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Carlin15 09-13-2018 11:14 PM

- Vlach villages of Karpenissi, lingustically Hellenized (abandoned Vlach)
- Vlach villages of Agrafa, linguistically Hellenized (abandoned Vlach)
- Vlach villages of Gkiona, Lidoriki, Karoutes, Sykia, etc. linguistically Hellenized (abandoned Vlach) starting from the 18th century

[img]https://i.imgur.com/DNxNB5i.jpg[/img]

- Vlach villages of Mount Oeta, Ypati areas linguistically Hellenized (abandoned Vlach) starting from the 18th century
- Vlach villages of Artotina, Mousounitsa, Kostarsa, Paliokatouna, etc. linguistically Hellenized (abandoned Vlach)

[img]https://i.imgur.com/CMlgdIV.jpg[/img]

From the book [I]oi ellinovlachoi (armanoi)[/I] by giorgis exarchos - pages 157 and 158.

Carlin15 09-22-2018 09:02 PM

[B]Histoire de la Grèce moderne, 1828-2012: mythes et réalités - Pages 14 and 15, by Nicolas Bloudanis.[/B]

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=9ZhJAQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Histoire+de+la+Gr%C3%A8ce+moderne,+1828-2012:+mythes+et+r%C3%A9alit%C3%A9s&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK0KSvhdDdAhUk64MKHQ_qALkQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Histoire%20de%20la%20Gr%C3%A8ce%20moderne%2C%201828-2012%3A%20mythes%20et%20r%C3%A9alit%C3%A9s&f=false[/url]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/AljVm6u.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/5taZvq7.jpg[/img]

[B]Pg. 14 top:[/B]

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]The populations of the Greek space thus keep their own traditions, [COLOR="red"][B]a mixture of Christianized Hellenism and cultures and languages specific to [/B][B][U]each ethnic group[/U][/B], mainly [U]Albanian, Vlach and Latin (Italian)[/U][/COLOR]. The whole Christian population, including the Balkan Slavs, is the "Rum millet", the "Roman Nation", in fact "Greek".[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[B]Pg. 14 bottom/Pg. 15 top:[/B]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="4"]The immense majority of the population remains practically illiterate, as indeed in many countries of Europe until the 18th century. The population retains only a vague memory of its past, through folk tales and songs, most of which relate to the Byzantine period, but some also to antiquity, and which are transmitted from generation to generation.

[COLOR="Red"][B]As for the Greek language, it is [U]conserved essentially in the Church[/U]: the popular language is a set of dialects: Vlach, Arvanite or Levantine, according to the regions, in which Greek words are mixed with Romanian, Albanian or Italian[/COLOR].[/B]

At the beginning of the 19th century, there emerges a Greece very different from the image that the West has received since the Renaissance, that of classical Antiquity. The Greeks of 1821 are the result of an important [I]brewing[/I] of populations and a path that is Christian, Byzantine, then Ottoman. They are a long way from Homer, Pericles or Aristotle, even if they feel a nebulous memory and a mythical attachment for this past.[/SIZE][/COLOR]

Liberator of Makedonija 09-22-2018 10:56 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;176530][B]Histoire de la Grèce moderne, 1828-2012: mythes et réalités - Pages 14 and 15, by Nicolas Bloudanis.[/B]

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=9ZhJAQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Histoire+de+la+Gr%C3%A8ce+moderne,+1828-2012:+mythes+et+r%C3%A9alit%C3%A9s&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjK0KSvhdDdAhUk64MKHQ_qALkQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Histoire%20de%20la%20Gr%C3%A8ce%20moderne%2C%201828-2012%3A%20mythes%20et%20r%C3%A9alit%C3%A9s&f=false[/url]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/AljVm6u.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/5taZvq7.jpg[/img]

[B]Pg. 14 top:[/B]

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="Blue"]The populations of the Greek space thus keep their own traditions, [COLOR="red"][B]a mixture of Christianized Hellenism and cultures and languages specific to [/B][B][U]each ethnic group[/U][/B], mainly [U]Albanian, Vlach and Latin (Italian)[/U][/COLOR]. The whole Christian population, including the Balkan Slavs, is the "Rum millet", the "Roman Nation", in fact "Greek".[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[B]Pg. 14 bottom/Pg. 15 top:[/B]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="4"]The immense majority of the population remains practically illiterate, as indeed in many countries of Europe until the 18th century. The population retains only a vague memory of its past, through folk tales and songs, most of which relate to the Byzantine period, but some also to antiquity, and which are transmitted from generation to generation.

[COLOR="Red"][B]As for the Greek language, it is [U]conserved essentially in the Church[/U]: the popular language is a set of dialects: Vlach, Arvanite or Levantine, according to the regions, in which Greek words are mixed with Romanian, Albanian or Italian[/COLOR].[/B]

At the beginning of the 19th century, there emerges a Greece very different from the image that the West has received since the Renaissance, that of classical Antiquity. The Greeks of 1821 are the result of an important [I]brewing[/I] of populations and a path that is Christian, Byzantine, then Ottoman. They are a long way from Homer, Pericles or Aristotle, even if they feel a nebulous memory and a mythical attachment for this past.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/QUOTE]

This is really interesting. What is Levantine? Never heard of it.

Carlin15 09-22-2018 11:08 PM

[QUOTE=Liberator of Makedonija;176534]This is really interesting. What is Levantine? Never heard of it.[/QUOTE]

I may be mistaken, but I think that [B]Levantine[/B] is a term applied to the Catholic populations of various medieval states. These included the Crusader states, the Latin Empire, the possessions of Venice, the late Byzantium, and later the Ottoman Empire. Nowadays the term is sometimes used to refer to their descendants residing in Turkey and the Middle East.

"Levantines were mostly of Italian (especially Venetian and Genoese), French, or other Euro-Mediterranean origin."

URL:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Church_in_the_Middle_East[/url]

In the French version of the same wikipedia page, I found this:

Nowadays in Turkey, the term "Levantine" refers only to Turkish nationals of Western origin. Their surnames were adapted during the writing reforms (1928). In Istanbul there are still large Levantine families, generally French-speaking: Alyont (Alléon), Baltacı (Baltazzi), Bastiyon (Bastion), Boduyi (Baudouy), Dandriya (D'Andria), Döhoşpiye (De Hochepied), Glavani (Glavany), Jiro (Giraud), Kaporal (Caporal), Kasanova (Casanova), Kastelli (Castelli), Korpi (Corpi), Krepen (Crespin), Kuto (Coûteaux), Lombardi, Marmara, Tomaselli... ... etc.

Liberator of Makedonija 09-23-2018 03:28 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;176535]I may be mistaken, but I think that [B]Levantine[/B] is a term applied to the Catholic populations of various medieval states. These included the Crusader states, the Latin Empire, the possessions of Venice, the late Byzantium, and later the Ottoman Empire. Nowadays the term is sometimes used to refer to their descendants residing in Turkey and the Middle East.

"Levantines were mostly of Italian (especially Venetian and Genoese), French, or other Euro-Mediterranean origin."

URL:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Church_in_the_Middle_East[/url]

In the French version of the same wikipedia page, I found this:

Nowadays in Turkey, the term "Levantine" refers only to Turkish nationals of Western origin. Their surnames were adapted during the writing reforms (1928). In Istanbul there are still large Levantine families, generally French-speaking: Alyont (Alléon), Baltacı (Baltazzi), Bastiyon (Bastion), Boduyi (Baudouy), Dandriya (D'Andria), Döhoşpiye (De Hochepied), Glavani (Glavany), Jiro (Giraud), Kaporal (Caporal), Kasanova (Casanova), Kastelli (Castelli), Korpi (Corpi), Krepen (Crespin), Kuto (Coûteaux), Lombardi, Marmara, Tomaselli... ... etc.[/QUOTE]

Here it is referred to as a language though? It can't be Vlach as it is distinguished from that already

Carlin15 09-23-2018 10:04 AM

[QUOTE=Liberator of Makedonija;176536]Here it is referred to as a language though? It can't be Vlach as it is distinguished from that already[/QUOTE]

Levantine = Italian (Venetian and Genoese), French languages/dialects, etc.

tchaiku 09-23-2018 03:42 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin;167638]Google Translation -

[I][SIZE="3"]Transportation Vlachs in Asia Minor[/SIZE][/I]

[I]Manolis Kontosteliou

One of the [B][U]largest[/U] population movements[/B] happened in Greece was the [B][U]mass migration[/U] of Epirus Vlach settlements[/B] which began the 17th, continued in the 18th century and peaked in the 19th century. Migratory waves initially focused mainly on the Danube and then the Ottoman hinterland.

The main reasons that prompted the residents of Epirus in search of a better life were:

a) The revolutionary movements of 1600 and 1611 with the participation of Christians in Epirus and Thessaly in response to the call of Bishop Dionysios the Philosopher

b) The gradual limitation of the number of villages falling under privileged membership status

c) The [B][U]overpopulation[/U] of mountain communities[/B] and

d) unknown factors like frequent epidemics and natural disasters.

... seek to examine the largely unknown relocation Vlachs in Asia Minor, ..... references and researchers on the topic.[/I][/QUOTE]

I just read about the resettlement of Christians from Epirus in Bithynia in 17th century. Not sure if they were Vlachs ...

Carlin15 09-23-2018 04:40 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;176548]I just read about the resettlement of Christians from Epirus in Bithynia in 17th century. Not sure if they were Vlachs ...[/QUOTE]

Where did you read it?

tchaiku 09-23-2018 05:07 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;176549]Where did you read it?[/QUOTE]

We know that there was movement of Greek populations within the Ottoman Empire; we know for example that Bithynia was resettled from Epirus in the 17th century, and we know that the Tsakonian colony near Erdek/Artaki cannot have been indigenous, and likely dates from the 18th century.
[url]http://hellenisteukontos.opoudjis.net/2017-04-20-why-did-you-think-the-greek-population-disappeared-so-completely-from-anatolia-after-the-ottoman-conquest/[/url]

It is legit, however it is hard to find any additional information in Google.

Carlin15 09-23-2018 05:18 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;176552]We know that there was movement of Greek populations within the Ottoman Empire; we know for example that Bithynia was resettled from Epirus in the 17th century, and we know that the Tsakonian colony near Erdek/Artaki cannot have been indigenous, and likely dates from the 18th century.
[url]http://hellenisteukontos.opoudjis.net/2017-04-20-why-did-you-think-the-greek-population-disappeared-so-completely-from-anatolia-after-the-ottoman-conquest/[/url]

It is legit, however it is hard to find any additional information in Google.[/QUOTE]

No prob, I was just looking for a link (or anything). There were always population movements.

Now that you mention Erdek - what I found interesting with my ancestrydna timeline is that I have 'dots' in this area and Marmara Ereglisi (they appear here for the first time in the 19th century):
[img]https://i.imgur.com/K3VH8G1.jpg[/img]


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