highly relevant in this case, especially for you. If you accept it as "norm", then what's your problem with people who praise good actions/decisions made, while at the same time question/criticize the very same organisation?

You seem to be stuck in a world where individuals cannot criticize the very same organisation that is also doing good things. If they do, you call them "contradicting characters", or "UMD apologists".

You can express whatever view you like, but your current one is the wrong one, and you will be reminded of this fact each time somebody posts here.

Its irrelevant whether someone agrees with me or not when I question certain arguments in this thread. I'm not dependent on others to agree with me, are you? - You will remind me of my supposedly wrongsided opinion each time somebody posts here. That's mature and constructive.

Again, has it clicked in your head why everybody is saying and thinking the opposite to yourself?

Besides your fellow admins - no not really.
Are you looking to advocate constructive discussions where different set of opinions are welcomed, or are you advocating some totalitarian way of style where everyone must have the same opinion?

By the way, how did Meto convince you that all has 'been cleared'?

Considering your statement below you don't deserve an answer. First you don't give a shit, now you do - You said something about "fumbling and contradicting characters" before.


SoM said:
I couldn't give a shit if Meto sent you a few 'feel-good' PM's to have another sheep convinced that all has 'been cleared'



-------------

Lastly,

Do you mind telling me what you do for living, and what education level you hold? If you don't mind of course.



-

[Currency Trader]

Are you absolutely comfortable making the comparison between a government and UMD? Is everything alright back home mate?

Call me crazy but "normal" Macedonians have not advocated a name change publicly then pretend they never said it.

The point is, whichever organised structure, be it governments or NGO's etc, there will be decisions made not representing 100% of the membership/non-members.

Ok, but what is the "normal Macedonian belief system"? I have never heard of this system before. You talked about this, can you expand. Besides whatever someone has advocated or not.


--