United Macedonia Diaspora

[Prolet]

Nice to see my own forum stalker back

Zrinski, Phoenix is not a bad person no need to be so upset with him. His contribution in this forum is very well respected, he even said Spolaj Ti to you i think thats being polite.

[Prolet]

The thing that people also need to see is that the Albanians probably hate the Framework agreement more then we do. They've stated this many times, some even want to terminate the agreement.

[Buktop]

Firstly, the claims of "destablisation or even war" need to be qualified.

If we are going to proceed with a detailed analysis of what Macedonia should do, then first we need to analyse these so-called limitations and or restrictions that keep getting thrown around, but are never qualified in any detailed manner.

Rogi, I have, on numerous occasions, detailed the possible economic ramifications, and I have also given suggestions and a time frame to avoid those ramifications, the problem being the governments lack of will to complete several crucial projects that are already underway, as well as their lack of will to initiate newer projects that would prove to be even more beneficial.

I am sure you saw the article that XRVOL posted on Maknews about the rail lines to Bulgaria.

[Prolet]

Buktop,That section is probably my favorite out of the forum, its a shame that not many people contribute as much as they used to i think it was Rogi's idea to open it. I got some news in now i'll be posting it there, it would be good to have people giving their two cents worth.

[Buktop]

Buktop,That section is probably my favorite out of the forum, its a shame that not many people contribute as much as they used to i think it was Rogi's idea to open it. I got some news in now i'll be posting it there, it would be good to have people giving their two cents worth.

I was trying to Prolet but when I try to submit my replies, it is giving me a "Submitted Form was Invalid" error, I don't know why...

[Rogi]

Buktop, Unless I am mistaken, I believe you posted what you thought were possible economic ramifactions in relation to a withdrawal from the Interim Accord, not the Framework Agreement?

Notwithstanding this, the discussion has not yet moved on to the 'possible economic ramifications', which we can get to, but rather we are first to determine or qualify the suggested claims of 'destabilisation or even war'.

[Buktop]

Buktop, Unless I am mistaken, I believe you posted what you thought were possible economic ramifactions in relation to a withdrawal from the Interim Accord, not the Framework Agreement?

Notwithstanding this, the discussion has not yet moved on to the 'possible economic ramifications', which we can get to, but rather we are first to determine or qualify the suggested claims of 'destabilisation or even war'.

I had also made several comments on the possibility of civil unrest should we remove ourselves from the framework agreement, it also holds economic ramifications as well due to instability and negative impacts on FDI.

I am interested in learning why you don't believe there is a possibility for violent protest from the Albanians if we get rid of the Framework.

[Risto the Great]

I am interested in learning why you don't believe there is a possibility for violent protest from the Albanians if we get rid of the Framework.

I am yet to understand why we never saw violent protests from Macedonians when the Framework was introduced.

[Pelister]

I am yet to understand why we never saw violent protests from Macedonians when the Framework was introduced.

I'm not sure the Macedonians really understood what was happening, and what the agreement was about. Most still probably don't fully understand what it means for us to our detriment.

[Risto the Great]

I'm not sure the Macedonians really understood what was happening, and what the agreement was about. Most still probably don't fully understand what it means for us to our detriment.

I think you are right Pelister. This is why the politicians must never be left to make decisions like this in back rooms again.

[Buktop]

I am yet to understand why we never saw violent protests from Macedonians when the Framework was introduced.

Because those who weren't directly affected by the measures didn't really care about those who were affected.

You can believe me, there were protests in the west of Macedonia, it just didn't matter to everyone else. The level of apathy in Macedonia towards law making and government policy is really astonishing. I spoke with the ex-Ambassador to Yugoslavia, Bulgaria and Bosnia, Robert Barry yesterday about what he thought, and he said something that really hit a chord.

He said that the level of discontent and distrust of the government, discourages involvement, voting, and interest in policy making, especially to the younger generations. So basically, the worst people get the job by default because the people smart enough to make the right choices don't bother to do so.

This is how people like Franjo Tudjman, Alija Izebegovic, and Branko Crvenkovski become leaders.

[osiris]

why is that so buktop. i think its a legacy of the political culture of the yugoslav era.

[Buktop]

I think you are right Pelister. This is why the politicians must never be left to make decisions like this in back rooms again.

Many decisions are made publicly and all the details are provided, it is a lack of interest from the citizens that allow these policies to pass without a hitch.

[Buktop]

why is that so buktop. i think its a legacy of the political culture of the yugoslav era.

Well he led me to believe that it did involve them being unprepared to take on the responsibilities after so many years of having the government control everything, but it also has to do with the fact that people have no alternatives, there is no incentive for them to get involved. There is no motivation, especially after so many years of corruptions, scandals, and lack of a single government that was able to cater to the needs of the people, or even to simply ask what the people wanted.

It is very sad.

[osiris]

i think he was right people in the so called socialist nations were so powerless to contribute they became utterly cynical and disengaged totally from the political process.