United Macedonia Diaspora

[Vangelovski]

Yes the Greek Veto was illegal in terms of the Interim Accord that is currently a "valid UN agreement" between Greece and Macedonia. Why hasn't the Macedonian Government withdrawn from it yet? Well as long as the Government of Macedonia recognizes and abides by the Accord, we have to explore all avenues available to advance in our quest for sovereignty.

Vangelovski, you do an awful lot of bitching and complaining, but what have you done to help the situation? You were a board member and you quit, what better way to influence UMD policy then by being an active member. It seems like you just play the stubborn child that cry's and stomps his feet because he wants to be the team leader when everyone else knows that you don't deserve it.

Buktop, my response to this is here:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...?t=2423&page=5

You seem to be avoiding the thread now.

[Bill77]

do you spend your time all day on this forum trying to argue with people like me or are you doing anything to help macedonia?

Now hang on TK, you can't critisize SOM for not doing anything for Macedonia or its people. Some one that gives so much of his time as he does on this thread, surley is good for our people. He has given me plenty of knowledge which is more than anyone or any site has done conbined. And you know how important and dangerous for the oposition Knowledge is.

[TajnataKniga]

important work?

SoM,

Notice when Camp Meto has been shown for what they are, they question what you are doing for Macedonia. I think the most appropriate response would be that we are doing some of the most important work of all - and that's putting out the idea that we (Macedonians) can be a sovereign nation and we do not need to be subservient vassels.

i think your work is BS not important. important would be getting off the forum and doing something. arguing with me is not important sorry to say. and im enjoying this. loving it!

and i dont belong to any camp. i belong to camp tajnatakniga, all by myself. :-)

[TajnataKniga]

ok

Now hang on TK, you can't critisize SOM for not doing anything for Macedonia or its people. Some one that gives so much of his time as he does on this thread, surley is good for our people. He has given me plenty of knowledge which is more than anyone or any site has done conbined. And you know how important and dangerous for the oposition Knowledge is.

Bill, exactly my point! you cant critisize UMD, meto and others for not doing anything for macedonia or its people. everyone is doing something. why cant everyone get along?

i have seen soliders postings and he has produced great stuff. but what i notice with him and some others here is they assume things and misinterpret. assuming makes an 'ass' out of u and me.

[Vangelovski]

TK,

What are you smoking? I'm sure we could all do with some after reading your posts.

[Buktop]

Buktop, did you give up on this thread?

Instead of answering 3 little questions, you go on a rant about constitutional mandates.

I will ask you again

In a republican government who votes for Parliamentarians? Why do they vote for Parliamentarians? What is the Parliament for?

Let me add one more question now, Where in the constitution does it state that the elected representatives of the people do not have the power to act on behalf of the people as mandated in the constitution?

A delegation of powers is not a transfer or assignment, and may be reclaimed at any time that the citizens, in their judgement, find that their agents are not acting in accordance with their wishes.

Why haven't they?

Nowhere in the Macedonian Constitution do I see the Macedonian Government been delegated the authority to negotiate changes to the constitution with a third party, in this case a foreign government. Such authority cannot be assumed and must be expressly provided by the people, which it has not.

Where in the constitution does it expressly limit such authority? It has not, therefor by your own argument, the constitution is poorly written and provides that authority, such is the reality of the predicament.

[Vangelovski]

Buktop, I think our conversation ends here. Unless you read my post carefully and understand it - particularly in relation how the constitution relates to the Parliament and Executive Government - both are covered by the constitution. This will stop you from asking questions I've already answered.

Why haven't they reclaimed the 'powers'? Probably because they listen to the likes of people like you.

[Rogi]

TajnataKniga,

Every single Macedonian organization in Australia opposes, without question, the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement.

List 1 that supports these Agreements, in any direct or indirect manner, and I will show you proof beyond all doubt that they do not.

In fact, if you find me one such Macedonian organisation in Australia, I will call them immediately and seek an official clarification.


NB: This also includes the Australian arm of UMD who also oppose (and always have, without wavering in the slightest) the accord and agreement, without reserve.

[Soldier of Macedon]

SoM,

Notice when Camp Meto has been shown for what they are, they question what you are doing for Macedonia. I think the most appropriate response would be that we are doing some of the most important work of all - and that's putting out the idea that we (Macedonians) can be a sovereign nation and we do not need to be subservient vassels.

Indeed. I think we are also doing a service to Macedonia and the Macedonian people by clarifying the true intent of any organisation that claims to represent the Macedonian Diaspora. Yet here we are, being attacked for trying to make people accountable for their own words, god forbid.

in your opinion, ive done the wrong thing, in my opinion ive done nothing wrong. who is right? two stubborn people, what can we do about it?

Is that what you think this is, some sort of game between two stubborn people? You have indicated that you are happy with 'democratic', you gave a 'yahoo' for your new identity - This is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact. Go and celebrate your new identity with people who think the same as you, all 3 of them.

and i dont belong to any camp. i belong to camp tajnatakniga, all by myself

Yeah, looks like they forgot to wake you up when everybody else was leaving the camp, but at least you woke up with a new identity. Yahoo!?


Bill77, thanks mate, but don't worry about this fellow too much, like some others, he has jumped the gun and made some statements, or was probably high on something when they were made, and rather than accepting his errors, he has chosen to play games.

[Soldier of Macedon]

but what i notice with him and some others here is they assume things and misinterpret. assuming makes an 'ass' out of u and me.

What have I misinterpreted? What have I assumed? Don't replicate observations about yourself onto me, I know exactly what I have heard and read.

[Buktop]

Buktop, I think our conversation ends here. Unless you read my post carefully and understand it - particularly in relation how the constitution relates to the Parliament and Executive Government - both are covered by the constitution. This will stop you from asking questions I've already answered.

Why haven't they reclaimed the 'powers'? Probably because they listen to the likes of people like you.

You call a rant about constitutional mandate an answer? You haven't even quoted the relevant constitutional articles.

You are a master of evasion, I have to hand it to you. I don't understand Vangelovski, why is it so hard for someone like you to answer 3 simple questions?



In a republican government who votes for Parliamentarians? Why do they vote for Parliamentarians? What is the Parliament for?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Buktop, do you think the presidency of the UMD should be subject to vote or not?

[TajnataKniga]

research

To prove your point. Is that too much to ask, or is the habit of making hit n' run statements the new trend for some of you apologists?

ok doing research, just for you..

here is one:

http://www.mhrmi.org/news/2007/november09_e.asp

'A call for the partition of at least two other Balkan states (the Republic of Macedonia and Bulgaria) by a leader of the Greek Orthodox Church is simply unacceptable and, moreover, is inconsistent with the Greece’s confirmation of the “common existing frontier as an enduring and inviolable international border” under the terms of the 1995 Interim Accord between Greece and the Republic of Macedonia.'

under Vangelovski's logic MHRMI is also in support of the interim accord, as they are legitimising it in this statement.

here is another:

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/266/45/

oh no, again referral to the interim accord.

AMHRC and MHRMI wrote to professor miller and referring to the interim accord, they are legitimising it and de factor support it

here http://macedonianhr.org.au/reslib/do...1622656750.pdf - page 24

omg now this is blasphemy, this is outrageous!!!! the worst one yet, actually this one is no where near what UMD, MHRMI, or AMHRC state...

and this is on the vinozito website

http://www.florina.org/news/1997/1997_popova_shapka.asp

'the association demands The UN, the Council of Europe and the OSCE to request from the Republic of Greece to respect and implement completely the signed Interim Accord between the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Greece, as well as all conventions on human rights and freedom.'

[TajnataKniga]

TajnataKniga,

Every single Macedonian organization in Australia opposes, without question, the Interim Accord and the Framework Agreement.

List 1 that supports these Agreements, in any direct or indirect manner, and I will show you proof beyond all doubt that they do not.

In fact, if you find me one such Macedonian organisation in Australia, I will call them immediately and seek an official clarification.


NB: This also includes the Australian arm of UMD who also oppose (and always have, without wavering in the slightest) the accord and agreement, without reserve.

rogi, amhrc in the letter to professor miller, call them up and tell me what they say. their partners mhrmi in a statement with umd before nato.

[Bill77]

Oh boy I mean I like reading conspiracy theories and about secret societies like Skull and Bones and the Bilderberg Group but this attack is just getting out of hand. Pelister with all this energy on attacking UMD you could have used it to attack our real enemies South of Macedonia. And the ghost of x-mas past Vangelovski pops in to add his 2 pence and now UMD are tools of Western powers? What a waste of a topic and I feel sorry for those of you who are sucked in on this sham.

Yep....This is all so sad.