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-   -   The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17)

Amphipolis 05-15-2017 11:27 AM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;168855][I][B]''And yet some travellers declare that the bulk of population of the population of Modern Greece belong to the ancient stock! On contrary I should consider 200,000, or one-fifth of entire number, a very high estimate.''
[/B][/I]
Travels in Greece and Russia
By Bayard Taylor[/QUOTE]

This seems like a deep statistical analysis. Here's a more extended passage:

"The plain of Messenia, over which we rode, after leaving Kalamata, is the richest part of the Morea. Although its groves of orange and olive, fig and mulberry, were entirely destroyed during the Egyptian occupation, new and more vigorous shoots have sprung up from the old stumps, and the desolated country is a garden again, apparently as fair and fruitful as when it excited the covetousness of the Spartan thieves. Sloping to the Gulf on the south, and protected from the winds on all other sides by lofty mountains, it enjoys an almost Egyptian warmth of climate. Here it was already summer, while at Sparta, on the other side of Taygetus, spring had but just arrived, and the central plain of Arcadia was still bleak and gray as in winter.

As it was market day, we met hundreds of the country people going to Kalamata with laden asses. Nine-tenths of them, at least, had Turkish faces. The Greek type suddenly ceases on leaving Maina, and I did not find it again, except in a few scattering instances, daring the remainder of our travels in the Peloponnesus. And yet some travellers declare that the bulk of the population of Modern Greece belong to the ancient stock! On the contrary, I should consider 200,000, or one-fifth of the entire number, a very high estimate."

Here's a picture of the author:
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Bayard_Taylor.jpg[/IMG]

tchaiku 05-15-2017 01:13 PM

Both Bayard Taylor and Philip Fallmeyar make racist and ignorant comments focussing on the physical appearance.

tchaiku 05-19-2017 07:39 AM

,...........................

tchaiku 05-20-2017 01:39 PM

[quote=carlin;133050]some additional points.

- anonymi descriptio europae orientalis. Imperium constantinopolitanum, albania, serbia, bulgaria, ruthenia, ungaria, polonia, bohemia. Anno mcccviii exarata. Cracoviae, 1916: As per the anonymous traveler of eastern europe from the [b]xiv century[/b], it is stated that vlachs (whom the author calls "blasi"), are a numerous people living between macedonia, [b][u]achaia [/u][/b]and salonika.

- johann thunmann, untersuchungen uber die geschichte der ostlichen europaischen volker, i. Leipzig, [b]1774[/b]: The author states (estimates) that vlachs represent half the population of thrace, and three quarters of inhabitants of thessaly and macedonia combined.

- in early march 1821, alexander ypsilanti called vlachs/romanians dacians!

[url]http://www.freeinquiry.gr/pro.php?id=2213&phpsessid=ae517603cb7dd0fff1340ad4e35a8835[/url][/quote]

:14: :14: :14:

Carlin 05-21-2017 10:38 AM

Η Τριπολιτσά ήταν η μεγαλύτερη πόλη τής νότιας Ελλάδας. Με πληθυσμό περίπου 35.000 τούρκους, αλβανούς και εβραίους ήταν η έδρα τής τουρκικής ηγεσίας, η οποία φιλοξενούσε πολλούς εξέχοντες οθωμανούς αξιωματούχους.

Tripolitsa was the largest city in southern Greece. With a population of about 35,000 [B]Turks[/B], [B][U]Albanians[/U][/B] and [B]Jews[/B], it was the seat of the Turkish leadership, which housed many prominent Ottoman officials.

Taken from, URL:
[url]http://www.freeinquiry.gr/pro.php?id=3040#[/url]

Tripoli, Greece

Tripoli (Greek: Τρίπολη, Trípoli, formerly Τρίπολις, Trípolis; [B]earlier Τριπολιτσά Tripolitsa[/B]) is a city in the central part of the Peloponnese, in Greece. It is the capital of the Peloponnese region as well as of the regional unit of Arcadia.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripoli,_Greece[/url]

tchaiku 05-22-2017 09:48 AM

The Synekdemos of Hierokles is the only text that reports that they left their city under pressure of the Slavic invasions and settled in Sicily. Nicephoros I rebuilt the polis of Lacedaemon and had a "[B][U]mixed population" settle there.[/U][/B] The early history of the bishopric of Lacedaemon is puzzling. The first known bishop, Hosios, is attested in 458; then, in 681, when the city was supposedly abandoned, when a bishop of the polis seems to be mentioned. In the notitiae the bishopric of "Lakedeon" in the Peloponnese appears around 800, and the later Synodikon of Lacedaemon begins probably around 843.
The vita of the 10th century saint Nikon the Metanleite, who lived in Lacedaemon, provides rich information about the city and its environs, including the existence of a Jewish community and pagan Slavs; it is, however, not certain whether the evidence of the vita can be taken at face value. At any rate, the identification of a church excavated in Sparta with one built by Nikon is probably incorrect.

Carlin 05-22-2017 05:58 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;169027]The Synekdemos of Hierokles is the only text that reports that they left their city under pressure of the Slavic invasions and settled in Sicily. Nicephoros I rebuilt the polis of Lacedaemon and had a "[B][U]mixed population" settle there.[/U][/B] The early history of the bishopric of Lacedaemon is puzzling. The first known bishop, Hosios, is attested in 458; then, in 681, when the city was supposedly abandoned, when a bishop of the polis seems to be mentioned. In the notitiae the bishopric of "Lakedeon" in the Peloponnese appears around 800, and the later Synodikon of Lacedaemon begins probably around 843.
The vita of the 10th century saint Nikon the Metanleite, who lived in Lacedaemon, provides rich information about the city and its environs, including the existence of a Jewish community and pagan Slavs; it is, however, not certain whether the evidence of the vita can be taken at face value. At any rate, the identification of a church excavated in Sparta with one built by Nikon is probably incorrect.[/QUOTE]

The [I]mixed population[/I] that Nicephorus I settled in (rebuilt) Lacedaemon were: 'Kapheroi, Thrakesians, Armenians and others from different places and cities'.

[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1980&page=2[/url]

Carlin 05-22-2017 06:00 PM

“The Greek geographer and historian Strabo (63 BCE-21 CE) described Greece as “a land entirely deserted; the depopulation begun since long continues. Roman soldiers camp in abandoned houses; Athens is populated by statues”.

Plutarch observed that “one would no longer find in Greece 3,000 hoplites [infantrymen].”

The historian Polybius (204-122 BCE) wrote: “One remarks nowadays all over Greece such a diminution in natality and in general manner such a depopulation that the towns are deserted and the fields lie fallow. Although this country has not been ravaged by wars or epidemics, the cause of the harm is evident: by avarice or cowardice the people, if they marry, will not bring up the children they ought to have. At most they bring up one or two. It is in this way that the scourge before it is noticed is rapidly developed. The remedy is in ourselves; we have but to change our morals.”

“Now moderation, adequacy, excess in nothing, and complete self-sufficiency are above all else the essential characteristics of everything done by the gods; and if anyone should take this fact as a starting-point, and assert that Greece has far more than its share in the general depopulation which the earlier discords and wars have wrought throughout practically the whole inhabited earth, and that to‑day the whole of Greece would hardly muster three thousand men-at‑arms, which is the number that the one city of the Megarians sent forth to Plataeae (for the god’s abandoning of many oracles is nothing other than his way of substantiating the desolation of Greece), in this way such a man would give some accurate evidence of his keenness in reasoning.”

URL:
[url]https://bornposthumously.wordpress.com/[/url]

tchaiku 05-24-2017 02:05 PM

" . . . Τότε δή καί οἱ Λάκωνες τό πατρῷον ἔδαφος καταλιπόντες ἐν τῆ νήσῳ Σικελία ἐξέπλευσαν, οἵ καί εἰς ἔτι εἰσίν ἐν αύτῆ ἐν τόπω καλουμένω Δέμενα καί Δεμενῖται ἀντί Λακεδαιμονιτῶν κατονομαζόμενοι καί τήν ἰδίαν τῶν Λακώνων διάλεκτον διασώζοντες. Οἱ δέ δύσβατον τόπον παρά τόν τῆς θαλάσσης αἰγιαλόν εὑρόντες καί πόλιν ὀχυράν οἰκοδομήσαντες καί Μονεμβασίαν ταύτην ὀνομάσαντες διά τό μίαν ἔχειν τῶν ἐν αὐτῇ εἰσπορευομένων τήν εἴσοδον ἐν αὐτῇ τῇ πόλει κατῴκησαν μετά τοῦ ἰδίου αὐτῶν ἐπισκόπου. Οἱ δέ τῶν θρεμμάτων νομεῖς καί ἀγροικικοί κατωκίσθησαν ἐν τοῖς παρακειμένοις ἐκεῖσε τραχινοῖς τόποις, οἵ καί ἐπ᾿ ἐσχάτων Τζακωνίαι ἐπωνομάσθησαν . . . '', " Περί τῆς κτίσεως τῆς Μονεμβασίας Χρονικόν '' (Κώδιξ μονῆς Ἰβήρων). ". . . οἵ καί ἐπ᾿ ἐσχάτων Τζακωνίαι ἐπωνομάσθησαν διά τό καί αὐτούς τούς Λάκωνας Τζάκωνας μετονομασθῆναι . . . '', " Περί τῆς κτίσεως τῆς Μονεμβασίας Χρονικόν '' (Κώδιξ Κουτλουμουσίου)


'....Then Lakonians left their father's lands and to Sicily island sailed, and still there in place called Demena exist and Demenitai instead οf Lacedaemonians named and the Laconian dialect preserves. And the rough place despite the sea side found and city fortress built and Monemvasian named it for the one-being entrance of those inserting entry in that city, inhabitant with itself their bishop. And the shepherds and farmers people inhabit to the near by, rough places, which later Tzakoniai renamed.....'' Chronicle_of_Monemvasia (codix Iberon) , ''... which later Tzakoniai renamed, and for that (reason) the Lacones as Tzacones renamed.....''

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicle_of_Monemvasia[/url]

====

Tzakones were special guard of castles, in the latin translation of Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus, " De Cerimoniis '' Ι 695 - 696 , Bonn edition, " . . . e quibus etiam Tzecones [seu Peloponnesiaci] desumuntur et seliguntur in castella . . . '', gives the descent from Peloponnese, of Tzacones castle guards, and Roman/Byzantine historian Pachymeres in 13th/14th century describe more specific the identification of Lacones- Tzacones , ". . . ἄλλοι τε πλεῖστοι ἐκ τῶν Λακώνων, οὕς καί Τζάκωνας παραφθείροντες ἔλεγον. . . '', Ι . 309, 5 ". . . from the most of Lacones, that also named Tzacones who by corruption so called. . . '', Ι . 309, 5, ''... . . Soldiers inhabit the city [Constantinople 1261] and under necessity had, where and Lakones most from Morea[=Peloponnese] and the western parts[probably from Despotate of Epirus, serving as soldiers] arrived, allocate places on the city dwelling provided as indigenous and to most other works where need used them inside [the city] and outside, as valuable experience to wars having. . . ''Pachymeres , Ι, 188


". . . ἄλλοι τε πλεῖστοι ἐκ τῶν Λακώνων, οὕς καί Τζάκωνας παραφθείροντες ἔλεγον. . . '' , Ι . 309, 5 , Γεώργιος Παχυμέρης, ἔκδοση Βόννης , καί ". . . Λάκωνες ἄρτι προσελθόντες τῶ βασιλεῖ, οὕς ἡ κοινή παραφθείρασα γλῶσσα Τζάκωνας μετονόμασεν . . . '', Ι , 98, Νικηφόρος Γρηγορᾶς, Ρωμαϊκή Ἱστορία, ἔκδοση Βόννης , ". . . τῶν στρατιωτῶν οἰκίζειν τήν πόλιν[κωνσταντινουπολη 1261] καί λίαν ἐπ᾿ ἀνάγκης εἶχεν , ὅπου γε καί Λάκωσι πλείστοις ὕστερον ἐκ τοῦ Μορέου ἀφιγμένοις ἐπιμερίσας τόπους ἐπί τῆς πόλεως παρεῖχε κατοικεῖν ὡς αὐτόχθοσι καί πλεῖστοις ἄλλοις φιλοτιμήμασιν ἐπί πολλοῖς καί ἐντός καί ἐκτός ἔχρητο , ὡς ἀξίαν τριβήν ἐν πολέμοις ἔχουσι . . . '', Ι, 188, Γεώργιος Παχυμέρης, ἔκδοση Βόννη.

Carlin 05-27-2017 09:23 AM

[I]A Journey of the Vocal Iso(n)[/I], By Eno Koço

[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=d5_zBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA69&lpg=PA69&dq=Aromanian+Photius&source=bl&ots=gWJp_g1nPO&sig=vOD3bIXVwVuAIHJbrAQKDYsUqiQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH5dy6opDUAhXJ7IMKHRx2BgQQ6AEIJDAA#v=onepage&q&f=false[/url]

Page 67:

[B][SIZE="2"][COLOR="Blue"]However, it should be stressed that the earliest known examples of written Aromanian were [U]manuscripts of the Patriarch Photius dating from around 860-870 AD[/U], and [U]manuscripts written by St. Naum of Ohrid[/U] at about the same time.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]


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