United Macedonia Diaspora

[vodenka]

Thanks for the response, I hope your efforts will bring positives for the Macedonian Cause. However, the below statement:

I am not sure what to make of it. Is that the way you distinguish between the Macedonian part wrongfully acquired by Greece and the Macedonian part in the republic? I hope not.

No, I mean some Egejci activists who prefer to make their "borba" from there, instead of being here with us to struggle in each macedonian town and village. Anyway, we cannot all be or think the same way, right?

[Silver]

Thanks for the response, I hope your efforts will bring positives for the Macedonian Cause. However, the below statement:

I am not sure what to make of it. Is that the way you distinguish between the Macedonian part wrongfully acquired by Greece and the Macedonian part in the republic? I hope not.

Excellent point SoM. Vodenka, would you please clearly explain what you mean or to what you are referring as Skopje, Macedonia?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Vodenka, perhaps you should check this page, the links and the clips. I am a Macedonian in the Diaspora and I do not find statements as the above an acceptable representation of the Macedonian sentiment outside of the republic. Obtain a better understanding of what's really going on here before the next time you involve yourself in discussions relating to the UMD and its relationship of the people it apparently 'represents'.

[Soldier of Macedon]

No, I mean some Egejci activists who prefer to make their "borba" from there, instead of being here with us to struggle in each macedonian town and village. Anyway, we cannot all be or think the same way, right?

No we cannot, but we can certainly agree on some common factors, such as the kinship between Macedonians from all parts of Macedonia. Don't you agree?

Something still puzzles me, I am unsure about why you would make such a distinction between these two parts of Macedonia. Are you making reference to the Republic of Macedonia as "Skopje, Macedonia" because some Egejci choose to carry out activities there rather than in the Macedonian part in Greece? Is that supposed to be an insult towards them?

[vodenka]

Vodenka, perhaps you should check this page, the links and the clips. I am a Macedonian in the Diaspora and I do not find statements as the above an acceptable representation of the Macedonian sentiment outside of the republic. Obtain a better understanding of what's really going on here before the next time you involve yourself in discussions relating to the UMD and its relationship of the people it apparently 'represents'.

I do not follow all the activities of UMD or any other macedonian organization. I try to get some information about them through internet and I am very happy when they are successful. I do not get in particularities on ideological matters or how they are working on the ground as I have no possibility to have a complete image of the situation in Australia, Canada, etc. Even if some time I may disagree on some statements, it does not make me be negative on their work on the whole. I keep what is good. I could not follow every macedonian organization on their daily activities: this is impossible. And I am also busy with my activities, too. As about representation, each organization may represent only their members and followers, of course.
Next month we will start a new term of Macedonian language classes for 4 groups, in Voden and one more place (not Solun) I prefer not to tell now (maybe after the classes are over, and pls do not ask why).

[vodenka]

No we cannot, but we can certainly agree on some common factors, such as the kinship between Macedonians from all parts of Macedonia. Don't you agree?

Something still puzzles me, I am unsure about why you would make such a distinction between these two parts of Macedonia. Are you making reference to the Republic of Macedonia as "Skopje, Macedonia" because some Egejci choose to carry out activities there rather than in the Macedonian part in Greece? Is that supposed to be an insult towards them?

Look, I wrote Skopje meaning the capital city of Macedonia (if I had wrtitten Skopje(plain) you would have asked me if I call the country Skopje like the greeks do!) because I know they are there, in that city.
My oppinion is that some Egejci sell patriotism in Skopje and use this to get business and preveleges. I do not like this kind of people, that's all. If someone decides to do some activism, he must be able to do it, too. If he needs to do just business, he has to stop kidding himself and the others, as human rights activist.

[Bratot]

Look, I wrote Skopje meaning the capital city of Macedonia (if I had wrtitten Skopje(plain) you would have asked me if I call the country Skopje like the greeks do!) because I know they are there, in that city.
My oppinion is that some Egejci sell patriotism in Skopje and use this to get business and preveleges. I do not like this kind of people, that's all. If someone decides to do some activism, he must be able to do it, too. If he needs to do just business, he has to stop kidding himself and the others, as human rights activist.

In simple words you despise those ppl.

But I would be honored if you can backup those accusations and to point out who is doing that and how.
It's very important to know who are we dealing, we don't need such clowns parading in front of our cause.

I would just take my freedom to correct you in one segment, the activism is not tenable with no resources such as money.

For you to publish or print matherial for your school or to make CD copies or renting a classroom and simmilar things the business aside is a necessity.

[vodenka]

In simple words you despise those ppl.

But I would be honored if you can backup those accusations and to point out who is doing that and how.
It's very important to know who are we dealing, we don't need such clowns parading in front of our cause.

I would just take my freedom to correct you in one segment, the activism is not tenable with no resources such as money.

For you to publish or print matherial for your school or to make CD copies or renting a classroom and simmilar things the business aside is a necessity.

You can see by yourselves who is just talking and who is doing something, even little things that bring results to our people. I am tired of hearing of megalomaniac project and in the same time I can see our people struggling for being able to sing freely, on association's events. They can sing. allright, but not in front of officials (mayors, parliamentaries, ect). Why? When will we be able to declare our identity with no fear but with pride? What are we waiting for? The Republic of Macedonia to be recognized with its constitutional name? But is 20 years now and we are still stuck with this and we are doing nothing!

We spent € 1,200, in one year and for organizing the classes. We made our point that when there is a will there is a way, with few resources. For us is very important the people to understand that they must save our language which is still alive in our villages: if our people getto know how to read and write in cyrillic, we think the language will be saved. We cannot wait politicians (Vinozhito) to bring the language in the public schools as it is almost 20 years that we hear them talking but they have done nothing about it. We took initiative and hope we will make people (especially the younger) to want to learn the language, which is not the case now. The excuse that we do not have money, again is only an excuse: we do not have much, but was enough to start.
And we do not have a regular school: we use the small apartment we rent as office for the Educative and Cultural Movement of Voden. We have no books, we use photocopies. But we learn something.

[Bratot]

Vodenka with all due respect but you are missing my question and my point.

If you want to do it your way and to teach Macedonian lang. as some illegal activity for the rest of your life, that's fine with me and you owed my admiration. Most probably your dedication will be noted in our history.

[vodenka]

Vodenka with all due respect but you are missing my question and my point.

If you want to do it your way and to teach Macedonian lang. as some illegal activity for the rest of your life, that's fine with me and you owed my admiration. Most probably your dedication will be noted in our history.

It is not illegal because it is not a private school. It is in the frame of educative and cultural activities of our association. We cannot do more than that, right now, but, who knows, in the future we could found a legal private school! We need to educate and have teachers, first! We have lot of work in front of us but we had to start from somewhere. Hopefully we will not have to do everything ourselves. More people can get in this project because Egejska is big and we are few. We need people to follow us, to succed. When you have people with you, you can do big things.

[Bratot]

I give up.

Anyone else?

[Phoenix]

My apologies to 'Bratot' and others, I don't mean to divert your discussion with 'Vodenka' but I'd like to ask her a question out of curiosity while she's here actively participating in this thread.

Vodenka, what do you think are the approximate numbers of Macedonian professionals in greece today, do we have a significant number of teachers (i don't mean those teaching Macedonian, rather those in the greek education system), whether they be at primary, secondary or tertiary level, do we have professionals in the medical field for example or in civil service at the various levels of government or successful business operators?

I guess I want to develop a picture of how entrenched the Macedonians have become in modern greece.
From reading much of your posts I get the impression that we're only just starting to find our feet in modern greece but somehow that notion doesn't make any sense at all to me...?

[Phoenix]

It's quite clear...the UMD leadership just don't get it...

What is particularly disturbing is the pathetic excuses that they creatively cobble together as their 'defence'...

[Risto the Great]

No problem Phoenix. Forums work in this way normally. Personally, I am more interested in the impact of the economic uncertainty for Greece and the attitude of Macedonians who have embraced the Greek myths. I wonder if they are an increasingly viable target due to the economy.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Even if some time I may disagree on some statements, it does not make me be negative on their work on the whole. I keep what is good.

The statements and actions of the UMD that we disagree with here are fundamental, they relate to our identity as Macedonians and that is why this issue is at the forefront.

I do not get in particularities on ideological matters or how they are working on the ground as I have no possibility to have a complete image of the situation in Australia, Canada, etc.

Indeed, so please use a little more rationale before jumping into a discussion you don't fully understand.