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-   -   The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17)

Carlin 06-24-2017 05:01 PM

[B][U]The [I]Greek[/I] community of Venice[/U][/B] [Greek community = Greek [U]Orthodox[/U] community]

The main Arvanite migration to Italy was not in the lower (southern) Italy, but in the north of Italy, especially in Venice. This migration began in 1482, when the Venetians agreed with the Turks to move much of the Orthodox Arvanites who lived in the Venetian territories to other Venetian areas. In 1482 there were thousands and thousands of Arvanites in the Venetian territories, and the Venetians moved at least 5,000 just to Venice, where the Arvanites were "exploited" for their military capability, some as warriors on horseback (stradioti). A smaller portion of Arvanites the Venetians moved to Cyprus, which they later defended against the Turks around 1570. Also, as we already saw in my post above, the Venetians moved Arvanites to Crete, where they remained until 1669, when Crete finally fell to the Turks. Smaller portions were colonized on the Ionian Islands and mainly Zakynthos, Kefalonia and Corfu. Later a part of them settled in Andros in the Aegean.

[B]In Venice, the [I]Greek-Orthodox[/I] Arvanites were the founders of the Greek community of Venice.[/B] The members of this community, until the fall of Cyprus in 1571, was [B]almost exclusively Arvanites[/B]. I suspect this was first changed with the arrival of Cypriot refugees in 1571 and later even more with the arrival of Cretan refugees in 1669. Even with these changes, the [B]Greek community of Venice remained majority Arvanite[/B]. The Greek community of Venice was also a kind of "national center" of all Arvanites and often incited riots of Orthodox Arvanites who lived in the Turkish-occupied territories. And as expected, because this community was established in Venice, it depended on the Venetian interests and support.

Carlin 06-24-2017 08:59 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;169736][IMG]http://www.freeinquiry.gr/upload/files/06.10/arvphotos/arv494.jpg[/IMG]

According to the above register, the Greeks of the region were less than Albanians: 1,742 Greek families and 1,836 Albanians are counted. More information can be found in the book by Vasilis Panagiotopoulos: "Population and settlements of the Peloponnese, 13th-18th century" (Historical Archive, Emporiki Bank of Greece, Athens, 1987), from which the above aggregate tables .
(Amphipolis can you help us what is this picture representing, which region etc?)

Αναλυτικά στοιχεία για όλα τα χωριά τής ΒΔ Πελοποννήσου μπορείτε να δείτε στο Παράρτημα “Α” (κάντε κλίκ εδώ). Στη στήλη (γ) σημειώνονται με το γράμμα Ε τα ελληνικά και με το γράμμα Α τα αλβανικά χωριά. (Για την περιοχή τής Αχαΐας για παράδειγμα, το ποσοστό των οικισμών με αρβανίτικο όνομα είναι 74,5%).

Detailed information about all the villages of ND Peloponnese can be found in Annex "A" (click here). Column (c) is marked with the letter E in Greek and the letter A with the Albanian villages. (For example, the percentage of settlements with an Arvanite name is 74.5% for the Achaia region).


E = Greek
A = Albanian


[IMG]http://www.freeinquiry.gr/upload/files/06.10/Venet/1b.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.freeinquiry.gr/upload/files/06.10/Venet/2b.jpg[/IMG]
What about this? Which region (Achaea?) or what is it talking about families, villages etc?

[url]http://www.freeinquiry.gr/pro.php?id=372[/url][/QUOTE]
The following [I]Hellenic[/I] toponyms/village names are [I]very interesting[/I] (and non-Greek): Arvanokastro, Politsa, Franka Villa, Garditsko, Mokiste, Vesini, Porta, Sandameri.

I wonder what languages / dialects were spoken in these ORTHODOX villages?

VMRO 06-25-2017 12:21 AM

Great find Carlin, love your work!

Amphipolis 06-25-2017 12:59 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin;169751]The following [I]Hellenic[/I] toponyms/village names are [I]very interesting[/I] (and non-Greek): Arvanokastro, Politsa, Franka Villa, Garditsko, Mokiste, Vesini, Porta, Sandameri.

I wonder what languages / dialects were spoken in these ORTHODOX villages?[/QUOTE]

The languages are presented next to the name of the neighborhood, E for Greek, A for Albanian, M is for (uninhabited) fields. The population is presented in column (η) in houses/families, not people.

Note, these are NOT villages or settlements, but smaller sites & groups of people working in lands of the Ottoman feudal system. The only clear villages are the ones noted with a Z (Ziamet) instead of T (Timar) (e.g. Chalandritsa, Sandameri, Kardasi? etc.) that's why the population is higher there.

This is from a tax document covering a rural location S-SW of Patra in NW Peloponnese.




===

tchaiku 06-25-2017 01:09 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;169755]The languages are presented next to the name of the neighborhood, E for Greek, A for Albanian, M is for (uninhabited) fields. The population is presented in column (η) in houses/families, not people.

Note, these are NOT villages or settlements, but smaller sites & groups of people working in lands of the Ottoman feudal system. The only clear villages are the ones noted with a Z (Ziamet) instead of T (Timar) (e.g. Chalandritsa, Sandameri etc.) that's why the population is higher there.

This is from a tax document covering a rural location S-SW of Patra in NW Peloponnese.




===[/QUOTE]


The population presented is based on modern inhabitants.

Amphipolis 06-25-2017 01:12 AM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;169756]The population presented is based on modern inhabitants.[/QUOTE]

No, the populations are from 1461/1463, most of these sites are unknown and do not exist anymore.

tchaiku 06-25-2017 01:47 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;169757]No, the populations are from 1461/1463, most of these sites are unknown and do not exist anymore.[/QUOTE]

What does (0) column stand for?

tchaiku 06-25-2017 06:04 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;169755]The languages are presented next to the name of the neighborhood, E for Greek, A for Albanian, M is for (uninhabited) fields. The population is presented in column (η) in houses/families, not people.

Note, these are NOT villages or settlements, but smaller sites & groups of people working in lands of the Ottoman feudal system. The only clear villages are the ones noted with a Z (Ziamet) instead of T (Timar) (e.g. Chalandritsa, Sandameri, Kardasi? etc.) that's why the population is higher there.

This is from a tax document covering a rural location S-SW of Patra in NW Peloponnese.




===[/QUOTE]

Is this related to the sites of Ottomans or just settlements?

[QUOTE]According to the above register, the Greeks of the region were less than Albanians: 1,742 Greek families and 1,836 Albanians are counted. More information can be found in the book by Vasilis Panagiotopoulos: "Population and settlements of the Peloponnese, 13th-18th century" (Historical Archive, Emporiki Bank of Greece, Athens, 1987), from which the above aggregate tables .
[/QUOTE]

Amphipolis 06-25-2017 08:54 AM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;169758]What does (0) column stand for?[/QUOTE]

If you mean (θ), the last two columns are concentrated amounts of money.

[QUOTE=tchaiku;169759]Is this related to the sites of Ottomans or just settlements?[/QUOTE]

I don't understand the question.

tchaiku 06-25-2017 09:15 AM

Thank you. And nevermind my question. You are not in the place to know the answer I should recheck the page. But if you are curious what I meant was is that census (based on families ex 1762 Greek families) related to the Ottoman sites like those that we just discussed above.


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