Macedonia and NATO

[Vangelovski]

Don't worry, Ivanov will be meeting with UMD to "balance" things.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Don't worry, Ivanov will be meeting with UMD to "balance" things.

UMD, will be in for a major shock in the not to near future.

[lavce pelagonski]

Greek President, party leaders agree veto for Macedonia at NATO Summit in Chicago

18. May 2012. | 08:11

Source: Emg.rs, MIA

http://www.emg.rs/en/news/region/179666.html

Greece's party leaders and President Karolos Papoulias, at one of their meetings on setting up new government, agreed that Athens must impose veto on Macedonia's accession to NATO at Chicago Summit.

Greece's party leaders and President Karolos Papoulias, at one of their meetings on setting up new government, agreed that Athens must impose veto on Macedonia's accession to NATO at Chicago Summit.

According to transcripts of the meeting, published by Papoulias' Cabinet, Greek party leaders pointed out that Macedonia's accession to NATO was not on the Summit's agenda. However, if there were attempts for raising the issue Greek representatives at the summit should impose a veto.

The discussion on Macedonia at the meeting, held yesterday, was raised by the leader of right-wing Independent Greeks party, Panos Kammenos, who was concerned that at the Chicago Summit his country would be represented by an interim government with limited mandate.

"We wish for even the veto right to be applied for the possibility the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia to join NATO under the name 'Macedonia'," Kammenos said.

PASOK (Greek Socialist) leader Evangelos Venizelos said if the issue came up at the Chicago Summit, Greece should act in line with its national strategy and arguments it had prepared as response to the ruling of The Hague-based International Court of Justice.

"Our arguments should be smarter than those presented in 2008. We should make them stronger in a wiser, more intelligent manner," Venizelos said.

Alexandra Papariga, leader of the Communist Party, considers that Greece should veto a possible discussion on the matter, as 'there is no official Greek government." A discussion on Macedonia in Chicago should and could be prevented in any case, Democratic Left party leader Fotis Kouvelis said.

Alexis Tsipras, leader of the coalition of the radical left (SYRIZA), which came out as second best at the recent elections, said a name with geographic determination was a condition for settling the name dispute.

Conservative Nea Democratia leader Antonis Samaras said veto would be inevitable if the issue on Macedonia's NATO accession was to be raised at Chicago Summit.

The talks for constituting new Greek political or technical government failed, which resulted in setting up a caretaker cabinet, under the helm of Council of State president Panagiotis Pikrammenos, the head of Greece's top administrative court. Petros Molyviatis, who served as a Foreign Minister in Kostas Karamanlis' cabinet, is to take the same office in the caretaker government, whose main objective is organise new early elections.

[The LION will ROAR]

PM: NATO didn't deserve high ranking officials from Macedonia

While Macedonian president was on his way to the NATO Summit in Chicago, PM Gruevski visited multiple locations in China seeking new investors.

In a candid interview for Macedonian media, PM Gruevski opened up admitting NATO did not deserve to have the Macedonian president in Chicago.

- There will be presence on our side, high ranking officials will be present in Chicago. This presence is perhaps over the top considering the current situation, the injustice, the unprofessionalism, the double standards and this strange politics in which the victim needs to show understanding and patience towards a bully who is commiting the injustice and breaks international laws, says Gruevski.



According to the Macedonian Prime Minister, there was absolutely no reason for the president and the Foreign Minister to be in Chicago because Macedonia's request for its membership to be reviewed were ignored from the begining.



- I personally, if I was the president, I would have not gone to Chicago. The same applies to the Foreign Minister. After such a lengthy period of NATO's ignorance towards Macedonia, perhaps attendance of the assistant to the Foreign Minister would have made more sense. By sending such high delegation we are disrespecting ourselves, again.

PM Gruevski admits majority of the NATO members have been very helpful and honest, however in the case of France and Germany who have vested business interests in Greece, in their quest to ensure Athens is happy are helping Greece trip up Macedonia at every opportunity.



- NATO comes knocking every time they need our help, our representation, our flag, our troops. During the Kosovo crisis we allowed NATO to use our country for logistical support, our troops had combat roles in Iraq, we have sent hundreds of soldiers to Afghanistan. Every time NATO needs us, they are here, knocking on our door. Everytime Macedonia has a question/request for NATO within international laws, they are simply ignoring us. We have been in NATO and EU's queue for 10 years. Macedonia simply deserve better than this, says Macedonia's PM.



This will undoubtedly create a fire storm, particularly among Macedonia's intellectuals who for a decade claim Macedonia should under no circumstance enter a two face organization such as NATO who in order to justify their existence are responsible for starting nearly a dozen wars.



One can also see the opposition screaming and kicking that they would have changed the name already and enter both organizations teetering on the edge of an abyss, of course not realizing that Athens would never allow open borders between Macedonia and Greece.

The irony here is that the opposition already changed the name (Fyr Macedonia), and the country is still lucky enough not to be admitted to the coveted bankrupt organizations.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/21047/45/

[Soldier of Macedon]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/05/21/uk-nato-summit-protests-idUKBRE84J02U20120521

At least 45 arrests, some injuries in Chicago anti-NATO clashes

CHICAGO | Mon May 21, 2012 3:57am BST

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Four police officers were injured and 45 demonstrators arrested after baton-wielding police clashed with anti-war protesters marching on the NATO summit in Chicago on Sunday, police said.

A lawyer's group assisting protesters challenged police figures, saying at least 12 protesters were hurt, some with head wounds from police batons, and more than 60 people detained.

The confrontation began after a 2 1/2 mile march from a Chicago park to near the site of the summit, where leaders of the NATO alliance are discussing the war in Afghanistan.

Chicago Police Chief Garry McCarthy defended police tactics.

"I know that picture (of officers in riot gear pushing and hitting protesters) is going to be what people are going to run away here with," McCarthy told reporters. "But cops are not here to be assaulted."

Most of the officers sustained minor injuries, but one was stabbed in the leg, McCarthy said.

While the melee at the end of the rally received the most attention, the situation had calmed down by dark.

The size of the protests over the last week fell short of expectations. Police estimated about 3,000 people attended on Sunday, although many participants thought the crowd was larger. Organizers did not get the 10,000 people they had hoped for, or the 40,000 the anti-Wall Street Occupy movement boasted it would attract.

On Sunday afternoon, police ordered the protesters to disperse or risk arrest. Most of the demonstrators did, but several hundred ignored the order and police moved in.

Hundreds of demonstrators, reporters and photographers were hemmed in by lines of blue-helmeted police, pushing them back with plastic shields.

One young man sat at the side of the street, the back of his head streaming blood. His friends said he was hit by riot police.

"This is what police brutality looks like," said Ryan Zielinski, 23, a protester who said he was hit in the chest with a baton as police pushed protesters back. "All we're trying to do is protest and the police are attacking us."

McCarthy said officers had endured numerous profane taunts and showed restraint. But he said police would not tolerate assaults by black-clad anarchists.

"What we saw is these guys rally their courage and say, 'OK, let's go. That's what we came here for.' And I have to say to myself, what are you thinking?" McCarthy said.

The march included people in festive costumes, a few parents pushing strollers and veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

Demonstrators had little chance of being seen by the world leaders and representatives from 60 countries at the meeting of the military alliance. The summit site, the McCormick Place convention centre, is inside a security zone guarded by high fences. Protesters were kept blocks away.

President Barack Obama, who is hosting the summit in his hometown, convened the summit to chart a path out of the unpopular war in Afghanistan.

The Coalition Against NATO-G8, the group organizing Sunday's march, wants an immediate end to the U.S. role in the Afghan war. Other protesters decried U.S. defence spending and economic inequality.

Matt Howard, a former U.S. Marine who served in Iraq, was one of nearly 50 veterans who threw service medals into the street near the summit site in protest.

Vietnam War veteran Ron McSheffery, 61, said, "I'm in total support of stopping NATO and stopping the slaughter of innocent civilians. If we took the money we spent on bombs and put it into green energy, we wouldn't need to keep the sea lanes open" for oil transport.

Before the summit began, five men were arrested on terrorism-related or bomb-making charges. Three of those charged were plotting to attack Obama's campaign headquarters, police stations and other targets, according to court documents. Defence lawyers said the three were entrapped by police informants.

[George S.]

after all that lobbying & arse kissing & serving in this & afghanistan.Setting an exemplery.I would not want to join nato in a million years.Why lower yourself to the filth.Remember millions of people have died because of un/nato inaction.nato has a blemished record of simply using macedonia for their temporary base.

[Phoenix]

PM: NATO didn't deserve high ranking officials from Macedonia

While Macedonian president was on his way to the NATO Summit in Chicago, PM Gruevski visited multiple locations in China seeking new investors.

In a candid interview for Macedonian media, PM Gruevski opened up admitting NATO did not deserve to have the Macedonian president in Chicago.

- There will be presence on our side, high ranking officials will be present in Chicago. This presence is perhaps over the top considering the current situation, the injustice, the unprofessionalism, the double standards and this strange politics in which the victim needs to show understanding and patience towards a bully who is commiting the injustice and breaks international laws, says Gruevski.

According to the Macedonian Prime Minister, there was absolutely no reason for the president and the Foreign Minister to be in Chicago because Macedonia's request for its membership to be reviewed were ignored from the begining.

- I personally, if I was the president, I would have not gone to Chicago. The same applies to the Foreign Minister. After such a lengthy period of NATO's ignorance towards Macedonia, perhaps attendance of the assistant to the Foreign Minister would have made more sense. By sending such high delegation we are disrespecting ourselves, again.

PM Gruevski admits majority of the NATO members have been very helpful and honest, however in the case of France and Germany who have vested business interests in Greece, in their quest to ensure Athens is happy are helping Greece trip up Macedonia at every opportunity.

NATO comes knocking every time they need our help, our representation, our flag, our troops. During the Kosovo crisis we allowed NATO to use our country for logistical support, our troops had combat roles in Iraq, we have sent hundreds of soldiers to Afghanistan. Every time NATO needs us, they are here, knocking on our door. Everytime Macedonia has a question/request for NATO within international laws, they are simply ignoring us. We have been in NATO and EU's queue for 10 years. Macedonia simply deserve better than this, says Macedonia's PM.

This will undoubtedly create a fire storm, particularly among Macedonia's intellectuals who for a decade claim Macedonia should under no circumstance enter a two face organization such as NATO who in order to justify their existence are responsible for starting nearly a dozen wars.

One can also see the opposition screaming and kicking that they would have changed the name already and enter both organizations teetering on the edge of an abyss, of course not realizing that Athens would never allow open borders between Macedonia and Greece.

The irony here is that the opposition already changed the name (Fyr Macedonia), and the country is still lucky enough not to be admitted to the coveted bankrupt organizations.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/21047/45/

I find these 'macedoniaonline' articles (or opinion pieces) really fuckin' annoying. Those guys are shameless Gruevski arse-kissers.

In this particular piece, we're presented with the feigned surprise of Gruevski at another failed NATO membership bid, as if it had just fallen out of the sky, totally unbeknown to him.

Then they portray Gruevski as if he gave some meaningful degree of fuck and attempt to position him as some resolute and dignified leader who wouldn't have gone to Chicago because NATO didn't respect Macedonia.

The article continues this charade of painting Gruevski something that he falls far short of, meanwhile the author(s) takes his opportunity to give the opposition a good kick in the nuts by bringing up the name issue (again) and their role in that debacle, as if Gruevski has made any effort to quash the issue.

The clowns at 'macedoniaonline' need to remove their lips from Gruevski's arse for long enough that they can focus on the facts that they write about and attribute as 'quotes' from Gruevski.
When talking about Macedonia's contributiions to NATO, the arse kissing folk at 'macedoniaonline' need to understand that Macedonia's involvement in Iraq had nothing to do with NATO operations but rather a willingness to 'assist' America under the guise of some far fetched notion about someones 'Freedom'...

[DedoAleko]

Interview with Gruevski

Google translete:

Interview of Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski Reuters shortly before the NATO Summit in Chicago

Gruevski: Everything that is not an invitation for membership to me is undeserving and unfair


Premier for a few hours begins at the NATO Summit in Chicago. Why not go?
- Because of Macedonia will be invited for admission which under international law, but under all normal human moral norms and principles and achievements deserve. From all sides for months sent us information that we get all the top officials and in the same direction, that the invitation to NATO should not expect.

And if you still get an invitation, would you go?
- Yes, with pleasure.

And who will represent Macedonia at the summit?
- Presence in Chicago will be on our side and very high. Higher than that to me is normal, in some such circumstances, when some countries are doing such injustice, such neprincipielnost and apparent policy of double standard, and above all, both are told that you should feel guilty because , and he understands the one that makes injustice and starring responsibility and dignity. Beware you please not talk about their responsibility and dignity? Because this is no longer just a problem of Macedonia obviously a problem and the Alliance and many more than just formal. This is essentially a problem of political, moral and international legal nature, in terms of rule of law, and NATO has no answer for this. Hence not only the issue of Macedonia and Greece, but he's also a question of NATO.

And when I talk about being in Chicago, consciously say attendance, not participation. Summit is the Summit of the Member States, we only candidate who is required when using it, and when we need NATO, get lessons and policy relevance of the principle of solidarity and consensus, in the sense that politics has Justice when it comes to the relationship of more powerful to less powerful. Then we need to have a sense of guilt that we did not know or understand that it is politics, not justice or injustice is reality or interests. This is a classic twisting of the essence and the basic purpose of politics, I think, and it is to create value, not just at any price to safeguard the material interests. And what else? That injustice should not be a normal thing in our moral values and disrespect for international law by the more powerful thing called political reality. And you should learn to be disenfranchised because we are smaller and less powerful.

Instead we are angry, they we are angry why be angry at the injustice that comes from great powers.

However, Foreign Minister will be in Chicago?
- The Minister and the President and Ambassador to NATO and a bunch of people with them. I personally was the site of the President would not go, and I'm not sure if the minister had to be there in terms of such an ignorance of NATO in the passing of time, perhaps his deputy would have been our real presence versus the apparent indifference of the most powerful countries NATO to Macedonia, and their apparent interest at any cost to be of service to Greece, taking cargo, if they feel a burden on extremely unprincipled and unfair behavior towards the country whose members harassing the years, and always invited when they need, whether it is in moments when they need logistical base as the intervention in 1999 to Serbia, or supposed to be in Afghanistan, Iraq and other events where they need allies need our military, our presence, our flag, our determination.

And imagine now a blatant example of this twisting of which you speak. I do not know the person we are addressing some representatives of some leading members of NATO or the person who gossip Mon couloirs that we missed a chance to Papandreou and similar diplomatic phrases, believe me because they are extremely rogue comes nausea when I hear. Such hypocrisy, such a policy of double standards, such neprincipielnost and away from the values for which the public advocate, long as a precedent to have noticed, as in the case of Macedonia, as a cover to get the verdict of International Court of Justice Hague unambiguous our favor. I know that some politicians and diplomats are not being as unprincipled act, because they think they are strong enough to do it and nobody nothing they could, but there is one rule that whenever a continuous unprincipled concerns, over time all its allies, friends and associates will lose faith in him.

And when I say this, I realize that applies to everyone, because in many NATO countries, politicians and diplomats openly, honestly and clearly, even some of them very publicly support and speak honestly and principled. When you really need and we deserve to know criticize, but always sticking to principles versus bare interest. And here I would like to thank from the heart of all our true friends who support us and fight for us against all challenges. I know this my thesis may be out of context, and some try to manipulate it for narrow interests, but I am what I am saying to speak honestly and with lifted head, because it is my country, my people, for their perspective, and there is no intention to tacit anyone.

What do you do at that point until the NATO summit?
- These days I am in Macedonia, after returning from China where we had, besides the visit of Prime Minister of China, and five-day presentation in five different cities, the possibilities for making investments in Macedonia to approximately 500 companies. Fight. For each friend, each investor for every citizen with the whole heart, do maximum to acquire better and more prosperous future for our citizens and their descendants.

Pretty soon I will work to solve some other problems of citizens who have at least the slightest hope that at least partially succeed. Towards the middle of next week in two days will be in Turin, Milan and Rome, where we will have four presentations to various groups of investors, and visit the Vatican, with reception from Pope and Prime Minister of the Vatican, within the celebration of the work and character Saints St. educators. Cyril and Methodius.

I know that in Chicago there is no hope to change the agenda in my presence, therefore dedicate something where there is hope to attract a company in Macedonia to open their capacity to employ our unemployed citizens.

As for lobbying in NATO, as we did in the previous 7-8 months, along with ministers and the president, has knocked the door where it will not address that are not addressed, virtually all Member States visited, and our conscience is clean, did everything in our power, we gave up.

What is your opinion the main culprit for the situation we are in?
- The main culprit for our Sun entering NATO has its own name, and called Greece. Clearly it is a country in the last two decades with all the forces hindering our development and progress, making enormous resources it consumes enormous political credit, and asked us to use primarily in the internal political purposes and populist propaganda. With a single purpose, to change the name of the state, the name of our people, the name of our language and our overall identity. While people deceive oneself in Greece showing muscles to us, zagorchuvanje the future of two million people in front of people, and then the neighbors, here are the eyes of the world see it done behind the scenes, and in any situation brought their country.

But now they say that there is a chance to argue for a better conclusion of this Summit ...
- For me only an invitation for membership can be a good or a better conclusion as you say. Everything else is throwing dust in the eyes. And therefore I want to disclose that all other speculation regarding certain formulations in the conclusions, or commas, or battles for the formulation are completely outside of what is reality and result of this Summit. And that Macedonia is not an invitation for membership. And there is not anything in between, not two spaces more or less, or have no invitation. It is not an invitation for membership to me is undeserving and unfair.

Hence, whatever draw a different conclusion in Chicago may not be nearly as replacement for the invitation. Conclusions are diplomatic game without boundaries. Finally overcomes interest and strength. It is small consolation to the great powers when obespravuvaat smaller. Give some conclusion as hope, as a means of controlling the deep frustration caused by injustice. And if I would not change anything from the formulation in Bucharest, here even keep the old conclusion from Bucharest, and to devise new, with any kind of phrases does not mean anything, at least until one or at most two to three countries NATO member, the most powerful ones, do not resolve and determination not to oppose the policy of Greece characteristic of the 19th century, and the opposite of everything speak, proclaim and declare the most important, most powerful and key members of NATO. Therefore I say that whatever the conclusion, but an invitation for membership, not by anything real to change the situation. So then we need here to rejoice with weeks to debate the decision, and eventually conclude that America, Germany, France and others are great friends, and we are very happy, and still feel about borrowers.

Think that we do not?
- There is the issue of friendship and good intentions, unfortunately this is a matter of interest and a classic demonstration of force. Unfortunately in international politics at this time seems to have no friends, or how it comes to losing importance, obviously there are only interests.

You mean these countries did not consider them our friends?
- If you insist on the word friends will accept in the spirit will answer. We consider our friends, yet they are more friends to Greece. So any in the past 21 years and 21 years since Greece manages to be harassed to the limits without facing serious consequences. If it was vice versa, for example, Greece committed a fulfillment of a decision of an international court to America, Germany or France would face sanctions by the Security Council. Or if we do not execute a decision in favor of Greece, it will not happen.
Well see what happens in the EU, there is simply begging January Greece not come from the eurozone.

Consider that international law is implemented selectively?
- Absolutely. There are many concrete examples of this, but ours is one of the most striking. I deeply believe in and I'm sure Barack Obama himself deep inside is aware of the injustice that Greece does to us, and certainly surprising in its policy, but obviously at this point there are other reasons why this could not say. See, he is a man of flesh and blood, and he has a conscience, and reason and emotion. Many people throughout everyday life relate different from what you believe in yourself, for some reason or other interests in a given moment.

But several representatives of NATO countries made it clear that admission to NATO requires consensus, and that the rules of NATO that each country can block the reception of another country ....

I would have accepted such an argument if NATO countries put the admission of Macedonia as a point on the agenda of NATO summit, and Greece out of purity, it must be the second time, and after the verdict in the Hague, to breach international law and not to block a veto. To use the veto, or as stated in the couloirs to use a second time on our political atomic bomb. Then, NATO would have no guilt, no nepricipielnost. But it will not happen.

But, you know that NATO rules the principle of solidarity?
- Nowhere in the documents of NATO stated that countries should be solidarity with a member state if it violates international law if the injustice inflicted on another country. It is solidarity. The word solidarity is used for other issues. For example, if a country is attacked from outside, then all are included in its defense. And see you do not want this to seem like I hold lectures on the great powers or to sound pathetic. Sun I owe before his people to tell the truth. And the truth is literally like this.

Well, that interests concerned in the case of Greece?
- We have a lot of votes in Diaspora in another state, to finance the campaigns of Greek billionaires, huge supplies of weapons, relations within the EU where everyone can block everyone for everything, or support for everything, the list is long.

Then how should we proceed?
- We will continue to treat principle and many more European than some EU member states. We not only will not stop the reforms, which primarily important for ourselves and our nation, but will continue in active discussions to seek a solution, and of course in such a setting will forward our historic chance. And you use it. As our ancestors have worked tirelessly to achieve their ideals, constantly and patiently, and used historical chance, in 1944, or as this generation seize the historic opportunity in 1991 to 8 September to create an independent state. However, these historical chance would be no chance at all if previously Macedonian commanders, determine, partisans komiti, peasants, farmers, their military and political officials have not fought a continuous battle for his ideal.

Are you still willing to compromise to resolve the name issue?
- Absolutely. And I will continue to work on it with full force.

Domestic critics charge that you are not attentive to the Greeks and the setting of some monuments, names of roads and airports are irritated ...

Of such injustice and harm done Greece we do not know if anyone can ever use the word irritation. If we are irritated, then what word I can use them for what they are making. It is completely twisting theses. And I do not know if anyone expected to laugh, to rejoice and welcome their steps? Dont think that you are irritated, until they make us what we do. No more irritation than 20 years of blocking, stopping, denying, belittling, making huge financial losses and the people of this country, even tension. It actually is not irritation but crime against a people and a country. Until upon us do this crime, do not expect us to think if something annoys you on a daily basis. What you cited irritation is nothing compared to the terror by Greece to Macedonia before the eyes of the whole democratic world. What we seek is only justice to get what we deserve. Neither have any pretensions, nor anything bad to anyone we wish, we would like stability, prosperity and EU and NATO.

What is the role of the Macedonian opposition in all this?
- I do not want and do not intend to be traded jabs ever the Macedonian opposition. This question is prevazhno, is a strategic issue of its foreign policy, which means not only prosperity, but also stability and predictability of processes important for my fellow citizens, and there's nothing to argue and try to get some petty political point . I look at the charges of the opposition, I understand that you have something to criticize, but the important thing is that they specifically Crvenkovski, deep down they know where the problem lies, and that we do best. So who wants Prime Minister in his time his country to join the EU and NATO and to stand shoulder to shoulder with the greatest force. No one, not least among us. And because their accusations put in the drawer titled "Criticism for criticism." Really no need to hassle with the opposition on this subject, when all is clear. Those 15 years trying to find a solution to the dispute with Greece and failed, we argued that the time works for us, trying thereby to lift the blame from themselves, so we see that the time never worked for us. But now we have a reality in such a reality, instead of witch hunt, the best and most useful to citizens if the compressed our ranks and continue together on the path of reform. So when someone asks which is the alternative of Macedonia after Chicago, the answer is one - Reform! With full force, without stopping and hesitation. For everything else history will find its place.

izvor: http://vecer.com.mk/?ItemID=CB3E92D9...39E7D352BCD81F

[Tomche Makedonche]

That's right, have a whinge to a nobody, you're a real hero...

[Risto the Great]

Those 15 years trying to find a solution to the dispute with Greece and failed, we argued that the time works for us, trying thereby to lift the blame from themselves, so we see that the time never worked for us. But now we have a reality in such a reality, instead of witch hunt, the best and most useful to citizens if the compressed our ranks and continue together on the path of reform. So when someone asks which is the alternative of Macedonia after Chicago, the answer is one - Reform! With full force, without stopping and hesitation. For everything else history will find its place.

The answer is dignity!
Stand up Macedonians, you have been sucking up harder than Dysons for far too long. It is demeaning.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM.
How, do we convince (brainwash) the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia to agree to change their constitutional name by themselves?
- The Bilderberg Group (1991)

[MKPrilep]

Talk is cheap, do something about it

But Macedonia has much bigger problems. There is a minority who shows loyalty to everyone except their own country and the country has been run by spineless idiots for the last 20 years. The minority itself isn't necessarily a challenge. To me the most distressing issue is that multiple Governments are negotiating our name with a country who spent billions just so Macedonia doesn't exist. This to me is a sign of Government who disrespects its citizens, therefore isn't able to get respect abroad, and it shows ... Bucharest, Chicago, tomorrow it will be another city, and another.

The only thing I can say to the Macedonian Goverment is this - Grow a Pair of Balls, for once! Bring the soldiers home, cut off negotiations with Greece this second, as there is no "Agreement" between the two countries, there never was.

NATO Membership, what is it?


I have yet to see a Macedonian politician who has explained what does a "Membership in NATO" entail? No one has explained to the populace what it means to be a member of NATO -

I for one would like to know how much does it cost to be a member? Second question is how many future wars do we have to start (Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Lybia, Yemen... Iran).

I can also see the benefits - corporate media will tell us "NATO" soldiers committed crimes against civilians and we don't have to worry about it because it's probably someone else.



I have yet to see a Macedonian politician or a political party come up with Plan A, B, C, D when it comes to national security. In a manner of careless gambler on the verge of losing everything, we are placing all our money on NATO/EU as the only alternative! The biggest novice gambler at a Trump run casino would never put all of his money on a single bet, we shouldn't either.



While Macedonians keep themselves busy with NATO, other things are happening. As the UK's Independent put it 'impotent leaders are meeting in Chicago and a military base at Camp David, surrounded by thousands of cops, armed aerial drones flying over, snipers etc. where the main topic of discussion is "capitalism at crossroads". Western leaders are discussing how to survive the crisis without changing the system that manufactures the crisis! Clever, indeed.


The fact NATO and the US invited 60 nations to take part at the Summit in Chicago, says it all "We need everyone's help for the mess we made in Afghanistan". NATO has only 28 members.



Meanwhile Macedonia continues to be encouraged by NATO to send more troops, particularly now that NATO members are facing financial collapse, our soldiers continue to get medals and our Government officials continue to be proud with those medals.



Macedonian politicians should answer what will Macedonia do with NATO and EU facing a financial collapse, neighbor Greece breathing on life support. A prostitute will not enter a car when the driver says "I got no money". Why is Macedonia attempting to enter financially bankrupt and morally corrupt organizations?



Mak politicians are saying we deserve better, adding that we don't want to be warming up NATO's bench! I could be naive, but I believe it's better to sit out some (in this case ALL) games than lose soldiers on foreign lands because of someone's empirical designs.

Macedonia has enjoyed great relations with NATO thus far, particularly in 2001 in Aracinovo. Thanks, but No thanks!



I always wondered how did Swedes and the Swiss sleep at night? Both nations are not in NATO. How do they survive each day without NATO... it's a miracle! //Gorazd Velkovski

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/21057/48/

GREAT TEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[George S.]

you need real people in macedonia to stir things up,stir the people to revolt.Who are the people we can trust to do it??
Guys one thing if we aren't in nato nato is obliged to supply armanents to macedonia for free.I'm not sure about membership fees of nato but if you are a member you have to pay them.
So if we aren't going in nato why participate,why humilate & prostitute yourself for what?
Get the hell out of it & spare your men getting killed.We can survive like switzerland & like any non nato countries.

[DraganOfStip]

NATO is just an extension of USA army and co.,nothing else.Picture all the rest of the members as the head,and USA as the neck.Wherever the neck turns,the head follows.Same during Kosovo war,same in Afghanistan,same in Iraq,same in Libya.Wherever there's oil (subsequently cash) and strategic interests of USA,you have war fought on behalf of 'human rights','saving oppressed people' or 'war on terror'.But where were they in 2008 when Russia stormed Georgia?Weren't the Georgians oppressed?A case of one country invading another sovereign country.Where were NATO's mighty jets to bomb Moscow?All they could do is stick their tails between their legs and say 'Oh no Mr.Putin,what you're doing isn't right',and nothing else.Russia isn't a 6 million people country without nukes to just bomb whatever they want,they would get their asses kicked.So why do we need NATO for?To go occupy USA's enemies and fight their battles as they were our own?F**k NATO,we don't need it.I think the demotivator says it all:

http://vukajlija.com/zabava/posteri/5483

[Makedonska_Kafana]

Glasot Na Narodot 005 09 05 2012 - YouTube