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-   -   The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17)

Amphipolis 05-16-2020 09:08 AM

Pandora is available here but I couldn't find in the contents any helpful title that looks relevant.

[URL="http://pleias.lis.upatras.gr/index.php/pandora/issue/archive?issuesPage=6#issues"]http://pleias.lis.upatras.gr/index.php/pandora/issue/archive?issuesPage=6#issues[/URL]

Carlin 06-28-2020 05:09 PM

[B][U]Bulletin de l'Institut historique belge de Rome, Parts 39-40[/U][/B] ([I]Bulletin of the Belgian Historical Institute in Rome[/I])
Institut historique belge de Rome, [B][U]1968[/U][/B] - Archives

[img]https://i.imgur.com/vJKLTtV.png[/img]
Page 170: "... in Crete the Vlachs are quite numerous in the fourteenth century."
Page 171: "... bought from a Catalan of Barcelona Maria, a Vlach, acquired at Thebes by the Catalans."

Risto the Great 06-28-2020 05:13 PM

[QUOTE]Page 171: "... bought from a Catalan of Barcelona Maria, a Vlach, acquired at Thebes by the Catalans."[/QUOTE]Vlach Lives Matter?

Soldier of Macedon 07-19-2020 10:30 AM

The below article was written during a time when some journalists from western Europe still had enough integrity to tell the truth. Their successors today seem to have forgotten about this contemporary sentiment and are now willing to afford the modern Greeks plenty of latitude when it comes to their myths and national narrative. The modern Greeks, for their part, have been projecting their own insecurities on others since independence. And these days we have the bizarre situation where the creator and the brainchild, both devoid of integrity, have joined forces to torment the Macedonians, a people who are indigenous to Macedonia and did not need different ethno-linguistic groups from the Balkans and elsewhere to come to the country in order to create, reaffirm or bolster their nation.

[B]The Times, 3 June, 1870[/B]

[url=https://ibb.co/y06J2cQ][img]https://i.ibb.co/VVg86cq/Untitled.jpg[/img][/url]

Amphipolis 07-19-2020 10:54 AM

This article is related to the following (very interesting event), English translation from Greek Wikipedia.

[URL="https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fel.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F%25CE%25A3%25CF%2586%25CE%25B1%25CE%25B3%25CE%25AE_%25CF%2584%25CE%25BF%25CF%2585_%25CE%2594%25CE%25B7%25CE%25BB%25CE%25B5%25CF%2583%25CE%25B9%25CE%25BF%25CF%258D"]https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fel.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F%25CE%25A3%25CF%2586%25CE%25B1%25CE%25B3%25CE%25AE_%25CF%2584%25CE%25BF%25CF%2585_%25CE%2594%25CE%25B7%25CE%25BB%25CE%25B5%25CF%2583%25CE%25B9%25CE%25BF%25CF%258D[/URL]

It also inspired the film Megalexandros (1980)

Soldier of Macedon 07-19-2020 11:11 AM

From your link:
[QUOTE]The MP from Milisi, who announced the history of the case in Parliament, claimed that all but two of the robbers were foreigners, ie "Albanians and Vlachs living in Turkey". It is believed that this statement was made because there was a European outcry against Greece for the event. The commentator of the announcement mentions that the Arvanitakis were Greeks from Agrafa, a family from which he had come and a leader of chariots. Takis Arvanitakis had excelled fighting against the Turks inrevolution of Agrafa in 1866. Also that the words "Vlachs", "Arvanites" and "Arvanitovlachoi" had an indefinite meaning and were used by the people in the sense of nomadic cattle breeders.[/QUOTE]
With a surname like Arvanitakis it is more than likely that the two brothers were Albanians. In some instances, the term Vlach may have been used in a generic manner for a shepherd or the like, but are there any sources from that period that suggest Arvanites and Arvanitovlachs have been used in the same manner?

Amphipolis 07-19-2020 11:56 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;183498]From your link:

With a surname like Arvanitakis it is more than likely that the two brothers were Albanians. In some instances, the term Vlach may have been used in a generic manner for a shepherd or the like, but are there any sources from that period that suggest Arvanites and Arvanitovlachs have been used in the same manner?[/QUOTE]

Which manner is that? Arvanites, Vlachs and all other foreigners always had these two sides, a Greek one and a non-Greek one, so anyone would use the side that suited him at the occasion. I don't know if brigandry was predominately Albanian, it was actually a very complicated issue that was fully solved much later (in 1900s or 1910s)

Carlin 07-19-2020 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;183500]Which manner is that? Arvanites, Vlachs and all other foreigners always had these two sides, a Greek one and a non-Greek one, so anyone would use the side that suited him at the occasion. I don't know if brigandry was predominately Albanian, it was actually a very complicated issue that was fully solved much later (in 1900s or 1910s)[/QUOTE]

Do tell us, if you know. I believe the specific question was:
Are there any sources from that period that suggest "Arvanites" and "Arvanitovlachs" have been used in the same or similar [I]generic manner[/I] that the term "Vlach/Vlachs" may have been used?

Apparently, the term "Vlach" had multiple meanings (i.e. mountaineer, shepherd, villager, uncouth person), therefore, did the term "Arvanite" have similar meanings?

Carlin 07-19-2020 12:48 PM

I was recently watching documentary videos on youtube about the breakup of Yugoslavia and read about the Glogova massacre which took place in Bosnia and Herzegovina, in May 1992.

Having come across the toponym "Glogova" it seemed like I came across this name before. I realized that there is a village "Drakovouni" in Arcadia, Peloponnese. The original/authentic name of "Drakovouni" was Glogova, until 1927 that is. Interestingly, I came across a few toponyms in Arcadia/Peloponnese that have their parallels in Bosnia and Herzegovina. We used to have a Kamenitsa in Arcadia but also Kamenica in Bosnia. We have Vytina in Arcadia but also Vitina in Bosnia, etc.

Questions for analysis:
- When were the Arcadian villages of Glogova, Kamenitsa and Vytina established?
- What is the likelihood that these villages were founded by medieval (monolingual) Greek-speakers?
- If they were not founded by Greek-speakers, which seems to be the case here, when did these villages fully self-Hellenize and what "foreign" language was spoken there earlier?

Amphipolis 07-19-2020 02:09 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;183497]It also inspired the film Megalexandros (1980)[/QUOTE]

By the way, I realized Megalexandros is available on youtube, with English subtitles (you can activate them). This is the best Greek film on Alexander the Great, though you may find it has... little to do with him, and more with the folk view on him or the Dilesi incident mentioned above.

This is a masterpiece, for hardcore cinephiles only, and probably the best Greek film of the 1980s, largely unknown to Greeks today, including Macedonian landscapes and great Macedonian folk-like music written by Chalaris who is a great composer and also a musicologist expert in Byzantine music. Maybe, Carlin is interested because of the content.

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCqV0cIRDF8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCqV0cIRDF8[/URL]


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