Macedonia & Greece: Name Issue

[Makedonska_Kafana]

UMD propose this.

why, would you a non member worry about an organization which represents only 1,000 people? I, also have massive mailing lists but never use that to say I speak on behalf of any of them.

were, you a canadian boy scout?

[Zarni]

Sorry MK, I dont have a flipping clue what your posts are on about most time

[Soldier of Macedon]

Interesting info SoM The explanation for Åbo/Turku is very interesting. I have actually wondered from time to time where the finns got their name for that town.

I actually thought it may have something to do with their Ural-Altaic roots, as some authors did speak of these type of peoples north of the Danube as 'Turks', such as Constantine Porphyrogenitus. But it does appear to be a Slavic word afterall.

UMD propose this.

With regard to your recent comment suggesting that the UMD have proposed that our neighbours return all parts of Macedonia to the Macedonian republic - would you mind citing a source?

Zarni the 100 years on the bucharest agreement is up in 1913.

George, I believe this was already clarified on other threads. That agreement has been superseded by others that came afterwards. There is no 100 year limit, and there is no such agreement effectively in place. Macedonians should stop waiting for their destiny, and start making it themselves.

[Onur]

The surname 'Turk' is also used by Anglo-Saxon peoples.

Thanks for the links and info. I knew that the surname Turk and it`s derivatives are quite common among eastern European Jews due to Khazar Turkic connection but i didn't know that it also exists among Slovenians and Anglo-Saxons.

I actually thought it may have something to do with their Ural-Altaic roots, as some authors did speak of these type of peoples north of the Danube as 'Turks', such as Constantine Porphyrogenitus.

Me too, i was thinking like it`s probably related with our connection with Finns during early middle-ages.

The type of people who has been referred as Turks by eastern Romans was mostly the Hungarians. Before they have been converted as christians, Hungarians were calling themselves as Turks. Also, the Hungarian territory at that time was known as Tourkia by eastern and western Romans for about two centuries. It`s also known that the Szekely Hungarians was speaking Turkic at first. They became known as Magyars and/or Hungarians after they became christians.

There is a holy crown given to the Hungarian king by eastern Roman emperor in 11th century. The emperor has been given that to him because he spread christianity among Hungarians. On the crown, there is an inscription written in Byzantine Greek, as "To the Geza I, faithful king of Tourkia". That crown is a national symbol of Hungary nowadays. Here is more info;

The Crown, Sword, Sceptre and Globus cruciger of Hungary, in the Hungarian Parliament Building

To the right there is a picture of the Hungarian King Géza I (1074–1077), with the Greek inscription: "ΓΕΩΒΙΤZΑC ΠΙΣΤΟC ΚΡΑΛΗC ΤΟΥΡΚΙΑC" (Geōvitzas pistós králēs Tourkías, meaning "Géza I, faithful kralj of the land of the Turks"). The contemporary Byzantine name for the Hungarians was "Turks", while the Hungarian branch of the Greek Orthodox Church, under Constantinople's jurisdiction, was named the "Metropolitanate of Tourkia" (Hungary), and the head of this church was the "Metropolitan of Tourkia" (Hungary).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Crown_of_Hungary

[Risto the Great]

US insists Macedonia change its name to Macedonia (Skopje)

http://www.eurasiareview.com/us-urges-macedonia-to-solve-name-dispute-09062011/

Just days after the general elections in Macedonia, the US reminds the government in Skopje that it has unfinished business regarding the name dispute with Greece.

By Sinisa Jakov Marusic

A quick solution to the name dispute, boosting reforms needed for EU membership as well as further implementation of the 2001 Ohrid Peace Accord should be top priorities of the new government, said Thomas Countryman, the US Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Eurasia at a press briefing in Washington on Tuesday.

“In terms of next priorities, we absolutely believe that this would be the right time, as soon as the new government is formed, to bring to closure the discussions with Greece over the name of Macedonia,” Countryman said.

“We look forward to that being concluded so that Macedonia can continue on the path to NATO and the European Union,” he added.

“We believe this is within reach and can be done,” Countryman said. The VMRO DPMNE party of Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski, which is currently in power, won the elections on Sunday, and are expected to form another government in the coming weeks.

Greece and Macedonia have been locked in a dispute over the name Macedonia for two decades.

Athens refuses to let Skopje join NATO and EU before solving this issue. It insists that Skopje’s use of this name implies territorial claims against Greece’s own northern province, which is also called Macedonia.

In what may be seen as a positive sign, the Macedonian government announced on Tuesday that the Greek PM George Papandreou called his Macedonian counterpart Gruevski to congratulate him on his election victory.

In 2010, Gruevski and Papandreou held a series of meetings aimed at unfreezing the cold bilateral relations and hopefully reaching a solution to the long standing dispute. However, the meetings were assessed only as a courtesy gatherings without significant substance.

Former Macedonian chief of diplomacy, Slobodan Casule says that a name solution is possible in the coming period, but argues that the US would have to step up pressure on both sides if that is to happen.

The US is now “only insisting on what was previously already agreed and that is the name Republic of Macedonia with the adjective Skopje in brackets,” Casule explained, adding that Skopje in 2008 hinted some form of this name might be acceptable.

Casule told Balkan Insight the moment is good for a compromise, “especially now when the Macedonian government has a fresh mandate and stable majority” and “when Greece is knocking at the doors of international monetary organisations asking for financial help to curb its internal crisis”.

Casule also sees as encouraging the fact that Gruevski’s current junior government partner, Ali Ahmeti of the ethnic Albanian Democratic Union for Integration, who is expected to rejoin Gruevski in the new government, promised his supporters during the election campaign that a name solution is just around the corner.

Various opinion polls done in the past year have showed that the country’s Albanians, who make up one quarter of the population, are generally more supportive of agreeing to a name compromise if this means resumption of EU and NATO accession bids.

Ethnic Macedonians, on the other hand, are more resistant to and emotional about a possible name change.

Are we there yet?
UMD, can you please clean up the smell coming from your backyard?
Though I am sure we should rely on Macedonians who actually care about the name.

To the naysayers, please let me know if you feel this negotiated name will be for some kind of bi-lateral orgy with Greece or will it be more like a gang-bang for Macedonia.

[Vangelovski]

And what a smell it is. I don't think any serious activist that is politically savvy ever believed that the US recognised Macedonia's name. If they had, in the real meaning of the word, they would not be constantly telling Macedonia to change it. But they are not at fault - it is the Macedonians themselves who keep saying they want to change it and I suppose the Americans are sick of listening to them and that is why they keep telling us to do it already.

[Mactruth]

This is a dangerous situation for Macedonia and ALL Macedonians (SDSM and VMRO) must recognize that Greeks will take advantage of the name and use its loophole to call us "Skopje" and "Skopjans", a name that they LOVE and want to continue

"Republic of Macedonia (Capital: Skopje)" is the only way that Macedonians will not slaughter all those that chose a name change because "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)" will be converted to "Republic of Macedonia (Also Known As Skopje)" by the Greeks. BE AWARE

[Risto the Great]

Mactruth, Are you proposing ROMCS instead of FYROM?
Call me old fashioned, I prefer Macedonia.

[julie]

http://www.eurasiareview.com/us-urge...pute-09062011/



Are we there yet?
UMD, can you please clean up the smell coming from your backyard?
Though I am sure we should rely on Macedonians who actually care about the name.

To the naysayers, please let me know if you feel this negotiated name will be for some kind of bi-lateral orgy with Greece or will it be more like a gang-bang for Macedonia.

Because they fully support name change UMD wont answer. This is disgusting

Thomas Countryman insisting name Republic of Macedonia with the adjective Skopje in brackets,
Fuck you UMD, and currency trader, you bunch of traitors to the Macedonian cause. Diaspora Macedonians wake up

[Mactruth]

The only comments I referred to were those related to "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)" and in no way stated anything about changing the name, I simply pointed out something I feel the Greeks hope the Macedonians don't recognize.

United Macedonian Diaspora and all other organizations need to sent repeatable messages to the UN and Macedonian government on:
1) How Macedonia was forced into signing the Agreement with Greece (blockades in Yugoslavia and Greece)
2) How Macedonia's army is much smaller then Greece's
3) Macedonians disprove of a name change
4) Why does Macedonia need to change? Why doesn't Greece change the name of its region of Macedonia (Aegean Macedonia)?
5) How Greece is breaking international law of sovereignty
6) How Greece was in talks with Milosevic to divide Macedonia
7) How Greek priest continue to state the need to divide Macedonia

There's more, add it to the list

[Soldier of Macedon]

United Macedonian Diaspora.........need to sent repeatable messages to the UN and Macedonian government on:
1) How Macedonia was forced into signing the Agreement with Greece (blockades in Yugoslavia and Greece)

They have. Look what they wrote a couple of years ago:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3485

...It was Greece, not Macedonia, that rejected the most recent proposal to resolve the "name dispute". Moreover, Greece's veto violated the 1995 Interim Accord that it signed with Macedonia, which binds Greece's right to veto Macedonia's NATO bid or any other international organization that Macedonia would like to join as long as it joins under the U.N. provisional reference term used to identify Macedonia.....(A name to reckon with, Washington Times)

Do you see what is happening here? They are blaming Greece for rejecting "Republic of Macedonia (Skopje)". Furthermore, they are blaming Greece for violating the agreement you referred to, the same agreement that obligates Macedonia to be called 'fyrom'. One would think a true Macedonian would be happy to see the end of that treacherous agreement, don't you think?

[Mactruth]

If UMD won't do it then the other Macedonian organizations must, and must repeat the statements and messages again and again because lets face it EU and other organizations want to ignore the Macedonians' suffering, they want to forget what they did to us and turn a blind eye... we cannot let that happen

[Vangelovski]

If UMD won't do it then the other Macedonian organizations must, and must repeat the statements and messages again and again because lets face it EU and other organizations want to ignore the Macedonians' suffering, they want to forget what they did to us and turn a blind eye... we cannot let that happen

You're going around the same old circles and de-focusing the debate. Macedonia needs to end the negotiations, declare the Interim Accord null and void and get on with more pressing issues such as political, legal and economic reforms (including replacing the Framework Agreement).

[Makedonska_Kafana]

As, an NGO (?) the UMD must insult and attack the USA government over these types of violations even if more invited guest speakers pass away in the process.

- "UMD, strongly opposes any name change" is a piss poor (weak) response and unacceptable. Demand, that Phil Reeker be fired today!

[julie]

Sure they will MK, wondering whether this Thomas tool will get the next hero award from UMD, they are hell-bent on rewarding anyone that is a threat to our sovereignty