Hellenic religion

[Vangelovski]

it is much easier for me to express myself in Macedonian, so if someone is not understaning some part, pls ask for translation and iŽll try my best.

@ Vangelovski:

brat, Krstot kako simbol pocnuva da se koristi od 5ti vek.

ja svakjas razlikata od 5 veka?

kako e zapishano imeto Isusovo vo "Arapskite" i Evrejskite izvori? Jeshua? Joshua?

jas sum prilicno siguren deka nema NIKAKVA vrska so Krst i "Christ", zato sho Christ e od Krst!

samiot Krst kako simbol e VMETNAT mnogu pokasno.

Duri i da zemime deka Hristos idi od nekojsi grcki zbor koj sho znaci Spasitel, sepak od Hristos do CHRIST ima golema razlika i golem pat.

Krstot kako simbol, i imeto Christ se vmetnati, nametnati, ti se svigjalo tebe i mene, ili ne ni se svigjalo, to e

mislam deka tolku od mene za nokjva, preumoren sum, 4:35 am tuka :P

pozdrav

The term Christ does not come from the word cross. Christ means messiah.

I'm not sure where you get your information from.

[Vangelovski]

lol

samo sho procitav tvojot post...

seems that you are not able to understand the chronology

somehow you are right, God is timeless, so who cares for chronology and logic

btw, the Jehova Witnesses are kind of Christians.

again, it doesnt metter if you and me personaly like it, or not.

"od shumata ne gi gledas drvjata" nice sentence... kako sakas vrti ja

I'm not sure what chronology you are referring to here?

There is no such thing a "kind of Christians". You either accept Jesus as God and Saviour or you do not.

[Vangelovski]

again the love to the neighbor

you stick to the terminology featured - promoted by those who killed and persecuted those who believed in Isus Ristos.

LOL!

bro, those hypocrits who made Nikea, and introduced the Cross and "Christ" to the world, are the same who persecuted those who believed in the One God, and Isus as his Son and Prophet.

just stick to their terminology, but pls dont try to show me "kaj se na dedo mi nivite"

my un-alphabet grandmother knew more about Risjanstvo than complete Vatikan and diverse Masters and Magisters, i see...

and serious, get some Macedonian Education, about our language, culture, tradition...

I have absolutely no idea what you are referring to here. Maybe it is your own system of religious belief? What is this "Risjanstvo" you are referring to if not the Macedonian word for "Christianity"?

[julie]

Vangelovski, are you stating that what your interpetation is , is the word of God? and that you are the only person on this forum that knows?

It is a little insulting to insinuate, no, state, that what you write is the way it is and that eveybody else is wrong if they dont accept it. Unless you yourself are God, I suggest you stop judging other people, because you will be judged by God for being so judgemental when your time comes

I have a personal relationship with God. I have my belief and have done this without the need to read the holy bible every day or go and pray in bricks and mortar man made built church with paintings and objects that was considered sinful "praying to false gods"

I am going to divulge something about myself and you can poo poo it all you want I dont care.
There is no heaven. I know. there is an omni presence and I will tell you how I know this.

When I was 19 years old my appendix burst. I had no knowledge other than feeling unwell for a few weeks. I was rushed to hospital and operated on within a couple of hours.
They provided the anaesthesia. I was suddenly made aware of being very light and at peace. It was not the anaesthetic and felt myself rise. I was in a room and looked down on doctors and nurses frantically trying to save someones life. I saw them using the paddles and trying to revive this person. As I felt myself floating I saw that it was me on the table. I was in a place where I felt very comfortable and peace, and love. A totally different dimension, It was a knowing that I was somewhere totally ethereal. I felt the presence of other souls around me and I loved the feeling of love I cant explain. It felt awesome. I did not want to leave this place, of great love, there was no earthly looking bodies or garden or man with a white beard, just a presence of other loving souls. There were no gates of ST peter, no gardens, it was just a state of being.

No one spoke in any language, but the communication I received was that I had to go back because my life purpose was not fulfilled. I dont know how I knew this then because no one spoke there were no words. No sound, smell, it was just a state of being.I did not want to go back, and with a jolt I fell into my earthly body.
this place had no judgement that you reek of.

When I came out of intensive care, I told the nurse what I saw and she said it could not be possible, people dont dream undeer anaesthesia. It was not a dream. I also was able to tell the nurse how many people were in that room and came into the theatre and she was surprised when I recounted what happened to her

I couldnot stop thinking about what happened, and did not tell anyone, but I started praying then, and knew this dimension may have been "heaven"

15 years later, my gall bladder bursts. I tend to make sure my bodily organs do this so peritonitis sets in, when I get sick, I really do it well

THE SAME THING HAPPENED

once again I am out of my body, flatline and being resuscitated on the operrating table. They found I have an allergy to morphine based substances which puts me under cardiac arrest, where my heart just stops beating.

This time I really wanted to stay where I was and communicated that I wanted to stay, and once again they/it/he/omni present souls whatever it was said the same thing, that I have not fulfilled my life purpose.

With hreatest disappointment, I found myself back again.
I have no fear of dying, because "heaven" is a place of NO JUDGEMENT, but great love and kindness .
I started reading books and whatever I could grab my hands on about people with out of body experiences. This eventually lead me to read about the philosophies of Buddhism.

BUDDHISM
I started reading about how souls reincarnate and they go to another dimension where for 40 days there souls are cleansed and purified before they come back again. The light globe went off in my head at that point because this is how it happens.

Yes i believe in a greater power, GOD is not man or woman, but an omnipresent being. The love is something that no one can ever experience on the earthly plane. It is all encompassing, and there is no judgement , whatsoever. It is free will. It may be destined. And its about being the best person you can possible be.

Yes, Jesus was a great prohet, teacher, healer, he was many things. Perfect. he was the only perfect human being ever. Jesus did not judge others.

We are all God Vangelovski, the Hindu have a greeting - the higher sacred divine soul within me honours and acknowledges and recognises the sacred diving soul within you.
When we pray we are praying to us, and that piece of God that is within us.

That is my evidence. My experience. Slam me and poo poo it all you like. Being so judgemental and not accepting that every soul has free will if they dont listen to your INTERPRETATION , well, I hope they see it fit, the omnipresent GOG to make sure you do go to heaven.
I will live the rest of my life, however long I have left, to being loving and kind, to have compassion and not enforce judgement on others, and to allow every soul their GODGIVEN right to have free will

That is all

[Vangelovski]

Julie,

I can't explain what you experienced. Scientists are not able to explain them and the Bible does not reveal anything in relation to them. As for St. Peter's gates and the rest, that is just television.

I'm not sure how much of the Bible you have read and whether you have researched it further through reading the literally thousands of books on Christianity. However, the Bible is very clear.

I've said this repeadetly, you do not have to accept my "intepretation" - you can read it for yourself. You can research it. You can see what scholars make of it. You can see what theologians make of it. You will pretty much get the same answer.

At the end of the day, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise, it says that the only way to Salvation is through Christ. And yes, God has given you free will - you and you alone choose whether to accept Him as He has revealed Himself to us in the Bible or not.

I don't think I've judged you in anyway or form - I'm merely trying to explain the basics of Christianity - if you feel insulted or judged, then it may be that you have a problem with the Bible and not me?

[julie]

YouTube - Makedonska molitva - МаĐșĐ”ĐŽĐŸĐœŃĐșĐ° ĐŒĐŸĐ»ĐžŃ‚ĐČĐ° ĐŸĐŽ ĐąĐŸĐŒĐžŃœ - Macedonian prayer

[julie]

I dont need nor want any scholar to tell me what I experienced. They were not there. They can take their pieces of degrees papers and shove them where the sun dont shine.
I dont need a written book to tell me what I esperienced.
I was the one that experienced it.
I am not an inherently bad sinful person. I dont and have never lived my life that way.
I know my path, I know GOD, I have my own personal relationship with Him, and have done so for the last 25 years of my life, since that first experience.
That is why I try not to jduge others , and I beleive in free will, because my soul is sacred, it is part of GOD.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I cannot speak on anyone else's behalf, but my intention was to dispel some of the misconceptions about Christianity. Many people profess to be one thing or another without fully understanding what it is they supposedly believe (not aimed at you SoM).

What makes one a Christian is their belief in Jesus as their God and Saviour.

Vangelovski, does this mean that I am 'not' a Christian because I don't have the same understanding regarding Christianity as others? Or, does it make me any less of a Christian if I don't fully adhere to the beliefs as outlined by others?

I would like to ask you all this, what is more important to you, your Macedonian identity or your Christian one? I understand that they tie into each other in many ways, so I will give you an example to measure your responses.

You are isolated somewhere together with two other people, one being a Macedonian Muslim who speaks the same language as we do, has the same culture and customs, etc, and the other is a Greek Christian who doesn't even recognise your right to exist, but is a devout believer in the same faith as us. Leave aside character type, attitude, etc, as the Macedonian might turn out to be a prick and the Greek a really good bloke, but that is not the point of the question here.

Who would you feel more affinity to? For me, it's the Macedonian. At the end of the day, religion aside, the Macedonian is the same as me, whereas the Greek, religion aside, has little to do with me. In principle. After this initial stage is where character, attitude, etc will come into effect, because each person should be considered individually. I will never reject a Greek just because he is a Greek, as I wouldn't always accept a Macedonian just because he is a Christian (or Macedonian).

[Vangelovski]

SoM,

You either accept Jesus as your God and Saviour or you don't. There are no shades of grey in that statement. I didn't make this up - I'm simply relaying the message as it is found in the Bible. If it doesn't sit well with you, you should take it up with Management. In the overall organisation, I'm just the garbo

In relation to your other point, I'm not Buktop so don't try to insult my intelligence by questioning my loyalty to the cause in a round'a'bout way. I have an "affinity" with many people based on many different factors, Macedonians and non-Macedonians, Christians and non-Christians. I don't see a contradiction between the cause and faith.

[julie]

SoM, we are what we are born, unless brainwashed into it otherwise. Macedonian blood flows through my veins, so that is what makes me as a person. My personal beliefs are that, and no one should tell you or anyone what it right or wrong, it is life experience.

The Macedonian Muslim anyday over the traiterous Greeks for me, as many bratko

Vangelovski, Jesus Christ is the saviour for all human souls in the world bratko

[Bratot]

Bratot,

You raised the issues of technology and how it supposedly contradicts the commandments - I'm still at a loss of what you were originally trying to say.

You provided the example of technology being used to bring about temptation (which nobody denies) and then you said that books do that as well. Are you now saying that technology itself is not a bad thing seeing as books have existed for centuries?

Vangelovski,

Again your fake interpretations as usually will not help not in this nor in any of your discussions.
By twisting words, insinuating, arogantly misleading and simmilar stuff only irritate and every discussion with you is counter productive.

But I got used to it since you simply have the lack of ability for fair debate and you use such techniques to masque your inability to face arguments. Seen all the time.

I never said technology contradicts the commandments, I never said the technology brings temptation as books do, it's another pitiful effort of yours to twist the words of your opponent.

I said the commandments couldn't predict the development of the technology and their influence on our society and they can't be adjusted rightly.

After you said the TV has no moral value in itself I also said the content of some movie can be based on a book or it can be a religious chanel, so yes it DOES have the influence since is used also by the Church to propagate their religion.

There is no commandment against the video games or television but there you have examples such as:

„Ресетирање“ и „Фајт клаб“ се некои од заплашувачките игри што ги практикуваат младите. Родителите, медиумите и Интернетот придонесуваат децата да играат вакви нездрави игри, сметаат педагози и директори на училишта

http://novamakedonija.com.mk/NewsDetal.asp?vest=7710104204&id=9&setIzdanie=22027

Another thing is the content on the TV is not restricted by the commanmends and the visual temptation as you prefer to call it makes stronger urge or it's harder to resist, you have huge amount of sexual contexts in comercials, movies, music videos etc. because the sex is attractive and helps making profit of it.

It has more to do with our psychology and every person is differently built.

Even though
Further, none of the laws you provided compel us to disobey God's commandments.

Yes they do, all of those I mentioned.

An example for you from the Australian Constitution, does you Constitution is prohibiting the free exercise of any religion?

Or do you swear that you will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her
Majesty Queen Victoria?

I think you are breaking the very first commandments by accepting the Australian Constitution.

As for your other examples, I think you are relying on Catholic "tradition".

I'm relying onthe Christian Church religious teaching as out of date for some issues.

You need to understand that the commandments tell us what is morally good and what is morally bad. Everytime a moral dilemma arises, we have a choice. God gave us free will. We have a choice as to whether we believe in Him or not. We have a choice to either obey his commandments or not.

It's not about God but the interpretations you and many church officials do and present it as "God's will".

If you interpet that God "gave" us a freedom of choice that's pretty much contradicting the FIRST COMMANDMENT.

There are many other phylosopical teachings older than the Christianity that teach and propagate moral life.

I'm not here to claim Christians are perfect, far from it. That is the very reason we need to accept Jesus as our God and Saviour.

Alright, than you should change the whole Christianity since the people today are praying to more than one "person", you have the Pope, some Saints proclaimed by the Church, the Holy Spirit, to Virgin Mary, Jesus, John, the Angels and every other prayer that exist in our christian books, again breaking the very fisrt few commandments.

That's why the religious teaching we follow is full of interpretations and contradicitons.

[Atanasovski]

The problem is which denomination. They all have there own translations ... lol...... Thanks for your sugestion. I have a personal relationship and i am happy with it.

God isn't bound by the walls of a church or the latest and best translation on the shelf.

Flick through some of the translations and choose one that reads best for you. Get your hands onto a study bible. Search bible commentry on the net.

There is something genuine about you and i think you do have a personal relationship with God. But sometimes i wonder how one could really grow into a personal relationship without reading their bible - I'm not talking about going to church or listening to men in costumes.. Just digging into the bible to learn about your heavenly father and his character and will.

[Soldier of Macedon]

You either accept Jesus as your God and Saviour or you don't. There are no shades of grey in that statement. I didn't make this up - I'm simply relaying the message as it is found in the Bible.

I do accept it, but not everything the stories entail. Does that exclude me from being a Christian? Absolutely not. Am I an Anti-Christian? Absolutely not. Does it exclude me from being a devout worshipper? I guess so, and that is the difference I see between those that think like myself and those that think like you. The matter has nothing to do with who is 'right' or 'wrong'.

In relation to your other point, I'm not Buktop so don't try to insult my intelligence by questioning my loyalty to the cause in a round'a'bout way. I have an "affinity" with many people based on many different factors, Macedonians and non-Macedonians, Christians and non-Christians. I don't see a contradiction between the cause and faith.

How am I insulting your intelligence? How am I questioning your loyalty? I asked a simple question, I will ask it again in an even more direct way - What is more important to you, your Macedonian or Christian identity? If you don't want to answer it because you may reveal a contradiction of beliefs or for whatever other reason, then don't, but don't accuse me of trying to insult 'your' intelligence when that is clearly not the case, and furthermore, when the question was posed to everybody and not you specifically.

[Atanasovski]

I do accept it, but not everything the stories entail. Does that exclude me from being a Christian? Absolutely not. Am I an Anti-Christian? Absolutely not. Does it exclude me from being a devout worshipper? I guess so, and that is the difference I see between those that think like myself and those that think like you. The matter has nothing to do with who is 'right' or 'wrong'.

I really don't think you have to accept absolute biblical inerrancy in order to be saved. In saying that, if i thought the bible was riddled with errors, contradictions, legends and invented stories, i just wouldn't be able to accept any of it...
I also dont believe you have to know the bible back to front in order to be saved.
For example, there are those who don't have a translation, but have the gospel presented to them by missionaries. Again, there are those who are saved on their death beds.

Just out of curiosity, what do and don't you accept? Atleast some things, if not a lot of things, are crucial... surely?...

[julie]

Atanosovski, when you say to be saved batko, from what? and for what
I dont read the bible everyday, i have not read the bible from cover to cover for a few years, i do sometimes sit and read excertps from it. I do believe in God and I do beleive Jesus Christ as our saviour, but some people take everything too literally, and it pleases me with your reponse that you dont have to preach the bible daily and be a frequent church goer to be a believer.