Political Scandals and Judiciary Corruption in Macedonia

[Dimko-piperkata]

I cant believe how careless they speak about such delicate issues over mobile phone especially every child knows that everything spoken can be bugged !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaFqsIVxNP4

[DedoAleko]

I cant believe how careless they speak about such delicate issues over mobile phone especially every child knows that everything spoken can be bugged !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaFqsIVxNP4

I am not suggesting anything, but bear in mind all these materials are obtained illegally and presented to the public without a single shread of evidence about it's authenticity! We are still waiting for the official institutional stance.

p.s. There is rumor that a foreign ambassador will be expelled from the country for involvement.
link: Кој амбасадор ќе биде протеран од Скопје?

[Toska]

dint the Germans say that the only way, anyone in Macedonia can obtain recordings was through VIP in Germany ???

[DraganOfStip]

I am not suggesting anything, but bear in mind all these materials are obtained illegally and presented to the public without a single shread of evidence about it's authenticity!

At the end of the day,who made the recordings and who turned them over to the oposition is a secondary issue.
As Gocka pointed out in the other thread,it is most likely that they were made by a foreign intelligence service because the ruling party recording themselves doing criminal activities just doesn't make any sense.
And as far as authenticity is concerned - no one from DPMNE has yet denied that these conversations took place,so that alone is an indication that the recordings are authentic.
We just have to wait and see...

[Dimko-piperkata]

yesterday I´ve listened to about 20 recordings and for me it´s 100% authentic...BUT ok, it´s "non professional" to attitute and act this way they did....BUT if we had such records from sdsm, no matter they were in power or not, I bet we would hear much much more worse conversations !

[DedoAleko]

....BUT if we had such records from sdsm, no matter they were in power or not, I bet we would hear much much more worse conversations !

As a matter of fact, there are such records:

Link: Zaev says: "Shooting is yet to come!"

Link: Zaev says: "We will eat them alive!"

Link: Zaev says We must bend our spine for the greeks and change our name!"

Link: Zaev says To be called slavomacedonians is acceptable.

There are so many anti-Macedonian statements and actions this pardoned criminal and his sds made, I do not understand how can there be still mAcedonians standing by his side!

[ramo]

The audio recordings are 100 % authentic. Few politicians already confirmed publicly the authenticity, few reporters also confirmed public. Even gruevski confirmed that part of them are true, but he manipulates with part of the public and the old people in the country by saying that the recordings are out of context, which of course is not truth. Gruevski also started publishing videos from his talks with zaev taken in his cabinet, which is illegal because they are materials from ongoing court. Of course he is coward and his brainwashing media are saying "Youtube" is the source of these videos taken by the ministry of interior. I think the only people in macedonia that believe gruevski are the old people (+65). It is easiest to manipulate them with 10 euro increase in pension and they have no knowledge of using other sources of information (internet, social networks, even talking with other people) and are eating what is served from the bought and blackmailed media and reporters.

[VMRO]

Ramo, just a question.

What would you like to happen in response to this scandal?

[DraganOfStip]

I don't know about you,but I'd really like to hear recordings of Dzingo
That pig has been in power since '91 with both DPMNE and SDSM (and I have also heard that he held a high-ranking position in the former communist system as well).
Has been sucking up to Branko,Ljubco and now Grujo just so he can keep his fat ass on the leather seat.
He's the worst scum of them all,does he ever wonder where his soul will end up in the afterlife?

[Volokin]

Macedonia tapes reveal blatant election trickery

9 March 2015

New batch of bugged conversations feature Interior Minister discussing how to bus in foreigners to vote in Macedonian elections, the risks of sticking dozens of these ‘little people’ in one address and how she intends to ‘drag gypsies’ to polling stations.

The ruling VMRO DPMNE party has orchestrated massive electoral fraud during the past elections, using fictive voters, fake ID cards, pressure on individuals and firms and misuse of police and administration, the opposition Social Democrats claimed on Friday.

Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski's VMRO DPMNE used systemic blackmail and other wholly unconstitutional mechanisms to rig the elections, the head of the Social Democratic Party, Zoran Zaev, declared on Friday, unveiling the latest tranche of wiretapped conversations.

“From the tapes you can witness how the group in power [around Gruevski] has been rigging and stealing elections, a practice unprecedented anywhere in the world,” Zaev told reporters.

At a press conference, the opposition presented several groups of wiretapped conversations from the March 2013 local election involving what appear to be the Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski, Interior Minister Gordana Jankuloska, Transport Minister Mile Janakieski and other top officials.

In one conversation, Interior Minister Jankuloska appears to substantiate opposition claims made during the past elections - that VMRO DPMNE bused in ethnic Macedonians from the Prespa region of neighbouring Albania, issued them with ID cards and placed them temporarily in addresses in Macedonia until election day, when escorts took them to the polls to vote for the ruling party.

However, she voices concern about one “risky” detail, which is that many of these foreign nationals issued with IDs had been placed at the same address, which might be spotted.
“There is one risky thing which we knew, and that’s why we told the [local VMRO party] committees to give us more addresses,” she says.

“You know we have 50 people in a flat of 40 square meters. But it is what it is," she tells her interlocutor. “You know, when we were at the Prime Minister's, I insisted that the committees give more addresses, which they didn't do,” she adds.

In another conversation, Transport Minister Janakieski can be heard telling his interlocutor about people being brought from a town in Macedonia outside the capital to vote in the Skopje municipality of Gazi Baba.

“Kire, these people who are in Gazi Baba from [the town of] Sveti Nikole, are they [registered] at one address or at several?” he asks.

“No, they have been dispersed,” the voice replies, to which Janakieski asks whether it is true that “about 15 of them reside at one address”.

In another conversation, a female voice reports to Minister Jankuloska about the overcrowded addresses where some of the people given fake IDs are temporarily residing. The two appear to arrange the checkups demanded by election observers, but using “our policemen”, so that no fraud is detected.

“They have reported 42 [voters] in one house, 44 in another one, in villages with 40 voters altogether. One house has 44, at some places there are 19, at some 22, at some 42... We are worrying if everything hits the media,” the voice tells the Interior Minister.

“They say the head of the administrative service is a commie [an abusive term for the Social Democrats]... We are under observation and I fear if they could engage the OSCE,” the same voice tells Jankuloska.

Jankuloska advises caution: “With every passing day, the pressure is getting bigger… We cannot have 40 people in a village of five voters... Let’s try to have more [such voters] but do it cautiously.”

Another conversation, Jankuloska cracks a joke about some the “little people” they have engaged to do carry out the voting fraud.

“These little people go and vote and remain silent, nodding with their heads... It's a loony bin but these little people do vote,” she can be heard saying.

“The little people enter and vote holding their hands - it’s a circus, a loony bin. Some of the media recorded them. I will go out now at 7 [for a press conference after voting] and say it was all quiet, there were no reports,” Jankuloska says, laughingly.

Another call portrays an alleged conversation between Prime Minister Gruevski and Transport Minister Janakieski during the first round of the 2013 local election.

After Janakieski reports that the ruling party is lagging behind the opposition in the Skopje municipality of Centar, Gruevski rejoins: “If we had now these Prespans, [people from Prespa in Albania] we would have finished the job.”

In another conversation, when Janakieski again reports that the ruling party is losing the election in Centar, Gruevski says: “Tell our people there to produce as many invalid ballots as they can. Wherever they can they should produce invalid ballots,” presumably so that another round is held.

Gruevski also appears to order the seizure or copying of local voting records from the polling stations, “so that we can judge [the vote] later”.

In another conversation, Jankuloska tells Janakieski that it is a routine practice for the police under her control to stop buses filled with opposition members in order to reduce their numbers attending opposition party rallies.

“Every time they have a rally we send their buses for technical checkups… We do this to all of them but especially to SDSM.”

Jankuloska also makes a racist-sounding remark about the Roma voters the party intends to “drag” to vote.

“In places where the result is tight, do not sign the electoral reports so that we can file complaints afterwards. Afterward, we will drag one gypsy after another by their ears and take them out to vote,” she says.

In a conversation between Janakieski and Martin Protugjer, the Prime Minister's chief of staff, the latter issues a blood-curdling threats about the then head of the Football Federation of Macedonia, who has not helped their party in the election by issuing free tickets for a football match.

“If he does not give them [the tickets] by Monday, tell him that he and his wife and his children will end up in a ditch somewhere,” Protugjer says. “I will f..k that Communist faggot’s mother!” he adds.

The opposition began revealing the wiretapped conversations on February 9. Zaev alleged that the government had wiretapped over 20,000 people in the country of 2 million.

He said the eavesdropping had been orchestrated by Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski and the secret police chief, Saso Mijalkov.

Since then, the opposition has released further batches of tapped conversations, suggesting routine interference in the work of the courts, among other matters.

Gruevski, in power since 2006, has accused Zaev of collaborating with an unnamed foreign secret service to obtain the material.

He has also accused Zaev of trying to use the material to blackmail state officials in order to grab power. His passport has been confiscated. Zaev has denied collaborating with foreign intelligence, insisting that all the material came from sources in Macedonia's own intelligence services.

By Sinisa Jakov Marusic

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/181396/macedonia-tapes-reveal-blatant-election-trickery.html

Incriminating evidence here.

[ramo]

Ramo, just a question.

What would you like to happen in response to this scandal?

What i wanted to happen already happened. Most of the people know the truth about the media, the court system and the personal "qualities" of the people that lead the country.

[Gocka]

And now what, what would you want to see as an ideal scenario?

What i wanted to happen already happened. Most of the people know the truth about the media, the court system and the personal "qualities" of the people that lead the country.

[VMRO]

And now what, what would you want to see as an ideal scenario?

That's what i wanted him to answer... ok Gruevski and co implicated in a scandal...

But what now? i'm sure Zaev could have used a better way of doing what he is doing, all the foreign companies interested in investing in Macedonia will be put off now.

[ramo]

That's what i wanted him to answer... ok Gruevski and co implicated in a scandal...

But what now? i'm sure Zaev could have used a better way of doing what he is doing, all the foreign companies interested in investing in Macedonia will be put off now.

How do you mean scandal? Did any of you heard the recordings? Children without parents form social institutions are pressured to vote "right", soldiers, policeman, public administration forced to vote for vmro. "Barabi" (bullies) working in Ministry of Interior taken on election day to beat and arrest voters, threats that people will be fired, threats that people will end up dead ("vo endek"), threats that Tose Proeski museum will be shut down because his family is not supporting the government, shutting down elevators so the old people can not climb the buildings and vote where they know the opposition has many supporters, plot to steal election material etc etc. (and this is only a small percentage of the stupidities done) This is not a scandal, this is very close to dictatorship. If you continue to support these people you will see 80 percent of the population between 24 - 40 years old in Macedonia to became your fellow citizens in the counties you live. That is the sad reality.

P.S. The salaries in the companies that invest in Macedonia are 150 euro. Less than in China. It is modern slavery. Those are stories for children you write about stopping of some famous investments. Ask the people living here not what the media is saying.

P.P.S. The ideal scenario is people get to vote free.

[VMRO]

How do you mean scandal? Did any of you heard the recordings? Children without parents form social institutions are pressured to vote "right", soldiers, policeman, public administration forced to vote for vmro. "Barabi" (bullies) working in Ministry of Interior taken on election day to beat and arrest voters, threats that people will be fired, threats that people will end up dead ("vo endek"), threats that Tose Proeski museum will be shut down because his family is not supporting the government, shutting down elevators so the old people can not climb the buildings and vote where they know the opposition has many supporters, plot to steal election material etc etc. (and this is only a small percentage of the stupidities done) This is not a scandal, this is very close to dictatorship. If you continue to support these people you will see 80 percent of the population between 24 - 40 years old in Macedonia to became your fellow citizens in the counties you live. That is the sad reality.

P.S. The salaries in the companies that invest in Macedonia are 150 euro. Less than in China. It is modern slavery. Those are stories for children you write about stopping of some famous investments. Ask the people living here not what the media is saying.

P.P.S. The ideal scenario is people get to vote free.

I'm not supporting DPMNE, but the opposition is no better.

Let's not forget they used the same tactics when their was a referendum organised against the Decentralization in Macedonia. SDSM came out and made sure it failed.

SDSM threatened people that they will lose their jobs if they voted against or even turned up to the polls.

In reality, both are the same shit.