Monuments and Statues in the Macedonian Republic

[Big Bad Sven]

Would you agree that it is a slang term, a play on the word Shqiptar, and that it is generally (not exclusively, but in most cases) used as an insult when said by Macedonians and others?

Ok, so the word shiptar isnt racist its the tone and "meaning" behind it.

What happens if we reffer to these people as Albanians, but when we say albanian we make it sound really dirty and offensive. Will these people feel real hurt inside and force us not to use the word "albanian" along with the other "racist" word "shiptar"?

[Big Bad Sven]

As for the person going on about Crna Gora and Bosnia not counting, what is wrong with you?! Crna Gora and Bosnia had the same status as Macedonia, Croatia, Serbia and Slovenia. The fact that many people see themselves as Serbs in Crna Gora does not lessen its status within Yugoslavia. Big Bad Sven, what you have said about the former Yugoslavia is very ignorant, especially about cultural diversity and what Bosniaks are or aren't, however I am not going to bicker with you over the where Tito's coffin did go and didn't go.

I dont care about Montenigrins to tell you the truth. As i said earlier EVERY Montenigrin i met says they are serbs. If they now think they are different then thats simply fantastic and i support them 100%
But the thing is in Yugoslavia their language was not recognized and where seen as serbs and serb speakers. So i would imagine the Yugoslavs would have considered Belgrade as "their capital city".

I respect and support bosniaks 100% but the thing is that in Yugoslavia there language was not recognized and spoke "serbo-croation" im assuming were counted as "Muslims" instead of Bosniaks. Its not my fault that Tito did not put the bosniak/montenigrin race, language and people on the same level as the Serbs,croats, slovenes and macedonians.

Can you see why the Yugoslavs may have snubbed Bosnia and Crna Gora?

[Bratot]

Thanks for the clips, particularly the last one, which was very interesting. It certainly proves that the term was used in the past without being offensive.

But it is now Bratot, although I agree that their reasons for being offended when they weren't in the past are misguided.

Very quickly the term "Albanian" will replace the "Shiptar" in it's derogatory meaning.

This proces already started.

It's not in the (any)name problem but in the general perception of their nation and cultural/historical habits.

[Mastika]

I dont care about Montenigrins to tell you the truth. As i said earlier EVERY Montenigrin i met says they are serbs. If they now think they are different then thats simply fantastic and i support them 100%
But the thing is in Yugoslavia their language was not recognized and where seen as serbs and serb speakers. So i would imagine the Yugoslavs would have considered Belgrade as "their capital city".

I respect and support bosniaks 100% but the thing is that in Yugoslavia there language was not recognized and spoke "serbo-croation" im assuming were counted as "Muslims" instead of Bosniaks. Its not my fault that Tito did not put the bosniak/montenigrin race, language and people on the same level as the Serbs,croats, slovenes and macedonians.

Can you see why the Yugoslavs may have snubbed Bosnia and Crna Gora?

I am glad to see what you have written about the Bosniak peoples BBS. However these people were recognised as being ethnically "Muslim" (Muslims by nationality) so I guess that their ethnic status is equivalent to that of the Croatians and Serbians. Based on this argument I can see why the funeral procession skipped Titograd, but not Sarajevo.

However based on another argument (time constrains/integrity of Tito's body) I can see why the funeral procession skipped Skopje, Podgorica and Sarajevo. But the procession should have gone to the largest 3 cities (Belgrade/Zagreb/Skopje) or to all of the capitals of the constituent republics. I guess in the end it fell to decision of the funeral director, after all Tito didn't control what was happening.

[Onur]

I am glad to see what you have written about the Bosniak peoples BBS. However these people were recognised as being ethnically "Muslim" so I guess that their ethnic status is equivalent to that of the Croatians and Serbians.

You know, the word Muslim has no relation with ethnicity but Christian people deliberately identified everyone with Islamic belief in Balkans as "Muslims" to deny their real identity. Most obviously being Muslim, christian or Buddhist doesn't make us less Bosnian, Macedonian, Turk etc. but another reason for this might be; these Muslim people doesn't feel unusual to intermarry with people from another ethnicity because dividing people according to their ethnicity is some kind of sin in Islam belief.



In regard to their ethnicity, AFAIK Bosnian people are genetically most proximate with Slovenians and Croatians.

[julie]

Onur,I agree with your post. And this is especially so for my circumstance
I asked for my christening certificate for my first marriage , he was Catholic and there was no way I could marry anywhere but in his church, I had a Macedonian Orthodox priest perform full rites so I did not feel chated.
I did not speak to my parents for a week when I found out they had me christened in a Serbian Orthodox church. It was not until 1969 Adelaide was to have a Macedonian priest and they could not leave me not baptised.

As a grown woman, I have found comfort in the readings from Buddhism, not as a religion per se but as a lifestyle, and it has given me great comfort especially lately.

I am Macedonian, I am Macedonian Orthodox and my 3 sons were christened in the Macedonian church.

I agree with you that someones religious denomination does not denote ethnicity.
I would gladly sacrifice my life to see the unification of my beloved Macedonian people and land, am a Macedonian patriot

[EgejskaMakedonia]

This is off-topic but anyone know the lyrics to the song bill posted? Can't find them anywhere.
Thanks.

[julie]

Prolet, you know we just jest

[Mastika]

You know, the word Muslim has no relation with ethnicity but Christian people deliberately identified everyone with Islamic belief in Balkans as "Muslims" to deny their real identity. Most obviously being Muslim, christian or Buddhist doesn't make us less Bosnian, Macedonian, Turk etc. but another reason for this might be; these Muslim people doesn't feel unusual to intermarry with people from another ethnicity because dividing people according to their ethnicity is some kind of sin in Islam belief.

In regard to their ethnicity, AFAIK Bosnian people are genetically most proximate with Slovenians and Croatians.

Onur, Yes I agree with what you were saying, however the Bosniaks and all Muslims in general who spoke a Slavic language (Serbian, Macedonian, Bosnian) living in the former Yugoslavia were officially designated as "Muslims by nationality" before Yugoslavia adopted the term "Bosniaks" to describe them. In this case "Muslims by nationality" was an official term to describe the ethnicity of these people.

[Mikail]

Sorry peoples, but do you think you could make a thread titled, Yugoslavia, and keep all comments about, Yugoslavia, there. Your getting a little here.

[julie]

My bad Mikail, sorry brat

[Mikail]

Now problems Julie. There are afew topics where the conversation of the thread is being changed rather keeping with the title of the subject matter. Our friends above are employing this and I ask they start a thread to discuss the particular topic they want to share with us.

[Risto the Great]

Forums by definition will guarantee that topics will stray.
Its all good fun unless someone is steering a topic away with less than good intent.

[Mikail]

Yeah I know. It seems a couple of threads have been deliberately diverted from the topic at hand.

[aleksandrov]

...

Aleksandrov, Lazar Kolishevski's parents are Bulgarian, why would he say that the anthem is too Bulgarian? ...

I don't know what his parents were, but he grew up as an orphan and was educated and politically trained by Serbian institutions. His persecution of Macedonian patriots who wanted a united Macedonia on the grounds that they were allegedly "pro-Bulgarian" or enemies of Yugoslavia is well documented.