Kosovo: News, Politics & Issues

[Makedonetz]

TLWR

Did your friends cousin ever hear of why he was moved from his post? probaly not being confidential but did they hear what might of been the situation>?

[The LION will ROAR]

TLWR

Did your friends cousin ever hear of why he was moved from his post? probaly not being confidential but did they hear what might of been the situation>?

Makedonetz, No Questions were asked from what I know...And I don't know more about it..I'll speak to him again and see if I can got more out of him..
But getting them re-posted at another location clearly gives it away about certain Macedonians that are in position dealing in corruption..

[Makedonetz]

zvuči dobro, blagodarenie

[Frank]

Kosovo: a template for disaster

The idea that Kosovo is a model for humanitarian intervention in Libya is based on a series of myths

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/21/kosovo-template-for-disaster-libya

Warning the term (sic) Kosovans is used and allot of actually outright lies but it is what it is

[Risto the Great]

As they weigh up whether to support the attack on Muammar Gaddafi's regime, some western commentators are taking comfort from the 1999 Nato air war against Serbia, which is widely viewed as a successful humanitarian mission that protected Kosovans from Serbian aggression. Moreover it was done at low cost to the intervening powers, who suffered no combat casualties. And ultimately it led to the ousting of Serbia's villainous leader, Slobodan Milosevic. The Libya intervention, it is hoped, will have a similarly positive outcome.

In reality, Kosovo presents little basis for optimism with regard to Libya. Its success is based on a series of myths.

The first is that in Kosovo, war constituted a morally simple conflict, between aggressive Serbs and victimised Kosovan Albanians; and that Nato, in backing the Albanians, was furthering the cause of human rights. In fact, none of the parties were particularly moral. The war crimes of Serbian forces are well known, but their Kosovan adversaries committed crimes too. In early 1999, Tony Blair believed that the Kosovo Liberation Army was "not much better than the Serbs", according to Alastair Campbell's memoirs. And the UK defence minister George Robertson stated that until shortly before the Nato bombing campaign, "the KLA were responsible for more deaths in Kosovo than the Yugoslav [Serb] authorities had been."

Despite this record, Nato selected the KLA as its ground force, while its planes bombed the Serbs. And after Milosevic capitulated and the bombing ended, Nato forces in effect put the KLA in charge of Kosovo. Once in power, it promptly terrorised ethnic Serbs, Roma and other ethnic groups, forcing out almost a quarter million people.

The record of Nato complicity in KLA war crimes is very relevant for the intervention in Libya. Once again western states will be seeking local allies, in Benghazi and elsewhere, among the Libyan opposition to Gaddafi. We must hope that they are more careful in choosing them. However, the Kosovo case gives us little assurance. The states leading the Libya intervention clearly do not have a positive record in their past selection of allies in the Middle East. Indeed, such unsavoury figures as Hosni Mubarak, Zine Ben Ali or Gaddafi himself had close ties to the states now claiming the moral high ground in their interventionist actions.

Another myth regarding Kosovo is that bombing improved the human rights situation. In reality, it made things worse, and augmented the suffering. Prior to the Nato campaign, the total number of people killed on all sides in the Kosovo conflict was 2,000, approximately half of whom were killed by Serbian forces. After the bombing began, however, there was a huge spike in Serb-perpetrated atrocities, which caused almost 10,000 deaths, combined with widespread ethnic cleansing. The Serbian forces were furious that they could not stop the Nato air attacks, so they took out their frustration on the relatively defenceless Albanians, causing a huge increase in the number of killings. The Nato bombing itself directly killed at least 500 civilians. When viewed from a humanitarian standpoint, Nato intervention was a disaster.

There is a danger that the current intervention in Libya could produce similar results. In response to the bombing, Gaddafi could lash out against his own people with even more viciousness than Milosevic did in Kosovo. And Gaddafi could resort to some of his old terrorist techniques, against both American and European citizens, with ugly consequences. Humanitarian intervention could, once again, lead to disaster.

Finally, it is wrong to remember the Kosovo intervention as being inexpensive or of brief duration. True, the bombing campaign lasted only 78 days. However, this was followed by an extended occupation involving thousands of Nato peacekeeping troops. A Nato force remains in Kosovo, with little prospect of departure.

A similar situation could occur in Libya: securing regime change will probably require a foreign occupation, which could last for years, in a country with three times the population of Kosovo and a much larger territory. The Nato powers may have no choice but to field troops, and to fund their occupation activities – on top of the UK and US commitment in Iraq and Afghanistan, and during a global economic crisis.

[Onur]

There was a commonly agreed principle between all the countries in the world; "No country can interfere another country`s internal issues". This principle has been set by the rules of UN and all other international organization.

I said "there was" because after the intervention to Kosovo, this principle has been abandoned by great powers. Now, their new motto is "Human values are above everything, including state affairs". So, western world used and wasted all possible pretenses in their former interventions and i believe that they created a new pretense for interfering to the problems of the countries. They say that if certain minority feels like they suffer in their country and if these people calls for help then western world thinks that this is enough reason for them to start a military campaign to supposedly save them. You can guess that how easily they can manipulate certain groups in any country they want and make them call for help.

Ofc western world will choose whoever they like. For example, there are massive protestations in Bahrain for a while but shiite people(pro-Iran) are majority in there and they are being governed by the sunni minority since WW-1. This sunni ruling minority are working with wahhabis in Saudi Arabia aka most loyal dogs of great powers. Great powers didn't even wait for a day for bombing Libya but do you think they will ever try to save pro-Iran shiites in Bahrain by bombing wahabbis?? Let alone doing that, they let wahabbi army of Saudi Arabia to enter Bahrain to kill more shiite protesters with tanks and helicopters;

For the first time since the eruption of popular protests in the Middle East last December, Arab military forces are being deployed in a neighboring state, as Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates (UAE) forces entered Bahrain on Monday at the invitation of the government.

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=212270

According to informed sources in Bahrain, Saudi military forces severely attacked Salamaniya hospital. Hundreds of protesters rushed toward the hospital to protect the injured protesters and medical staff. They also attacked 3 ambulances while they were taking wounded people to Salmaniya hospital and kidnapped injured protesters who were on it.

http://abna.ir/data.asp?lang=3&id=231572

Bahrain and Saudi Massacres Not Shown by Media
The "Western" World focuses on the violent smallest demonstrations in Libya and attacks the Arab world's most popular government, whilst it calls for "restraint" by the ruthless Bahrain regime where massive peaceful demonstrations were broken up by live fire and Saudi intervention

http://mathaba.net/news/?x=626250

‘Please help us!’ – open letter from Bahrain

http://www.p2pnet.net/story/49788

A top EU diplomat says the police in Bahrain have had a "difficult task" dealing with opposition protesters and in such situations "accidents happen"!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12829401

If you wanna see what kind of "accidents" has been caused by the wahabbi army of Saudis, then you can see here. These are extremely disturbing pictures, i warn you;

http://mathaba.net/news/?x=626250

http://www.4shared.com/account/dir/ApPcImKh/sharing.html

So, i believe Libya wont be the last country for great powers intervention under this new concept/motto. This new pretense of them is very dangerous for every country in the world. Can we say that they would never claim that Albanians are suffering in Macedonia and do the same? Or Kurds suffering in Turkey and try to intervene?? Since they have their new "human rights" card to play if someone objects. So, we can sit and watch from tv, then expect that US, French bombs would supposedly save people.

[Epirot]

The first is that in Kosovo, war constituted a morally simple conflict, between aggressive Serbs and victimised Kosovan Albanians; and that Nato, in backing the Albanians, was furthering the cause of human rights. In fact, none of the parties were particularly moral.

I'd like just to correct something: the last war in Kosova (1999) isn't caused by any conflict between ethnic Albanians and local Serbs as many fraudulently claim. The constant war (since 1913) was caused because of long anti-Albanian stance of Serbian policy. When Albanians rose up into turmoils, they did this against mechanisms of Serbian state (army, policy) and not against Serb peasants.

The war crimes of Serbian forces are well known, but their Kosovan adversaries committed crimes too. In early 1999, Tony Blair believed that the Kosovo Liberation Army was "not much better than the Serbs", according to Alastair Campbell's memoirs. And the UK defence minister George Robertson stated that until shortly before the Nato bombing campaign, "the KLA were responsible for more deaths in Kosovo than the Yugoslav [Serb] authorities had been."

War is a war. There is no war without victims in both sides. But it cannot be drawn a comparison between Albanian and Serbian victims. Because Serbia massacred Albanians by following its genocidal ideologies which were born out with the rise of Serbian nationalism aiming to create a Great Serbia which would include a large portion of Balkans. Albanians never had any aggressive policy or hegemonic project against their neighbors.

Another myth regarding Kosovo is that bombing improved the human rights situation. In reality, it made things worse, and augmented the suffering. Prior to the Nato campaign, the total number of people killed on all sides in the Kosovo conflict was 2,000, approximately half of whom were killed by Serbian forces. After the bombing began, however, there was a huge spike in Serb-perpetrated atrocities, which caused almost 10,000 deaths, combined with widespread ethnic cleansing.

I have to agree with you in all points. NATO's intervention in Kosova did not bring security among population. The greatest atrocities by Serbian side occurred in that time because NATO-s air forces looked the flows of war from sky: they taste the commodities of their warfare technology but population down was left unprotected and Serbian chetniks have free hands to fulfill their cannibal projects. I firmly maintain that NATO's intervention aimed to create in Kosova an imperialist base that would serve for its future expansionist steps.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Epirot, if it wasn't for NATO interventon Kosovo would still be a part of Serbia. Again, if it wasn't for the same reason, ethnic Albanian extremists in Macedonia would not have been saved and granted a completely dispicable agreement which no other state in the Balkans would accept, let alone the rest of Europe.

Albanians never had any aggressive policy or hegemonic project against their neighbors.

Bite your tongue mate, if this is what you really believe then you have no idea about your own people. Open your eyes. What ethnic Albanian groups in Macedonia have done is a disgraceful and treacherous act, and is the main reason for poisoned relations. The status quo will not last forever; either this minority will conform to the same standards as the other minorities (like the minorities in your own nation-state of Albania) and respect the country in which they live, or there will be an inevitable clash, and this time no 'half way' settlement will conclude the matter.

I tell you this because I think as an individual you're not a bad guy, but if you harbour the same sentiments as many of your kinsmen in Macedonia, then we have a problem. Let's not kid ourselves. I would never expect the Macedonians in Albania to make such unreasonable requests. Macedonia should not be a special piece.

[Risto the Great]

Epirot, just for the sake of clarity, I merely reprinted what the link above included. They were not my personal thoughts.

[Risto the Great]

Epirot, is there any doubt whatsoever as to whether Kosovo is more of a cash-cow for the USA and its NATO allies now?

I have no major love affair for the Serbs but still struggle to understand why Serbia was attacked in such a devastating way for what was going on in Kosovo. And I find it utterly tiresome when the Albanians of Kosovo are made to look blameless.

[Epirot]

Epirot, if it wasn't for NATO interventon Kosovo would still be a part of Serbia

This is an assumption of yours, SoM. NATO's intervention doesn't bring any independence to Kosova. Guess why? Because, NATO-s generals agreed with their Serbian colleagues to the Agreement of Kumanovo (june 1999) which indicate an autonomy for Kosova within Serbia. Later on, it was introduced a new resolution "1244" (approved by U.N) which considered Kosova as integral part of Serbia. Actually in 2008, it is proclaimed a fictive independence because still European authorities have the executive powers in their hands. Independence as idea wasn't introduced by westerns. From the partition of Albanian lands (in 1913), Albanians continuously sought independence.

Again, if it wasn't for the same reason, ethnic Albanian extremists in Macedonia would not have been saved and granted a completely dispicable agreement which no other state in the Balkans would accept, let alone the rest of Europe.

What ethnic Albanian groups in Macedonia have done is a disgraceful and treacherous act, and is the main reason for poisoned relations.

Officially Albanians of Macedonia acknowledge sovereignty of Macedonia and accept Macedonia as their state. Is that a disgraceful and treacherous act? All western powers are interested in a solid and united Macedonia. So your fear that Macedonia is going to be divided is far away from reality. Albanian political representers express their willing for a co-existence with the Macedonians. I do not see any separation tendency!

[Epirot]

Epirot, is there any doubt whatsoever as to whether Kosovo is more of a cash-cow for the USA and its NATO allies now?

As an Albanian of Kosova, I assure you that USA and all their lapdog allies are behaving like true colonizers here. We have a government but its real force is nothing compare to the foreigners. All what they've done is controlling of most rich mines, strategic military points (that later can serve as a base for its further expansion toward Middle east), etc.

I have no major love affair for the Serbs but still struggle to understand why Serbia was attacked in such a devastating way for what was going on in Kosovo.

I do not think that Serbia was attacked in that devastating way. NATO bombarded just a section of Serbian army. That's why Serbian troops were free to exercise atrocities against innocent peoples. I've read a lot of general accounts (for example the book of W. Clark) and he asserts that his plan to ruin the 'head' of Serbian army stationed in Vojvodina was rejected by his Washington masters. Do not forgot either that even Kosova was attacked in such devastating manner by NATO air force. Most of industry, streets and infrastructure were utterly ruined as a result of NATO's bombs. I'm not sure if you know that NATO did use depleted uranium in Kosova? So, believe me that Kosova is devastated more than Serbia from NATO's bombing.

And I find it utterly tiresome when the Albanians of Kosovo are made to look blameless

Why do you think so?

[Soldier of Macedon]

This is an assumption of yours, SoM. NATO's intervention doesn't bring any independence to Kosova.

Epirot, NATO won the war for the Albanians against the Serbs. That is not an assumption, it's a fact.

Officially Albanians of Macedonia acknowledge sovereignty of Macedonia and accept Macedonia as their state. Is that a disgraceful and treacherous act?

You're either ill-informed about the situation in Macedonia or you simply don't have a clue. The fact that the ethnic Albanian minority in Macedonia had NATO win them 'special privileges' not afforded to any other minority in a European state is disgraceful - the fact that ethnic Albanian extremists from Macedonia and their relatives from Kosovo destabilised the country for this purpose, is a treacherous act. It is treason, plain and simple. But I blame the Macedonian leaders more for allowing the theft of our sovereignty to take place. And you might want to at least make an effort to see what Albanian 'officials' say about their own sentiments in Macedonia, rather than making presumptions on their behalf.

.........your fear that Macedonia is going to be divided is far away from reality. Albanian political representers express their willing for a co-existence with the Macedonians. I do not see any separation tendency!

You don't see it because your eyes are closed. Open them, and educate yourself on what is really going on. Albanians would never allow this to happen in Albania, Macedonians should never have been expected to allow this in Macedonia. Nothing you can say disputes that.

[Epirot]

Epirot, NATO won the war for the Albanians against the Serbs. That is not an assumption, it's a fact

It would be more accurate if you re-form your own statement as following: NATO won the war for its masters (mainly to Americans and partly to their European allies). It's a matter of fact, that they achieved all they want: put under control all Kosova and by doing that, they could create an American military base in the midst of Balkans.

You're either ill-informed about the situation in Macedonia or you simply don't have a clue.

I'm not ill-informed about the situation inside Macedonia because I firmly maintain my view that a strong Macedonia is in interest of all Albanians in Balkans. There are a plenty of important things that "compel" us to keep strong relation with one another. You don't seem to grasp my point which I emphasized in many posts. Macedonia is seen by most of your neighbors (Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs) as a land determined to be divided by them. That's why they continuously make total propaganda in order to weak Macedonia, its people, its identity, etc. Unfortunately, a number of Macedonians (including even a moderate part of them - and this disappoint me the most) do not realize at all the head of problem. You keep considering Albanians as a destructive component instead. And I believe that Albanians constitute a very strong column in the stability of Macedonia. This is the difference between my point of view and yours.

The fact that the ethnic Albanian minority in Macedonia had NATO win them 'special privileges' not afforded to any other minority in a European state is disgraceful - the fact that ethnic Albanian extremists from Macedonia and their relatives from Kosovo destabilised the country for this purpose, is a treacherous act.

Why always you do mention some clash episodes from the past? By doing so, you ignore completely the history of good relationship between Macedonians and Albanians since the end of XIX-century up to the Anti-Serbian revolts?

I would be very pleased if you tell me what do you define with the 'special privileges' given to Albanians. If you are referring to the Ohrid Agreement I do not see any 'special privilege' that is not afforded to any other minority in a European state! First of all, this agreement (which was admitted willingly by both sides) give some rights to the Albanians in proportion with their number. Those rights include making Albanian language the second official language, increasing the participation of ethnic Albanians in government institutions, police and army.

If you say that increasing of Albanian deputies in government institutions, making of Albanian as a second official language, etc are 'special privileges' that wouldn't be accepted by any European country, then you're dead wrong. Serbs in Kosovo does not constitute more than 3-4% of general population, however, Serbian is the second official language in Kosovo, their participation into government institutions is larger then their real number.

[Soldier of Macedon]

It would be more accurate if you re-form your own statement as following: NATO won the war for its masters (mainly to Americans and partly to their European allies). It's a matter of fact, that they achieved all they want: put under control all Kosova and by doing that, they could create an American military base in the midst of Balkans.

You're dancing around the inescapable fact - NATO actions beat the Serbs and laid down the foundations for an independent state of Kosovo. The importance of the questionable limit of that 'independence' (pertinent to this discussion) pales in comparison where it concerns the fact that Kosovo is in the hands of Albanians now, and not Serbs. Would you rather NATO not have come to Kosovo and have it remain under Serbian control?

I'm not ill-informed about the situation inside Macedonia because I firmly maintain my view that a strong Macedonia is in interest of all Albanians in Balkans.

Why do you believe and maintain such a view?

Macedonia is seen by most of your neighbors (Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs) as a land determined to be divided by them. That's why they continuously make total propaganda in order to weak Macedonia, its people, its identity, etc. Unfortunately, a number of Macedonians (including even a moderate part of them - and this disappoint me the most) do not realize at all the head of problem.

We intend to change that perception and raise the awareness of Macedonians. It is consistent with the aims of the Macedonian Cause.

You keep considering Albanians as a destructive component instead. And I believe that Albanians constitute a very strong column in the stability of Macedonia. This is the difference between my point of view and yours.

You're generalising, I don't do that. You're also ignorant if you actually think that there are no Albanian elements that are destructive and have shown that they have a capacity to lead moderate ethnic Albanians in Macedonia to destabilise the state. Our differing views stem from either two things, (a) you don't know, or (b) you're indoctrinated with the propaganda of Albanian extremists. Nobody reasonable can agree with the unreasonable.

Why always you do mention some clash episodes from the past? By doing so, you ignore completely the history of good relationship between Macedonians and Albanians since the end of XIX-century up to the Anti-Serbian revolts?

Don't make it sound like I am referring to something that happened 500 years ago, because ethnic Albanian extremists destabilised Macedonia only about 9-10 years ago. This 'clash' was the most recent episode, and it's unfortunate effects are still there today. This needs to be changed.

First of all, this agreement (which was admitted willingly by both sides).......

That is being naive, it wasn't admitted 'willingly' by the Macedonian side, the free passage out of Arachinovo wasn't admitted 'willingly' by the Macedonian side, they were forced into capitulation by NATO and a few of our politicians treacherously sold out the sovereignty of Macedonia.

.......give some rights to the Albanians in proportion with their number. Those rights include making Albanian language the second official language, increasing the participation of ethnic Albanians in government institutions, police and army.

Macedonia is Macedonia, so the only official language should be Macedonian. Those rights (along with the rest) are treasonous, irrespective of the proportion of Albanians which was propped up by people from Kosovo. Your size as a minority should not automatically allow you any privilege, every Macedonian citizen should have equal rights, but Macedonian culture should remain prevalent on an official level. Your people would expect no less in Albania for themselves, so don't argue a moot point. It is not a perspective that will gain you any favour here.

And let us just say, for argument's sake, that the next census reveals that ethnic Albanians are less than the 20% margin, would you still then expect special treatment, or can we scrap the Framework Agreement?

If you say that increasing of Albanian deputies in government institutions, making of Albanian as a second official language, etc are 'special privileges' that wouldn't be accepted by any European country, then you're dead wrong. Serbs in Kosovo does not constitute more than 3-4% of general population, however, Serbian is the second official language in Kosovo, their participation into government institutions is larger then their real number.

My views on the legitimacy of Kosovo's statehood is not aligned to yours. Give me examples from states in Europe like a Germany, France, Italy, Croatia, Poland, etc, because Macedonia is not Bosnia or Belgium. It started its life as a republic in 1944 as the nation-state of the Macedonian people and the home of all Macedonian citizens. Albanians have robbed the Macedonians of that sovereign statehood. This movie is far from over.