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-   Exposing Lies and Propaganda (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=6)
-   -   The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17)

Soldier of Macedon 09-11-2008 06:47 AM

This particular part of the forum is for Exposing Lies and Propaganda, so don't be suprised in you see quite a few topics about Greeks.

sydney 09-11-2008 06:50 AM

and a greek i know is from kefalonia, he speaks greek, he says "i'm greek", people call him greek. so what's my point? deeper in conversation he'll tell you his ancestors are italian. and even deeper he'll tell you he doesn't really feel that greek, he feels different because the way he was treated inside greece.

so, you're right, things aren't what they seem, or as you say, black and white. but if they were, we would be the white ones (and that's obvious).

and what makes us macedonian? answer: that's all we know ... you should ask my great-great-great-great grandfathers for your answer.

Giorikas 09-11-2008 06:56 AM

[QUOTE=sydney;1869]and a greek i know is from kefalonia, he speaks greek, he says "i'm greek", people call him greek. so what's my point? deeper in conversation he'll tell you his ancestors are italian. and even deeper he'll tell you he doesn't really feel that greek, he feels different because the way he was treated inside greece.

so, you're right, things aren't what they seem, or as you say, black and white. but if they were, we would be the white ones (and that's obvious).

and what makes us macedonian? answer: that's all we know ... you should ask my great-great-great-great grandfathers for your answer.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, so that makes the Grekoman who speaks only Greek and knows no better then he is also per definition Greek. That is his reference, and myself I would not find that incorrect. Like your reference is that you are Macedonian.

sydney 09-11-2008 06:58 AM

spot on. i only pity the grkomani, i do not seek to claim them, they are greek in the modern sense of the word.

Giorikas 09-11-2008 08:17 AM

[QUOTE=sydney;1875]spot on. i only pity the grkomani, i do not seek to claim them, they are greek in the modern sense of the word.[/QUOTE]

We made progress today my friend :)

El Bre 09-11-2008 09:44 AM

[QUOTE=Giorikas;1873]Thanks, so that makes the Grekoman who speaks only Greek and knows no better then he is also per definition Greek. That is his reference, and myself I would not find that incorrect. Like your reference is that you are Macedonian.[/QUOTE]

It all depends on your definition of a Gerkoman. I don't know who it is you are referencing, but the Gerkomani I know were neighbours and at times even relatives. Their metamorphisis was witnessed first hand and they definately didn't speak only Greek.

Risto the Great 09-14-2008 06:43 AM

[QUOTE=sydney;1875]spot on. i only pity the grkomani, i do not seek to claim them, they are greek in the modern sense of the word.[/QUOTE]
They live there ... in a country that does not let them be anything else.
How long will you maintain the rage?
I know one Macedonian who can barely live in that country. He is virtually the equivalent of the Muslims wearing hijabs and completely unable to speak English in Australia. Very much marginalised and a social outcast after the 80 year strategy in Northern Greece. He is what we Macedonians respect and admire. He is 50 years old and unmarried due to his no-compromise brand of being Macedonian in a country that remains backwards in human rights.

Is this what we want for our Macedonian brothers & sisters in Greece?

We want them to rise up for their human rights. We are talking about people oppressed for 600 years. They are so whipped they even believe the new brand of Greekness is a superior culture. How utterly pathetic. Is this rational thought? Clearly not, but we are talking about Greece!

Yet these people hate mixed marriages in Greece. They are still annoyed at the preferential treatment of the transplanted Christians from Turkey and make fun of the Macedonians who pretend to not remember how their ancestors were not the ideal Greeks they have become now.

I do not call these people Grkomani. They are modern Greeks in an ethnically diverse environment that denies diverse ethnicities. But modern Greeks like the Macedonians of Greece used to be very different people 50 years ago. Many like me are testament to that.

toothpaste 09-14-2008 08:37 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;2170]They live there ... in a country that does not let them be anything else.
How long will you maintain the rage?
I know one Macedonian who can barely live in that country. He is virtually the equivalent of the Muslims wearing hijabs and completely unable to speak English in Australia. Very much marginalised and a social outcast after the 80 year strategy in Northern Greece. He is what we Macedonians respect and admire. He is 50 years old and unmarried due to his no-compromise brand of being Macedonian in a country that remains backwards in human rights.

Is this what we want for our Macedonian brothers & sisters in Greece?

We want them to rise up for their human rights. We are talking about people oppressed for 600 years. They are so whipped they even believe the new brand of Greekness is a superior culture. How utterly pathetic. Is this rational thought? Clearly not, but we are talking about Greece!

Yet these people hate mixed marriages in Greece. They are still annoyed at the preferential treatment of the transplanted Christians from Turkey and make fun of the Macedonians who pretend to not remember how their ancestors were not the ideal Greeks they have become now.

I do not call these people Grkomani. They are modern Greeks in an ethnically diverse environment that denies diverse ethnicities. But modern Greeks like the Macedonians of Greece used to be very different people 50 years ago. Many like me are testament to that.[/QUOTE]

Most of the people you call Grecomans ,have lost grandfathers who fought and were killed for the Greek cause against the Bulgarians.

They were the most enthusiastic makedonomachi.I guess they ll turn in their graves ..if their grandchildren (who have Greek as mother language) refuse they are Greek.

El Bre 09-14-2008 12:02 PM

[QUOTE=toothpaste;2174]Most of the people you call Grecomans ,have lost grandfathers who fought and were killed for the Greek cause against the Bulgarians.

They were the most enthusiastic makedonomachi.I guess they ll turn in their graves ..if their grandchildren (who have Greek as mother language) refuse they are Greek.[/QUOTE]

Oh how romantic. Go stick your face back into a book and leave the history to those who acutally lived it.

People ratting out their friends and neighbours being turned into a noble endeavour. Now I've heard it all.

toothpaste 09-14-2008 02:44 PM

[QUOTE=El Bre;2182]1.Oh how romantic. Go stick your face back into a book and leave the history to those who acutally lived it.

2.People ratting out their friends and neighbours being turned into a noble endeavour. Now I've heard it all.[/QUOTE]


1.You re too dazed of your nationalism ,so u see everything blurred.There was a nasty war these times..and victims suffered both sides.
If you believe your ancestors were pure as white pigeons..go on ,but you ll sound somehow between romantic and silly.

As for "those actually lived history" ,my great grandfather was assassinated by locals of the Exarchy (my grandfather called them "Bulgarians") in the beginning of the 20th cent.
My family also suffered during the occupation of Eastern Macedonia by the Bulgarians in WWI (1916) and WWII (1943)...counting 2 more victims.

You know...there are not any pure and innocent nations.

2.Some of these people you re talking about(slavophone Greeks or Grecomans or whatever) ,were tortured and preferred to die instead of denying what they wanted to self-determinate themselves-Greeks.

Does the right of [B]self-determination[/B] exist only for you ?


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