WTF?: North Macedonia to become bilingual state until 2020

[osiris]

dr av really i thought your moniker was an indication of your knowledge about these matters, mr DRVO si

[Mr. MASO]

Heres something to make U think greek boy. Census for Kosovo from the ottman empire, yet i see no Serbs or Albanians.

YouTube - The population in the Ottoman Empire

[DrVosi]

dr av really i thought your moniker was an indication of your knowledge about these matters, mr DRVO si

Hi there,

Yes im a family doctor and those are the first four letters of my last name, as you know Greek last names can be pretty long!!

I dont have the best knowledge of these matters but i do know for sure that those people in the first video didnt learn the language after they arrived, i have seen that show in its entirety.

Thanks for the nice welcome, you must be the village idiot of the message board, i will remind myself to ignore you.


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Dr AV*

[osiris]

if it makes you feel good about your obvious igornace about macedonia, then yeah i am the village idiot. why in the hell would i welcome a confused wannnabee hellene like you, and being an md means shit on a history and politics forum yatre mou.
ignore as much as you like thats the best way to stay ignorant like a drvo.

[Soldier of Macedon]

............it makes no sense that the overwhelming majority of Slav-speaking Christians would accept being labelled Bulgarians when they were in fact not.

It makes sense if you take into account the facts and all the historical circumstances prevalent during that time. You clearly don't intend to do this, therefore you will only tell lies and half-truths as a result.

Giorikas, you are not even a Bulgarian, yet you have clearly come to this forum for the purpose of denying my identity, and you, a Greek, is trying to tell me who my people are and that they were 'Bulgarians'. And then you wonder why the Macedonians on this forum place the name of your nation in "quotation" marks, you have shown yourself unworthy of their respect. While you will grudgingly accept to cease your clearly natural sense of racism by calling my people by the name they identify with, every single one of your posts is aimed at denying the identity of my people. Maybe it wasn't such a bad thing you slithered away after all then, re megale........

Regarding the activity of the Macedonian revolutionaries, it was a Macedonian movement, aimed at liberating Macedonia and the Macedonian people. That is the bottom line. You have tried, really hard, to resist your temptations at racist remarks and the denial of another people's history in which you have no clue or relation, but to not avail.

The Miladinov brothers; I can't properly judge if this dialect as you describe it.............

You can't properly judge anything you jester, just take a look at the dribble full of lies you produced in your previous posts. You perceptions about Macedonians is more akin to people thinking the world is flat, that is how off the mark you are.

Now, Rum: if a Greek in Turkey was (and still is to this day) called Rum, then that did not offend them. It doesn't bother me that I am a Yunan for them, but my brothers in Turkey are 'Rum', while I call myself Ellinas, and in English that would be Greek. But do not try to tell a Thessalonian that he's Bulgarian ;-) If I would meet somebody in Turkey that speaks Greek and I consider to be Greek but he or she identifies himself as Turk (and there are such cases) then it would sadden me. But I'd have to accept his right to choose his identity. I any case there is nothing else one could do. I don't believe in enforcing an identity on someone. He or she is a Turk if he or she made that choice.

Hahaha, now that did make me laugh. Who said anything about 'Greeks' in Turkey today? ALL of your comments are about the Macedonians, before they realised their own state. Before the state of the modern "Hellenes" was born, ALL of its inhabitants were called ROMANS - ROMANS.

Like I said before,

You have only called yourselves Hellenes since the 19th century and you think you have the right to question the name of my identity?

Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud here. I repeat, I am not stating that there were no etnic Macedonians. I am also not saying that Macedonians are Bulgarians.

You are clearly denying the identity of the Macedonians, you are clearly calling 'Bulgarian' the Macedonians of today, many of whom in the past (before they created their state) referred to themselves as 'Greeks' or 'Bulgarians' due to religious, linguistic and class distinction. You are a racist, and a cunning liar, and as such, you will provide an endless barrage of lies in response no matter what facts and truths are shown your way.

Giving somebody the opportunity to show and support the other (Bulgarians in this case) side, I have no problem with that, but when somebody that is not even from the other side (Greek), makes it his sole purpose to endlessly spew up repetitive and outdated remarks about the Macedonians, which have racist undertones full of lies, that is a problem for me.

If I wanted to read the garbage full of denial of the Macedonian identity, like the shit full of lies you wote above, I would have gone to your breeding grounds at racist websites like the maggotsontheweb.

Take a temporary (ban) holiday, we will see you in a few weeks, I think it will do you some good, as evidently your previous absence was not extensive enough.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Oh, and Giorikas, if you decide to slither back in a few weeks once your ban is lifted, the first racist remark of denial you make will be your last. Try and display a little sense of dignity so that the good Greek people don't look like racist pricks as you do.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Sorry, but the people in that first video did not learn the language when they arrived. Maybe other refugees did, but not those specific people in the video.


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Dr AV*

Be sorry for yourself, not to me.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=706&page=2

The lady in black is doing most of the talking, she said that they were transferred there (Greek-occupied Macedonia) and lived among the locals (Macedonians), “what do you want after so many years, I was born here, of course we learned the language, Shto Pravish, Odam” (Macedonian words).

She says that all the people there get along fine, use similar words (?), the only thing different is that they count in Turkish. She can only count to six in Macedonian, "chetiri, pet, shest".

The moron with the grey hair and glasses asks if they understand Bulgarian? The people around the table say they understand it but not all of it.

One of the ladies says Serbian, Yugoslavian…….I think some may have said they understand, but I hear "no, no we don’t understand it" towards the end.

He asks something like is the language similar to Greek? They respond a resounding no.

At one point the lady in black doing most of the talking says something about the “dialect of Gevgelija”, which of course is Macedonian and is spoken in the Republic of Macedonia, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gevgelija

Right at the end that idiot says something like “how do you feel”, staring like some psycho at the people around the table in anticipation of a response. There was nothing but silence and stares of confusion for seconds. Finally somebody asks something like “what do you mean”, after which another says “our homeland in Greece so we are Greek”, quite unconvincingly.

Then this idiot start saying something like “there is only one Greece, bla, bla, bla” as if he is some preacher and calls over a priest, I guess he must have thought he would need spiritual back-up to convince those people that they were pure blooded Greeks.

And what about the second video ιδιοφυία?


είσαι πρόσφυγας? -- “what do you want after so many years, I was born here, of course we learned the language, Shto Pravish, Odam”

What's that?

[DrVosi]

Be sorry for yourself, not to me.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=706&page=2

And what about the second video ιδιοφυία?


είσαι πρόσφυγας? -- �what do you want after so many years, I was born here, of course we learned the language, Shto Pravish, Odam�

What's that?

I need to ask you a serious question. Who has translated this for you?
They did not do a great job.
The problem is that when they are talking amongst themselves you can pick up bits and pieces but i know you are struggling to understand the whole conversation.
As for your translation, nowhere does she say 'what do you want after so many years' and 'of course we learned the language'
Here is a better translation of what the lady is saying

'Sotiris asked me how many are there the TrakaTurkis, and i said half and half, endopie and.. host says- in petropouli?
'But now that we are born here we are the same, basically our language is matching, shto pravish , odam odam , what differences is that?? only in counting we dont match. host says- how do you count?
'We count in Turkish, but over there they say no , ve , tri , chitiri, thats as far as i know, (man in the back says - its bulgarian)
As for the rest of your translation its a bit better.

This is what you need to ask yourself. If they learned the language after they arrived why would they count in Turkish. Counting is probably the most fundamental and first thing you learn when speaking a new language.

The last question i have is this. In your humble opinion what are the people in the video? Are they Greeks , Turks, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Pomaks, Armenians etc etc

Remember , there are more parts to this show and i have the feeling you havent seen them, so after you answer my questions maybe i will put them up for you.

Take care

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Dr AV*

[TrueMacedonian]

dr av really i thought your moniker was an indication of your knowledge about these matters, mr drvo si

lololol!!!!!

[Daskalot]

I need to ask you a serious question. Who has translated this for you?
They did not do a great job.
The problem is that when they are talking amongst themselves you can pick up bits and pieces but i know you are struggling to understand the whole conversation.
As for your translation, nowhere does she say 'what do you want after so many years' and 'of course we learned the language'
Here is a better translation of what the lady is saying

'Sotiris asked me how many are there the TrakaTurkis, and i said half and half, endopie and.. host says- in petropouli?
'But now that we are born here we are the same, basically our language is matching, shto pravish , odam odam , what differences is that?? only in counting we dont match. host says- how do you count?
'We count in Turkish, but over there they say no , ve , tri , chitiri, thats as far as i know, (man in the back says - its bulgarian)
As for the rest of your translation its a bit better.

This is what you need to ask yourself. If they learned the language after they arrived why would they count in Turkish. Counting is probably the most fundamental and first thing you learn when speaking a new language.

The last question i have is this. In your humble opinion what are the people in the video? Are they Greeks , Turks, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Pomaks, Armenians etc etc

Remember , there are more parts to this show and i have the feeling you havent seen them, so after you answer my questions maybe i will put them up for you.

Take care

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Dr AV*

just out of curiosity, what kind of Greek are you? Lets start with the easy question, are you from Greek annexed Macedonia?

[El Bre]

This is what you need to ask yourself. If they learned the language after they arrived why would they count in Turkish. Counting is probably the most fundamental and first thing you learn when speaking a new language.

Sorry Dr Drvo, or is that Mr Ed? this is blatantly false. Most people revert back to their original language when adding or counting.

[Delodephius]

That's true. I always count in Slovak, never Serbian or English.

[osiris]

fucking hopless another greek drvo trying to twist raelity to suit their patheticaly in secure hellenic world view. why the fuck would a so called greek in greece count in turkish.

[DrVosi]

I was hoping Soldier who initially posted this video would respond.
From the other responses it seems that the other members feel that these people are Turks or Turkish speakers.
Here is the rest of the show, enjoy, at 5:30 we get an explanation.
YouTube - �*ολύπετρο Κιλκίς02

Translation...
Host - They call you TrakaTurkides, why?
Priest - From the word ' taka tuka ' come here, go there, our people speak a language which is 40/100 Slavo/Russian/Bulgarian , 40/100 Persian/Turkish/Arabic , 15/100 Greek and 5/100 Arvanitic. It is the only language which was spoken in all Asia Minor. This language is not spoken anywhere else in the world.
He then talks about how they were to be settled near the Bulgarian border but because later on they would think that they were Bulgarians they did not want to go there. He then asks if they still speak it and the priest says they do but they kids unfortunately dont.

Thats all i wanted to point out, that they didnt learn it when they arrived, they actually brought the language with them.

To El Bre - If my statement is blatantly false then why dont they count in Macedonian, the original inhabitants came to Asia Minor in the 1500's from Ohrid. Thats in another part , would you like to see it ?
These people have Macedonian roots.

To Daskalot - Yes Giannitsa and Naousa , and you?
To Osiris - On ignore

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Dr AV*

[Soldier of Macedon]

I need to ask you a serious question. Who has translated this for you?

I need to ask you a serious question. Were your eyes closed when you wrote what you did? Where exactly do you find the great distinction between this,

'what do you want after so many years' and 'of course we learned the language'

And this,

'But now that we are born here we are the same, basically our language is matching

That language uses words such as Shto Pravish , Odam. That is not Greek, it is the Macedonian language.

what differences is that?? only in counting we dont match. host says- how do you count?
'We count in Turkish, but over there they say no , ve , tri , chitiri, thats as far as i know

The locals would of course count in Macedonian, as dve, tri chetiri are of the same language as shto pravish and odam - the Macedonian language.

This is what you need to ask yourself. If they learned the language after they arrived why would they count in Turkish. Counting is probably the most fundamental and first thing you learn when speaking a new language.

Why would they count in Turkish then? Because they came from Turkey. Your example about the 'fundamental' things one first learns when speaking a new language is completely incoherent and flawed. Most of the Prosfiga spoke Turkish as a first language, Greek was the 'official' language of their new state which they would forever after hear in media, schools, churches, etc, but Macedonian was the language of the locals in "Northern Greece" (Greek-occupied Macedonia), that is why these Christian Turks picked up the language, and many of them quite well actually. Fancy that, a language that Greece denies exists, with absolutely no support in the media, schools, churches, etc, was still learned and spoken by Christian Turks. That is something you need to come to terms with.

he last question i have is this. In your humble opinion what are the people in the video? Are they Greeks , Turks, Bulgarians, Macedonians, Pomaks, Armenians etc etc

Mostly Prosfiga, whatever they are, nothing they say before or after can dispute the fact that Prosfiga learned MY language in a state that denies its existence. Whatever you come up with next, that fact will remain, Shto Pravish, Odam, Tri, Chetiri, etc is Macedonian.

man in the back says - its bulgarian

Really? Some 'man' in the back? What do the rest say when they are asked?

The moron with the grey hair and glasses asks if they understand Bulgarian? The people around the table say they understand it but not all of it.

One of the ladies says Serbian, Yugoslavian…….I think some may have said they understand, but I hear "no, no we don’t understand it" towards the end.

He asks something like is the language similar to Greek? They respond a resounding NO.

At one point the lady in black doing most of the talking says something about the “dialect of Gevgelija”, which of course is Macedonian and is spoken in the Republic of Macedonia, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gevgelija

And with regard to this video that you posted about this mystery language that nobody has ever heard of up until now, do you have anything documenting its existence? What is it called, another 'Greek' dialect? How can we confirm that the Slavic words used in this mystery language were not learned from the Macedonians, as so many, many other Prosfiga did?

By the way, do you agree with the people in the video who say that this mystery language which is 40% Slavic is "the only language which was spoken in all Asia Minor"? Are these your ancient Ionians that "came home"?