Macedonia and the European Union

[JPMKD]

Good maybe this will wake people u......oh wait, no it won't......
I shoulda know when they bowed and became Fyromainians to not keep any hope up. I already ranted on this in the Germany thread.
But, very typical of EU, and typical on the carrot chasers....and Balkan boneheads. Speaking of which, how about those Bulgarians in the football match? That's just the kind of thing the EU types will look at and think "Why another country from that region?"
Not that The Central Balkan Republic (Yes, the CBRdonians!) has western Euro ideals anymore than the rest of the Balkans....

I think I'll go bother the neighbors with some sad guitar sounds.....(And maybe make that soundcloud account finally)

[Carlin]

Emmerson asks: "Is Spain still committed to a European model of democracy?"

URL:

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/politics/emmerson-spain-european-democracy-verdicts_430436_102.html

Marta Lasalas

Barcelona. Tuesday, 15 October 2019

British human rights lawyer Ben Emmerson has warned that Monday's court decision to give heavy jail sentences to Catalan pro-independence leaders places Spain on a "collision course with the United Nations, the international community and the international rule of law." "It is a dark day for democracy in Spain," said Emmerson, who is part of the legal team which presented the Catalan political prisoners' case to the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detentions. The UN Working Group concluded that the Catalan pro-independence leaders who were part of the case (seven of those now convicted for sedition) were wrongfully held in custody and called for their immediate release, but Spain ignored the UN ruling.

Emmerson warned in a statement that the decision taken by Spain's Supreme Court, "torpedoes the possibility of a peaceful resolution of the political crisis in Catalonia" He said the court had "quite deliberately dropped an incendiary device into a tinder box". For this reason, he considers it vital for all parties to remain calm, and redouble their efforts for a negotiated solution, before the situation "spirals out of control".

The British lawyer says that the debate has now gone well beyond the question of independence: "It’s about whether Spain remains committed to the European model of democracy. This is a truly chilling decision for European democracy as a whole, which will reverberate throughout the continent."

Emmerson added, sharing his declarations on Twitter, that he believes the case has a significance that goes far beyond Europe: "If an EU Member State can get away with locking up democrats" on this basis, he asked, "what message does this send to oppressive regimes elsewhere in the world?"

The lawyer also used Twitter to share the comments made by prominent British left-wing activist Owen Jones in response to the Supreme Court verdicts: that a "supposedly democratic European state locking up political dissidents" was "grotesque". Emmerson expressed his relief that "finally" someone close to the main UK political parties had become aware of the broader "democratic" implications of the issue.


131 injured, including one eye and one testicle lost: first day of sentence protests in Catalonia

URL:

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/news/injured-eye-testicle-sentence-protests-catalonia_430658_102.html

Organisations like Novact, Irídia, Iacta, ACDDH and La Fede have set up the platform Som Defensores (We Are Defenders) to defend and protect human rights during the protests in response to the sentences announced yesterday by Spain's Supreme Court against pro-independence leaders.

"The team Som Defensores was activated yesterday after the different protests announced after the sentence in the trial over 1st October [2017, referendum day] was announced first thing in the morning and it will remain on alert for the whole week," they say.

Among its first activities was to monitor those most seriously wounded by the police's response to the protests. According to the platform, they are aware of 29 cases of injuries caused by police during yesterday's protests. Six of the cases were people hit by foam bullets, five were hit with police batons on their heads and 16 injured on other parts of their body. They also confirmed that one person was seriously injured in one of their eyes, and another in a testicle. "The observers are also aware of kettling, limitations of movement and verbal attacks. We also highlight that 11 journalists have been injured."

"It's intolerable that foam bullets have been used again in Catalonia. Despite the Parliament's ban being only legally binding on the Mossos and not the [Spanish] National Police Corps, we understand there's a political agreement which PSC forms part of and which the Spanish government should respect", said lawyer Andrés García Berrio, a member of Irídia acting as spokesperson for Som Defensores. García Berrio will be responsible for giving legal assistance to the victims.

The lawyer also says that they "detected foam projectiles being fired directly at people who weren't doing anything and at people's heads." He adds that in many cases both Mossos and National Police Corps officers used their batons hitting from high to low, contrary to protocol.

The platform also said that "observers have suffered retentions, attacks and been identified by the security forces despite being accredited". On the other hand, they say there were Mossos officers who didn't have their ID numbers on their backs.


Incidents in Barcelona - 90 second video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUhR_FkkqvY

Video: Car accelerates at protesters blocking road in Catalonia:

https://www.elnacional.cat/en/news/video-car-accelerates-protesters-blocking-road-catalonia_430805_102.html

17 minutes of footage of clashes, incidents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpHwFdWFIhw

[Risto the Great]

Macedonia should have changed its name to "EU".

[Tomche Makedonche]

https://www.rferl.org/a/eu-no-official-accession-talks-albania-north-macedonia/30218294.html

EU Ministers Fail To Approve Official Accession Talks With Albania, North Macedonia

European Union ministers have failed to give the go-ahead to begin membership negotiations with Albania and North Macedonia, another blow to the Western Balkan nations' hopes of a speedy accession process.

"It was not a moment of glory for Europe," Enlargement Commissioner Johannes Hahn told reporters in Luxembourg on October 15 following a meeting of European affairs ministers.

Hahn added that an "overwhelming majority" of EU members supported the Commission's recommendation that talks begin but that they could not reach the required unanimous decision.

It was the third time -- following similar outcomes in June 2018 and June 2019 -- that the bloc's ministers failed to reach unanimity.

The issue will now be discussed by EU leaders when they meet in Brussels for an EU summit on October 17-18.

Several sources who asked not to be identified told RFE/RL that France played a key role in blocking the start of official accession talks with the two small nations.

Tytti Tuppurainen, Finland’s minister for European affairs, said after the meeting that "unfortunately, there were a few member states hesitant and one member state particularly against it."

"So, we were not able to reach that required unanimity in order to make the decision,"she added.

France and the Netherlands, in particular, have expressed reluctance to open the door to new members over concerns about corruption and the standards of the rule of law in some applicant nations.

French European Affairs Minister Amelie de Montchalin said that Paris did not want to separate Albania's case from that of North Macedonia, which has broader EU support, as suggested by Finland.

France "is not asking for anything new" and "is not saying no," de Montchalin told reporters after the meeting.

"We are just asking that criteria set back in June 2018 be fully applied," she added, citing reforms that she said Albania and North Macedonia had not yet completely undertaken.

However, other nations have expressed concerns that delays over membership could aid attempts by Russia or China to increase their influence in the region.

Germany's Minister for European Affairs Michael Roth warned that a "possible political vacuum" in the region "will be filled by other powers that certainly have little in common with democracy and the rule of law."

[Tomche Makedonche]

France objects to North Macedonia and Albania EU accession talks

https://www.ft.com/content/fce9e9a0-ef36-11e9-ad1e-4367d8281195

France objects to North Macedonia and Albania EU accession talks

Paris wants bloc’s enlargement process be made more demanding and reversible

Michael Peel in Brussels and Valerie Hopkins in Budapest yesterday

The prospect of the EU triggering enlargement talks with North Macedonia and Albania hung by a thread on Tuesday after France mounted fierce opposition to the Balkan countries joining the bloc.

EU foreign and Europe ministers were haggling in Luxembourg in a final effort to win agreement ahead of an EU summit this week where many member states want to launch the accession process for Skopje and Tirana as part of a strategic battle for the western Balkans.

But the French objections have laid bare tensions over the bloc’s stance on a region surrounded by EU countries in which rival powers including China, Russia and Turkey are vying for influence.

Paris argues that Albania and North Macedonia need to implement more reforms before talks can begin. It also says the wider EU accession process needs to be made more demanding and reversible.

“The French are playing with fire,” said one EU diplomat from the majority group that supports launching accession talks with both countries. “This could threaten the stability of the region. It’s a very serious thing.”

EU diplomats said Paris stood alone in its opposition to North Macedonia, which has initiated a series of reforms demanded by the EU, including changing its name to end a decades-old dispute with neighbouring Greece.

“We hope that in the end France will live up to its European leadership aspirations and join the EU consensus on North Macedonia,” said an official from another member state.

North Macedonia, which resolved “impossible” talks over its name last year and “made a democratic U-turn at home”, has been waiting for 14 years to open EU talks, the country’s foreign minister, Nikola Dimitrov, told the Financial Times. Decisions on negotiations were postponed last year and again this summer due to EU disunity.

“What’s at stake is EU enlargement policy and the European perspective for the Balkans itself. The question is if the EU will keep the lighthouse lit,” he said.

The debate over Albania is more nuanced, as countries other than France — including the Netherlands and Denmark — are sceptical because of fears about domestic political instability, organised crime and the stalling of some reforms. Albania undertook a painful judicial vetting procedure in the hope of moving towards EU membership.

Albania’s foreign affairs minister, Gent Cakaj, warned that blocking negotiations would diminish the EU’s role in the entire region and “risks undermining reformist forces in the region”. A negative decision would “embolden third actors who have been waiting in the wings for a long time”, he warned.

A further complication has been a division between countries opposed to “decoupling” the cases of North Macedonia and Albania and others prepared to accept a refusal for Tirana as the price of advancing Skopje’s case — a position diplomats said was attracting increasing support.

France, which has historically been sceptical about EU enlargement in general, argues that the accession process needs to be reviewed before admitting new countries, a tension Mr Cakaj dubbed “a false dilemma”.

Paris is not wrong to question the current state of the enlargement process, but it needs to give Skopje a green light, said Gerald Knaus, executive director of the European Stability Initiative, a Berlin-based think-tank focused on south-eastern Europe and enlargement.

He noted that according to the EU’s own assessment, North Macedonia is more prepared for membership than Serbia, which, along with Montenegro, is considered a “frontrunner” for accession. “The current accession process does not work,” he said.

Mr Knaus proposed a Balkan free trade zone modelled on the pre-accession experience of Austria and Sweden. He argued that Paris should consent to open talks with Skopje and then support the creation of a South-east European Economic Area, which would steer the countries towards the common market — without the promise of membership.

French president Emmanuel Macron’s administration faces the perceived political threat that far-right domestic political rivals could use enlargement to push scare stories about Balkan criminal gangs and an influx of Muslims from Albania.

[JPMKD]

I LOVE IT! These hacks in FYROMFROM deserve this.
(Apologies in advance for the rant....)
I find it awesome that they are being cockblocked by those they thought would help. Stupid fools. All those years wasted, honestly, the death blow was the Interim Accord. Once they gave up symbols, and the flag , it was easy to see they would sell their culture and heritage.
And those jokers blame the diaspora??? Hell, we have been utterly embarrassed and shamed by these dumbasses in FYRONFROM.
I recently watched a video of me talking about Macedonia and explaining the situation to people in 1992.....such hope. LOL. I hope they either rebel or call for a new vote or get some leaders with real pride and the interest of our heritage and people.
I hope what I have seem from 1992 to now isn't the future. If it is, lets just say fuck it and do the federation with Albania. I even have a name for it. The Central Balkan Republic (Yes, I know where that's from, but hell, it would fit if they federate...)
So dejected and pissed. And to top it off I am just getting into another of Vic's books (get some, they are good!) and I see the final word from France, etc on here. It's kinda hard to press on. I saw in another thread monuments being defaced....I agree likely the government to help with "friendly relations" Sad to see people in Hong Kong standing up to authority from a superpower but the "Macedonians" can't even stand up to their own backward assed sellout leaders. (Who might actually acquiesce if it seems in their best person interests)OK selfish rant over! Pozdrav!
I'm going to go jam out on my new copy of that classic song: Severne Makidonska Devoiche

[Carlin]

Is it a coincidence? The fact that France is the biggest opponent to N. Macedonia's accession into the EU and the fact that Greece has recently spent over 3 Billion Euros purchasing tanks, planes, and vessels from France?

Whatever the case might be France has essentially Vetoed Macedonia today.

Do you recall the old song "Od vrv Pirin planina"?

[Gocka]

Failed experiment. Its hard enough keeping a single country unified and functioning with a relatively homogeneous populace. Who really believed that you can take 740 million people, countless religions, cultures, languages, histories, interests, and everything else under the sun, and push them all towards a centralized government and a common identity.

It roughly sounds like the USA, but with some big differences. People leave their homelands to go become Americans. No one wants to leave behind their family and their home, they only do so out of necessity. Because of that people are basically buying into the American system as soon as they enter it, and they are aware of that. The European experiment expects people to change their homelands and their cultures. A very different proposition. When you go to the USA you take with you the parts of your culture that you were fond of but you mostly leave your home behind. In Europe you are basically trying to destroy or at least re-brand everything that was and still is and pretend as if it never was. You are asking people to forget what they have always known, to ignore what is all around them, and just be something totally new. Its just unnatural in my opinion. Besides the USA still has 50 states with very localized governance and yes even cultures. I'm sure if you tried to impose a Californian system on every state, there would be a civil war.

I just don't understand how anyone can seriously believe that the European experiment can ever come to full fruition. Its fake, its forced, it constantly hangs by a thread. What is even harder to understand is how people in the Balkans keep believing that the EU experiment has or will improve their homelands. They had the right idea with trade policies and more lax travel regimes but this idea of making everyone "Europeans", is down right stupid and will never happen.

As far as FYRONMABCEDFHIJK......, I've never seen a group of people follow a carrot for so long and still not realize that its attached to a string. Its painful to watch.

[Niko777]

Is it a coincidence? The fact that France is the biggest opponent to N. Macedonia's accession into the EU and the fact that Greece has recently spent over 3 Billion Euros purchasing tanks, planes, and vessels from France?

[Carlin]

Macron Seeks to Slow EU Expansion in Blow to Balkan Aspirations

October 13, 2019, 8:14 AM EDT

URL:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-13/macron-seeks-to-slow-eu-expansion-in-blow-to-balkan-aspirations

- France resists accession talks with Albania, North Macedonia
- EU nations remain split ahead of decision due on Tuesday

Balkan hopes of starting accession negotiations with the European Union hang in the balance, as France insists the bloc is not yet ready to discuss the possibility of accepting new members, documents exchanged between diplomatic missions in Brussels show.

North Macedonia and Albania are keen for a green light this week to start formal talks to join the world’s largest trading club. While most member states back their request, France and the Netherlands want a complete overhaul of the enlargement process before negotiations with the two countries can begin.

Paris wants any further talks to be “more gradual, more concrete in the benefits they bring to concerned countries and reversible according to the effective, tangible and sustainable implementation of reforms,” a draft communique of a ministerial meeting in Luxembourg showed. The memo was circulated on Oct. 10 by French diplomats to other EU governments.

No date for formal negotiations should be given to Albania and North Macedonia before the EU completes this overhaul of its “methodology,” it said.

Expansion proponents argue that the prospect of EU membership will help further anchor the troubled region to the West, while failure to set a date for the start of formal negotiations risks weakening reformist forces in Albania and North Macedonia.

But western EU officials exasperated by the failure of eastern nations that joined in 2004 and 2007 to uphold the rule of law and fight corruption are wary of admitting new members.

At Loggerheads

Countries including Poland, Hungary and Romania -- among the largest recipients of EU structural funds and agricultural aid -- are at loggerheads with the European Commission over their democratic standards, and the bloc’s executive arm has so far failed to force them to fall in line.

At France’s insistence, the EU said in its June communique on the topic of enlargement that admission of new members should take into account the bloc’s “capacity to integrate” them.

France and the Netherlands aren’t alone in their skepticism. Adding to the complications, countries such as Greece and Bulgaria cite bilateral issues that first need to be resolved, while others seek conditions attached to any positive nod, especially for Albania.

EU ambassadors will make a last-ditch effort to broker a compromise on Monday before ministers meet in Luxembourg on Tuesday, where a decision is due to be taken. EU leaders must sign off when they meet in Brussels on Thursday.

The latest draft of the decision, dated Oct. 11 and seen by Bloomberg, gives a green light for formal accession negotiations to start in the first half of next year, but “no one is happy” with the wording, according to one diplomat familiar with the deliberations.

[Risto the Great]

The only way any of this changes is if the dream of EU prosperity comes crashing down. Then there will be a brief moment of opportunity to turn people towards nationalism. As long as the EU is on the table and people are convinced that it will solve all their problems, no one is in any hurry to do anything that can be perceived as jeopardizing EU entry.

Because Bulgaria and Greece in the EU are forging ahead and living large now? What on Earth will improve for them in the EU? Maybe they can work elsewhere I guess. But the Macedonian whores are already doing that without the EU. It's a nation of whores, perhaps more energy can be devoted to that!

[Gocka]

I also wouldn't get my hopes up. Probably less than a thousand people and they will all get mocked and ridiculed by most of their friends and family.

The only way any of this changes is if the dream of EU prosperity comes crashing down. Then there will be a brief moment of opportunity to turn people towards nationalism. As long as the EU is on the table and people are convinced that it will solve all their problems, no one is in any hurry to do anything that can be perceived as jeopardizing EU entry.

I just wonder how long the EU can keep stringing them along before people give up on the idea. We are already heading on 20 years. What do you guys figure another 200 or so years?

[Momce Makedonce]

It's great to see the passion and the right national symbols on display but, if my estimate is correct, those marching were barely 2,000 people. That number needs to be multiplied a hundred fold (at least) to make any kind of impact. I hate to be the guy that puts a negative spin on things but, the fact is, Zaev & Co. will just dismiss this as the actions of a few insane fanatics that want to keep North Macedonia off the path to European integration and, consequently, economic progress. As soon as they mention that, the rest of the Northie turncoats will turn on the few loyal Macedonians who are prepared to raise therir voice for what is right. Actually, I'd be surprised if they haven't turned on them already. I really hope I'm wrong and that the Northie turncoats are in the minority but somehow I don't think that's the case, otherwise many thousands more would have been marching shoulder to shoulder with these true Macedonian patriots.

I would have to agree with you Karposh. Even though I like the fact that this particular protest only had the original Macedonian sun displayed, the number of protesters is nowhere near what it should be.

It really is a sad state of affairs, when I was in Macedonia recently, Macedonians from all over Macedonia in their thousands descended on Prilep to see Ceca perform. People looked at me in utterly confused and shocked faces thinking I was crazy when I told them that not only did I not go to see her perform, but I also don't know a single one of her songs.

Meanwhile we have at most a few thousand true Macedonians standing up for their very identity, good to see that majority of Macedonians have their priorities in the right place!

[Karposh]

Protest in Macedonia last night, only the original flag and no ventilators in sight! Perhaps banning the flag has made people love it that bit more, been seeing lots of it spray painted on walls, basketball courts e.t.c in resistance to the new measures.

https://www.facebook.com/513139259/p...504260?sfns=mo

It's great to see the passion and the right national symbols on display but, if my estimate is correct, those marching were barely 2,000 people. That number needs to be multiplied a hundred fold (at least) to make any kind of impact. I hate to be the guy that puts a negative spin on things but, the fact is, Zaev & Co. will just dismiss this as the actions of a few insane fanatics that want to keep North Macedonia off the path to European integration and, consequently, economic progress. As soon as they mention that, the rest of the Northie turncoats will turn on the few loyal Macedonians who are prepared to raise therir voice for what is right. Actually, I'd be surprised if they haven't turned on them already. I really hope I'm wrong and that the Northie turncoats are in the minority but somehow I don't think that's the case, otherwise many thousands more would have been marching shoulder to shoulder with these true Macedonian patriots.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Protest in Macedonia last night, only the original flag and no ventilators in sight! Perhaps banning the flag has made people love it that bit more, been seeing lots of it spray painted on walls, basketball courts e.t.c in resistance to the new measures.

https://www.facebook.com/513139259/p...504260?sfns=mo

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