The savior no one is talking about

[vicsinad]

Vic, I would like to read more about this. Any useful links?
BTW, I'm quite partial to Chipotle in the USA, so not everything is bad over there lol

Risto:

No problem. I have a bunch of documents scattered on my computer. But I'll e-mail you 3 pdfs I can find quickly. The first quotes are from an April 1992 CIA secret file released in 2013. It called for UN peacekeeping troops in Macedonia and other Balkan countries.

There is a serious danger of military conflict spilling over Yugoslavia's borders. This expansion could erupt with little or no additional warning:
- There is a high likelihood of military clashes between the ethnic
Albanian majority in Kosovo and Serbian forces; this would prompt
Albanian involvement.
" There is some chance that Macedonia's drive for independence will cause Serbia, Bulgaria, and Albania to reassert historical territorial claims and lead to clashes with Greece.
" There is only a slight chance of war between Hungary and Serbia over
the ethnic Hungarians in Vojvodina, but renewed Croat-Serb fighting
could prompt border incidents.

At least four independent states are emerging from the ruins of Yugoslavia: are relatively stable Slovenia; a war-torn, embittered Croatia; an enlarged but weakened and isolated Serbia; and a separate Macedonia, threatened by economic weakness and Serbian, Greek, Bulgarian and Albanian neighbors.

Greece is increasingly agitated about Skopje's presumed
threat to Greek Macedonia. Greek rhetoric,
demonstrations, troop movements to the border, and
harassment of cross-border trade have heightened
tensions and invite overreactions by Macedonians.

Conflict between Serbia and Bulgaria, which have historical claims on parts of Macedonia and are openly competing for influence of Skopje, is also possible but less likely...Bulgaria's resolve to stay out of a conflict would weaken quickly, if Serbia reasserts its territorial claims or forcibly incorporates parts of Macedonia.

Serbia and Greece are likely to pursue their common interests against Macedonia and Albania.

Here's a quote from the second PDF, a June 1993 CIA report released in 2011.

Macedonia's military is little more than a police force. Almost completely disarmed when federal forces withdrew in 1992, the Macedonian armed fores would have trouble coping with internal ethnic unrest and could not oppose Yugoslav cross-border operations.

Here's quotes from a CIA report from December of 1992, released in October of 2013:

Macedonia, by contrast, is perceived by all but Greece and
Serbia to be a separate, albeit as-yet unrecognized state. Any
Serbian use of force against Macedonia would be a clear case of
aggression. The greatest danger to Macedonia, however, comes from
within.

-- The removal of President Gligorov almost certainly
would lead to polarization between the extreme
Macedonian nationalists and the republic's one-third
ethnic Albanian population.

-- Gligorov's continued survival in power, however,
appears to be due less to his government's actual
authority than to the lack of a well-organized
opposition. This power vacuum is extremely dangerous
for a state riddled with ethnic tensions and
surrounded by neighbors that are at best ambivalent
(Bulgaria and Albania)--or at worst hostile (Serbia
and Greece)--to Macedonia's continued independence.

The situation is beginning to appear reminiscent of
the Izetbegovic government in Bosnia just before the
outbreak of fighting there. However, the deployment
of a UN peacekeeping battalion to Macedonia--now being
arranged--could hel to avert intervention from Serbia
or Greece.

It was these and other US reports and intelligence that made the push for a UN peacekeeping force in Macedonia.


I will also say that while the US wasn't right about everything (1/3 Albanian minority), these CIA reports were for the most part pretty accurate in their understanding, observation and analysis of the situation.

[vicsinad]

This one explains and summarizes well. It's taken from the article:

Paquin, Jonathan, Managing Controversy: U.S. Stability Seeking and the Birth of the Macedonian State (2008), Pg. 447

https://www.scribd.com/document/103166507/j-1743-8594-2008-00079-x

First, the White House consented to send U.S. troops to the Macedonian republic as a substitute for diplomatic recognition in order to reinforce Macedonia’s security. As Richard Holbrooke points out: ‘‘The situation was so explosive that the United States made its only exception to the policy of not sending troops to the region […] in order to prevent the war in Bosnia from spreading to the south and igniting a general Balkan conflict’’ (Holbrooke 1999:122). This decision came after the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) had warned the White House that a Serbian attack on Macedonia was imminent and that this conflict could consume the region (Phillips 2004:60). In May of 1993, 300 U.S. soldiers joined the United Nations Protection Force (UNPROFOR) for Macedonia, which already numbered 700 UN troops.7 The deployment of these troops along the Macedonian border with Serbia gives a clear indication of the importance that the United States gave to the stability of the republic, especially given that the government of Skopje had not formulated demands for any U.S. protection force. This decision was part of the U.S. containment strategy, which attempted to build a cordon sanitaire around Serbia to prevent Milosevic’s regime from committing further aggressions.

Here are quotes from other documents. This is from an October 1990 CIA report:

Nationalist conflict in Yugoslavia is exacerbated by
the recent spectacular growth of Macedonian nationalism.
This has been in response generally to the
disintegration of the federation, but more specifically
to perceived Serbian threats to Macedonia's own
integrity. Macedonian nationalism has now assumed a
transnational dimension in attempting to appeal to
claimed fellow-nationals in Greece and Bulgaria.
Since Serbs, Greeks, and Bulgarians reject the notion
of a separate Macedonian nationhood, the potential
- for an international crisis is manifest.

Macedonians constitute 5.9 percent or 1.4 million
people ... orthodox Christian .. .strong ethnic identity,
but some cultural ties toboth Bulgarians and
Serbians ... traditionally a strong commercial tradition
... longstanding bone of contention between
Serbs and Bulgarians.

From a March 1993 CIA report:

A serious tightening of sanctions would put more
pressure on Serbian President Milosevic, but also would
probably radicalize Serbian public opinion and increase
the influence of ultranationalists. There also would be
a need for markedly higher assistance to front line
states such as Macedonia, Romania, and Bulgaria to gain
their cooperation.

From a February 1993 CIA report:

Financial Aid to Macedonia. Serbia would view such
assistance as a continued effort by.the international community
to isolate it; Belgrade might step up efforts to support
dissension by Macedonian Serbs. Belgrade would also try to
ensure continued Macedonian economic dependence on Serbia.

Russia would probably support the beginning of US aid to
Macedonia.' Moscow has warned for some time that Macedonia is a
powderkeg, and it would welcome any efforts to stabilize the
situation.

Belgrade also would increase
pressure on neighboring states, particularly Macedonia, to flaunt
the sanctions.

Establish/Increase International Presence in .Macedonia .nd
-Albania.), Albania and Macedonia would welcome further moves ir
tpis direction as tangible signs of Western commitment to their
stability and defens9. Croatia and the Bosnian Government would
favor such indirect pressure on Serbia. Bulgaria also would
welcome greater international presence as a means to revent the
spread of the conflict and Macedonia's collapse.
The West Europeans support this. They are concerned, however,
that the military and financial burden be evenly distributed and
would look to the US to supply at least financial support.
Greece would support a UN presence in Albania or Macedonia but
would seek assrances that current borders would be maintained.

[Phoenix]

Nope not leaving it at that.



Brother, that is a myth that Macedonians perpetuate to make themselves feel better about losing. There is no verifiable proof that Macedonian security forces were ever stopped or impeded, neither physically nor otherwise.

The sad reality is that the Macedonian government got caught with its pants down and didn't have a leg to stand on come negotiation time. They couldn't fight on without a long drawn out conflict and heavy losses. Once they decided not to fight they had 0 bargaining power. The OFA was not a western forced conspiracy to keep Macedonia down, it was the result of inept Macedonian leaders who backed themselves into a corner.

Also why would we expect the USA to help Macedonia? We constantly harp on about American interventionism, so why would we be upset if the USA did nothing to impeded the terrorists? Mind you they intercepted weapons shipments from them which is not nothing, but overall why would we expect their help?

Its not about defending the US, at all. Do you not see that its about not letting Macedonian politicians get away with murder. By perpetuating these lies, we give a free pass to the real culprits.

The Macedonian army is even more ill equipped today to deal with a similar threat than it was then. That is why you don't perpetuate lies, because it gets in the way of actually solving the real problems. If the same thing were to happen tomorrow, the same result would follow, because we have done nothing as a country to protect ourselves. So tomorrow, whose fault is it going to be, Macedonia or the USA?

If 900,000 Macedonians come out and vote for the referendum on the 30th, whose fault is it going to be? Let me guess, the USA because they may or may not have helped Zaev come to power? Will we ignore the fact that the entire Macedonian parliament, judiciary, opposition party, and the 900,000 Macedonian voters all acted on their own free will? 2001 was no different, you had failure after failure around the table in Macedonia, but we can't get off this ridiculous conspiracy that it was the USA.

How long are we going to absolve the Macedonian people and the Macedonian leadership from the responsibility of defending their own nation?

Gocka, I don't know how old you were in 2001, nor how actively you followed developments in Macedonia at that time but to blame the Macedonian's totally and absolve the US of all responsibility is simply naive.

Macedonia was under an arms embargo at the time, neighbouring countries were enforcing no fly zones to thwart military shipments from the Ukraine, NATO was constantly making statements that Macedonia could only react in a proportional manner against any terrorist threat. Macedonian security forces were essentially pressured into fighting with their hands tied behind their back...and blindfolded.

Then there was the duplicitous involvement of the US military contractor MPRI, who worked for both sides in the conflict (fancy that)...and finally, the greatest kick in the nuts was delivered by the US/NATO when they provided safe passage for the trapped/doomed terrorists in Aracinovo - that act alone, showed which side of the fence the US sat/sits on.
Do you see the strategy of that Gocka...in simple terms, it was - live to fight another day.
In the golden age of proxy wars, the shiptari serve this sole purpose for the US containment of Russian influence in the last two dominoes of SE Europe/Balkans...under no circumstances imaginable was Macedonia (or Serbia) to be free of the shiptar curse/threat that to this day acts as the proverbial albatross around our (and Serbia) neck.

I'm no way as critical of Macedonia's security forces as you are, I strongly believe we had/have loyal and brave warriors to defend the homeland until death and I certainly don't want or expect US help...I would much prefer that the American's just kept their noses out of it but we (in the rest of the world) know that the US won't do that.

[Big Bad Sven]

Look we can (rightfully) blame the corrupt and useless Macedonian politicians and the useless and not caring Macedonian population at that time in history – but I think its poor form to make the Macedonian army look like fools and not be able to beat the shiptar terrorists.

Remember this, the USA actually respected the Macedonian special forces and wanted them to assist in Afghanistan and Iraq. Remember that the Macedonia army was doing quite well in combating the shiptars. Even with a population that was either too cowardly or didn’t care, and politicians that where working in the background to screw the country over – the Macedonian army and special forces where doing admirably in this ‘civil war’ and had the shiptars contained. Could they have won the war? We will never know but I personally think they could have smashed the shiptar terrorists if there was no outside intervention.
Which brings me to the next point – I do remember the Macedonian special forces surrounding the terrorists in Archinovo only to let them escape because of Western assistance and I do remember citizens throwing rocks and bottles at these western busses escorting citizens to safety. This is something I will never forget and believe is the main point in history that completely wiped out the Macedonian spirit in all Macedonians (in the republic anyway).

I also haven’t forgotten that during this time the western media (especially CNN and BBC) where very anti Macedonians and very sympathetic to the shiptars. Macedonians where seen just as almost as evil as serbs and almost committing war crimes and ethnic cleansing towards Albanians. Strange how there was never any heat put on Albanians or seeing them exposed for their crimes.

And we need to ask, who supplied the Albanians? How did these arms get into Macedonia? If the USA really wanted the war to end and why didn’t they stop these arms going into the hands of terrorists?
And finally, what about the failed referendum? In was rather clever by the USA to recognize Macedonia a day before the referendum, helping in the celebrations of this ‘victory’ in Macedonia.

I am not pro USA or pro Russian, and call me a conspiracy nut job all you want – but I strongly believe since 2001 there has been a heavy American influence in Macedonian politics and society. Call it maybe social engineering, but either way you cant deny a lot of macedonia’s direction is influence by America in the background.

PS – I am not saying Macedonians are slaves and have no choice in their future. On the contrary they have all the power in the world. But they are too weak and useless to make the hard decisions and bed over backwards to everyone stronger who makes the big calls (Serbia in the past, USA/EU today).

[Pelagonija]

Don't forget about the fact that the CIA (a US agency, by the way)warned of an imminent Serbian threat of invasion into Macedonia.

It was the US and its intelligence findings that helped convinced the UN of the need for troops to get into Macedonia.

I didn't distort any facts: US troops were in Macedonia protecting against Serbian aggression.

Vic are we talking about the same peace loving CIA who couldn’t find WMD in Iraq? the same CIA who installed Saddam in Iraq? the same CIA who trained and armed UCK, ISIS or whatever they are called to name a few?


Whilst I agree the Macedonian leadership is incompetent, that doesn’t change the fact that the USA has been and is detrimental to our existence hence anti Macedonian..

Seriously Serbia had two fronts in Croatia and Bosnia and a third in the making, yet faggy cia decided to act morally? Logical? Fark no?

Sorry I’m not buying your attempt to paint the us in a positive light. It doesn’t have a soul, and even if they did ‘convince’ the UN it certainly wasn’t out of good will.

[vicsinad]

Which brings me to the next point – I do remember the Macedonian special forces surrounding the terrorists in Archinovo only to let them escape because of Western assistance and I do remember citizens throwing rocks and bottles at these western busses escorting citizens to safety. This is something I will never forget and believe is the main point in history that completely wiped out the Macedonian spirit in all Macedonians (in the republic anyway).

This is Trajkovski's doing. They didn't escape because of Western assistance: they were allowed to escape because of Macedonian politics. The Macedonian politicians wavered back and forth (because of internal differences) on whether they wanted to negotiate peace or to go all-out. The EU saw that Macedonian politicians and certain Albanian politicians wanted to negotiate. So they sent in their negotiators. What do you expect them to do -- advocate for fighting? I'm not talking the US here, I'm talking the EU. The final decision rested with Macedonia's politicians.

I also haven’t forgotten that during this time the western media (especially CNN and BBC) where very anti Macedonians and very sympathetic to the shiptars. Macedonians where seen just as almost as evil as serbs and almost committing war crimes and ethnic cleansing towards Albanians.

This is true. The main media stations generally portrayed Macedonians negatively and Albanians favorably.

And we need to ask, who supplied the Albanians? How did these arms get into Macedonia?

The Albanians in New York, Detroit, and Swtizerland supplied them, (The Albanian Diaspora in the US would raise money, rent planes, and fly the weapons into Albania where they would smuggle them into Kosovo and Macedonia.) The drug/prostitute trade funded the Albanians. And the Albanian Civil War in the mid-late 90s supplied them. There is no evidence that the US supplied them.

As a matter of fact, in the late 1990s, the UN wanted to extend its mission in Macedonia at the border to stop the illegal trade of arms going on between Macedonia, Serbia and Albania. China vetoed that extension and Russia abstained. Thus, arms were allowed to flow freely between those countries almost unchecked.

If the USA really wanted the war to end and why didn’t they stop these arms going into the hands of terrorists?

They did.

And finally, what about the failed referendum? In was rather clever by the USA to recognize Macedonia a day before the referendum, helping in the celebrations of this ‘victory’ in Macedonia.

This is true. Very clever, smart US politics. I don't agree with it, but then again, they didn't force Macedonians to do anything.

I am not pro USA or pro Russian, and call me a conspiracy nut job all you want – but I strongly believe since 2001 there has been a heavy American influence in Macedonian politics and society. Call it maybe social engineering, but either way you cant deny a lot of macedonia’s direction is influence by America in the background.

A lot of Macedonia's direction is influenced by the US, yes. If you invite someone to influence you, they will influence you. Macedonians are inviting this influence, and they have been for a long time.

[vicsinad]

Vic are we talking about the same peace loving CIA who couldn’t find WMD in Iraq? the same CIA who installed Saddam in Iraq? the same CIA who trained and armed UCK, ISIS or whatever they are called to name a few?


Whilst I agree the Macedonian leadership is incompetent, that doesn’t change the fact that the USA has been and is detrimental to our existence hence anti Macedonian..

Seriously Serbia had two fronts in Croatia and Bosnia and a third in the making, yet faggy cia decided to act morally? Logical? Fark no?

Sorry I’m not buying your attempt to paint the us in a positive light. It doesn’t have a soul, and even if they did ‘convince’ the UN it certainly wasn’t out of good will.

Whoever said anything about acting morally? The US deemed it in their interests to help safeguard the Macedonian border.

[vicsinad]

ed.

Then there was the duplicitous involvement of the US military contractor MPRI, who worked for both sides in the conflict (fancy that)

The MPRI supported the KLA against Serbia. Can you provide credible evidence to show that the MPRI was actively supplying and supporting the NLA's fight against the Macedonian army?

...and finally, the greatest kick in the nuts was delivered by the US/NATO when they provided safe passage for the trapped/doomed terrorists in Aracinovo - that act alone, showed which side of the fence the US sat/sits on.

The US supplied safe passage, after Macedonia's president agreed to a cease fire and asked NATO to give safe passage to the terrorists.

[Phoenix]

Whoever said anything about acting morally? The US deemed it in their interests to help safeguard the Macedonian border.

...and how did that end up Vic?

Your answer is nonsense...US interests had nothing to do with safeguarding the Macedonian border...by controlling the border the US could control the flow of terrorists and weaponry from Kosovo into Macedonia and back again...nothing about safeguarding anything, other than their own interests, which were never aligned to Macedonia's interests.

[Phoenix]

The MPRI supported the KLA against Serbia. Can you provide credible evidence to show that the MPRI was actively supplying and supporting the NLA's fight against the Macedonian army?



The US supplied safe passage, after Macedonia's president agreed to a cease fire and asked NATO to give safe passage to the terrorists.

Vic, I sense a disturbing denialism on your behalf.

[vicsinad]

...and how did that end up Vic?

Your answer is nonsense...US interests had nothing to do with safeguarding the Macedonian border...by controlling the border the US could control the flow of terrorists and weaponry from Kosovo into Macedonia and back again...nothing about safeguarding anything, other than their own interests, which were never aligned to Macedonia's interests.

Yes, US did control the flow of terrorists and weapons from Kosovo into Macedonia. They mitigated the flow; they slowed the flow. I've provided support for that statement. Please show some evidence that the US did the opposite, if you're making that case. While you're at it, perhaps blame Russia and China for abstaining and vetoing the UN peacekeeping force in Macedonia in February of 1999, which allowed the arms to really start flowing in from Kosovo and vice versa. (You can likely thank Macedonia for recognizing Taiwan, which pissed off China and then decided to retaliate...but let me guess, innocent China would have no idea that a lack of peacekeepers in Maceodnia would allow arms to flow freely and spur Albanians, right?).

https://reliefweb.int/report/serbia/china-vetoes-extension-un-forces-mandate-macedonia

Qin Huasun, who is China's ambassador to the UN, said in New York on 26 February that Beijing feels that the UN's peacekeeping mission in Macedonia (UNPREDEP) has helped "stabilize" the situation there (see "RFE/RL Newsline," 25 February 1999). But he added that the force is no longer needed and should begin "dismantling" on 1 March. Qin denied that Macedonia's recent recognition of Taiwan had anything to do with China's decision to veto the extension. Some 13 out of 15 Security Council members voted to extend UNPREDEP's mandate by six months, while Russia abstained. Danilo Turk, who is Slovenia's ambassador to the UN and holds a rotating European seat on the Security Council, said that the veto reduces the credibility of the UN and marks a "sad day for the Security Council."

Oh, and my golly, look here: it's the Macedonian officials who considered the end of the UN mission as a punishment, commended the presence of UN (which includes US troops), and wanted them to stay...needed them to stay:

In Skopje, government spokesmen on 26 February charged that Beijing was wrong to try to "punish" Macedonia for recognizing Taiwan. Opposition leaders argued that the government should not have recognized the island state in the first place.

https://www.un.org/press/en/1999/19990225.sc6648.html

The representative of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia said that UNPREDEP was discharging its mandate in an exemplary manner, amid a regional situation that continued to be very difficult, dangerous and unpredictable. The possibility of a new bloody war in the Balkans was a real one. In a word, the United Nations should not abandon the region, or run from trouble; rather, it should prevent it. Extending UNPREDEP's mandate would support regional efforts at peace.

A letter of 19 January (document S/1999/108) from the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to the Secretary- General presents the Government's arguments for extending the mission's mandate for an additional six months, with its existing composition and structure. The Foreign Affairs Minister also points to his concern over the danger of a spillover of the Kosovo conflict, increased tensions on the Albanian-Yugoslav border, the unstable situation in Albania -- which has burdened his Government's efforts to prevent arms trafficking to Kosovo -- and the lack of progress in the demarcation of the country's border with the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

NASTE CALOVSKI (The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) said he wished to underline that UNPREDEP was discharging its mandate successfully and that the cooperation with his country and other international organizations was an exemplary one. The situation in his region continued to be very difficult, dangerous, unpredictable and a serious threat to the peace and security of the Balkans. The possibility of a new bloody war in the Balkans should be considered a real one. Unacceptable options of violence, the use of force and achieving something by military means were still there. The forces of peace, particularly in Kosovo, were weak. It was of paramount importance that they be strengthened. In one word, the United Nations should not abandon the region, should not run from troubles, and should prevent the occurrence of the worst. Extension of UNPREDEP's mandate should be seen as an important support to the region's peace forces. He said that the prevention of new war in the Balkans was of utmost urgency and a very serious obligation of the Council under the Charter of the Organization, in particular under Article 24, where it was requested to act on behalf of the Member States of the United Nations, many who fully supported the extension of the mandate of the first successful preventive peace-keeping mission of the Organization.

Oh, and those "caring" Russians abstained because the language on stopping illegal arms going to Kosovo was not strong enough, but not so much about arms going from Kosovo to Macedonia. So, great solution Russia: the UN won't go all-out in stopping the flow of arms, so there's no need to even monitor the arms flows or deter possible threats. Hm, maybe it was Russia that wanted to see some violence in Macedonia? No, no. Can't be, Russia's not evil, America is.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1999-02-26/news/9902260112_1_macedonia-qin-huasun-albanian

Russian ambassador Sergei Lavrov abstained because he said the draft did not include amendments emphasizing the need to prevent the smuggling of arms from Macedonia to ethnic Albanian guerrillas in Kosovo.

It was the United States and others who warned that a lack of UN peacekeepers would likely contribute to destabilization in Macedonia:

https://www.un.org/press/en/1999/19990225.sc6648.html

The representative of the United States said that the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia had made enormous strides towards democratization and economic stability, but it still confronted very real security threats. There was a distinct risk that tensions elsewhere in the region would reverberate along the border -- with Kosovo being just the most recent flashpoint.

https://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/190/33325.html

Diplomats said they were disappointed with the vote, citing the still unresolved situation in neighboring Kosovo. The threat of a spillover of violence is high because Macedonia has its own ethnic Albanian minority.

So, how do we sum up this situation?:

1. UN sent a peacekeeping force to Macedonia in the early 1990s to prevent destabilization of Macedonia and a greater Balkan War. US troops were integral to this force. Part of its duties were to monitor and report on the illegal arms flow, as well as to deter violence.

2. From 1992 through 2000, Macedonia was relatively peaceful and stable.

3. In early 1999, China and Russia say "no more peacekeeping in Macedonia" for their own reasons. Most UN nations are disappointed and warn of consequences.

4. Macedonia's leaders still want the UN there. They plead with international troops to stay to help curb the arms flow and to deter violence. They thus look to other international organizations to try to help keep peace and order along their borders. They ask NATO to fill in certain voids.

5. In early 2001, after 2 years of essentially free reign along the borders, Albanians start a terrorist insurgency in Macedonia.

6. From early 2001 through late summer 2001, the US intercepts thousands upon thousands of weapons and ammunition in Kosovo headed to Macedonia, as well as nearly making 500 arrests of terrorists and those transporting arms.

7. From 2001 through 2018, Phoenix, Pelagonija, Karposh and many other Macedonians accuse the US of trying to destroy Macedonia.

These are facts. Either put up some facts of your own, or stop with this nonsense, per your vocabulary.

And yes, US interests had a lot to do with safeguarding the Macedonian border. The US warned that a conflict in Macedonia would cause a greater Balkan war, potentially involving Turkey, Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia. Russia said the same thing. Why would US want that? Why would they want to jeopardize their interests in the Balkans -- their economic and strategic interests -- by supporting a war in Macedonia? What would they have to gain? The satisfactions of seeing hundreds of thousands of people murdered and Macedonia destroyed? Evil Americans.

Kosovo was a separate matter and I think it's important that we separate US interests/goals with supporting the Albanian movement in Kosovo/Serbia and US interests/goals regarding the Albanian movement in Macedonia. While the Albanian movement in Kosovo and Maceodnia is generally acknowledged to be part of the same movement for Greater Albania, the US involvement was completely different for many reasons, as mentioned throughout several posts. Moreover, even the Albanian terrorist movement was not unified across the borders, as most Albanians in Macedonia and most Albanians from Kosovo who fought in Kosovo did not and would not take up arms in Macedonia. The US -- believe it or not -- wanted to prevent more Albanians from taking up arms in a fight in Macedonia.

So, yes, safeguarding Macedonia's borders helped safeguard US interests. I'm not putting any moral judgment on the action. I'm stating a reality.

[vicsinad]

Vic, I sense a disturbing denialism on your behalf.

Phoenix, I sense an incredible inability for you to support any of your claims with documentation/evidence.

[Risto the Great]

Oh dear, do we really want to blame USA for Macedonia? I think the EU is just as much to blame. I think this thread is thrashed. The simple reality is Macedonians are 99% to blame. In order to sit at the table where big people eat, the Macedonians thought (and still think) they needed to acquiesce to a whole bunch of completely absurd conditions that no other nation has had to endure.

I would vote for the new saviour. Why because right now, I would even be willing to vote for this guy:


If the "saviour" gets in because he is fellating a Russian flag but gets down to shifting the balance to a place whereby the superpowers are fighting for influence, it wouldn't be a bad thing.

Saying "Hitler" apparently ends a forum thread. Hitler!

There are more important issues just over 1 month away.

[Bill77]

The above post by RTG will have to be the best and most accurate post in MTO history.

[Carlin]

Jанко Бачев – Ороводецот кој останува надвор од играта

URL:

https://okno.mk/node/73704

14.09.2018
Љубомир Костовски

Во редовите на политичарите, кои се во центарот на отпорот против претстојниот референдум, најјасно е присуството на лидерот на Единствена Македонија. За него не смее да има евроатлански амбиции на земјава. За опозицијата на референдумот – оние кои се против или најчесто се за бојкот кон Преспанскиот договор – тој е играчот кој треба да биде мотиватор на уличните манифестации, па и нивни инспиратор, но како што се приближува датумот на гласањето – 30 септември, тој станува непријатен актер во играта пред гласачите каде „отпорашите“ треба да се претстават како поддржувачи на првиот дел од од референдумското прашање. Имено, се за влез во НАТО пактот и ЕУ, ама не со ваков договор како Преспанскиот. Затоа се јавуваат и сѐ погласни коментари против него и од опозицијата

Кога во јануари годинава Јанко Бачев реши да ја ребрендира својата партија – Народно движење во Единствена Македонија, тој на свој начин, многумина би рекле на карикатурален, покажа дека е искрен имитатор на она што се случува во земјата кон која се завртени неговите идеолошки копнежи. Имено, партијата на претседателот, кој секогаш победува, Владимир Путин, се вика Единаја Расија и Бачев посакал тоа име да му држи „маја“.

Гледано од некаков формален аспект неговите изборни резултати се ужасни. На избоите во 2014 година партијата на Бачев доби само 1.925 гласа. Најголема поддршка имаше во четворка – 669 гласа, а најмалку во петка 158, па во единица 237. Во неговата екипа тогаш беше и новинарот Саше Политико. Партијата за првпат по своето формирање учествувала самостојно на парламентарните избори во 2002 година, каде што освоила 2.230 гласови (0,1%). На парламентарните избори во 2006, 2008 и 2011 НДМ учествувала во коалиции предводени од ВМРО-ДПМНЕ, додека на парламентарните избори во 2014 година, по 12 години учество во коалиција, повторно настапила самостојно и освоила околу 1.900 гласови (0,1%). Партијата не учествувала на парламентарните избори во 2016 година, поради тоа што Државната изборна комисија ги отфрлила кандидатските листи на партијата. НДМ на ниеден парламентарен изборен циклус нема освоено пратеничко место.

Но, неговата ролја во организирањето на отпор кон политиките на левицата во земјава, пред сѐ кон СДСМ и неговите коалициони партнери не е за занемарување, особено што тој се смета за експонент на проруската политика во земјава, онаа која се преокупира токму со спречување на евроатланските амбиции на земјава.

МАКЕДОНИЈА БОЈКОТИРА

Бачев се стави на чело на кампањата „Македонија бојкотира“ и барем според потписите, тука се 30 политички партии и невладини организации кои застанале зад бојкотот со потпишување на „Меморандум за стратешка соработка“. Тие имаат и свој т.н. Кризен штаб за кампањата. Во кампањата на чие чело е Бачев, учествуваат партии и организации со живописни имиња како Христијанско братство, чиј потписник е Жарко Гроздановски, Аманет 1903 (Дејан Бошков), Тврдокорните (Драган Угриновски), Трета партија на Македонците и здружението Трета Република (двете потпишани од Љупчо Палески), ВМРО-ДПМНЕ-Демократска фракција, предводени од Јове Кекеновски и Филип Петровски, неколку организации на дијаспората и неколку анонимни здруженија. Фактот што Јанко Бачев е на чело на кризниот штаб на „Македонија бојкотира“ направи во дел од медиумите истите да се нарекуваат „рубљови“ (асоцијација на валутата на Русија), односно се смета дека конекциите кон Москва кај него се најверојатни и оттаму тој би можел евентуално да даде најмногу во финансиската поткрепа на бојкотот на референдумот.

За разлика од сите други што ќе го бојкотираат референдумот и кои по правило не нудат друг излез за земјава, Бачев смета дека наш излез е сојуз со Русија и влез во Евроазиската економска унија. Тој страстен противник на правата на малцинските групи, пред сѐ, на Албанците, ги мрази либералните идеи, се противи на подржувањето на хомосексуалноста, истополовите бракови и посвојување на деца од истополови бракови. Се залага за комплетна лустрација, која би ја опфатила и МПЦ.

Во својата промотивна кампања ги вклучи и двајцата високи гости од Москва – Александар Дугин и Леонид Савин, кои една сабота пролетва ја наполнија салата во Хотел „Континентал“, претставувајќи ги како главни Путинови советници за безбедност, податок кој не е сосема точен. Тогаш собра бројна публика, која тој самиот никогаш не ја имал. Се појави и да даде поддршка за дипломатите на Русија кои земјава ги протера неодамна.

ДОКТОР НА ПРАВНИ НАУКИ

Јанко Бачев е роден пред 54 години во Струмица. По завршувањето на Правниот факултет во април 1991 година е ангажиран како адвокатски приправник, па, како адвокатски стручен соработник. Од мај 1994 работи во Службата за државна безбедност при МВР. Бил повеќегодишен предавач во Комората на Република Македонија за обезбедување на лица и имот и детективски услуги и член на Комисијата за полагање на стручен испит за вршење работи на обезбедување на лица и имот. Од 2012 година е професор по меѓународно право на Правниот факултет при Меѓународниот Славјански Универзитет „Гаврило Романович Державин“, каде предава група предмети од областа европско право!

Бачев е доктор на правни науки во областа на меѓународното право, кој докторирал на Катедрата за меѓународно право и меѓународна политика на Правниот факултет „Јустинијан Први„ во Скопје, одбранувајќи ја докторската дисертација на тема: „Правните механизми во Организацијата на Обединетите нации и прашањето околу името на Република Македонија“. Постдипломски магистерски студии завршил на истиот факултет и за таа цел го одбранил магистерскиот труд на тема: „Приемот на Република Македонија во Организацијата на Обединетите нации и меѓународното право“.

КРИВИЧНА ПРИЈАВА

Министерот за внатрешни работи Оливер Спасовски изјави дека против него ќе биде поднесена кривична пријава по неговото качување на борбено возило на полицијата пред Собранието на РМ за време на протести. Тој треба да одговара за спречување на овластено лице во вршење на неговата функција. Не е позната судбината на таа оценка. Овој потег на Спасовски беше поддржан и од страна на лидерот на ВМРО ДПМНЕ, а забележани се и напади во некои медиуми на опозицијата на ликот и делото на овој проруски политичар во земјава. Во мигот тој е повеќе товар за главната опозициона партија околу корисен „уличен разгорувач“ на масите. (Поподробно за неговите ставови може да се прочита овде.)

Извор: Вистиномер