Macedonians Storm Parliament

[vicsinad]

Also interesting to note how Ahmeti was absent in all of this and Gruevski was out of the country...

[Phoenix]

...Maybe Gruo will take your money, though Zaev will take your soul...

Nicely put Pelagonija.

This is essentially the key distinction between the two, it is clearly a choice of the lesser evil...I think it's the key point that Zaev supporters are clearly oblivious to...remember these were the same turds shitting all over their capital with their rampant vandalism last summer...

Would love to hear from the Zaev supporters on this forum...what do you think Dragan?

[Rogi]

Why is there such a strong opposition to new elections being held?

It's blatantly clear that is the only thing that can 'unblock' the situation in Macedonia and get a clear view of the will of the people.

Every other alternative is an almost certainty of leading to some level of civil unrest or civil war.

Why is there such opposition to the one democratic process that can actually help resolve the situation?

[Phoenix]

Going forward, I think the responsible thing would be for Zaev and Ivanov to resign, and for Gruevski to not seek reelection, and let others come into play.

But that's not going to happen.

Ivanov to resign, are you kidding?

The right thing to do is to acknowledge a failed coup and fuckin jail all the key players...arrest the cowboy brandishing the handgun in parliament and go to fresh elections asap...

[Gocka]

Let me ask all of you who think this was a good idea, what will you say when those "patriotic" protesters demand Gruevski and DPMNE come back to power? You will be cursing them again saying how brainwashed they are.

Like RTG said, they burst in waiving ventilators, come on, this is far away from what pretty much any of us wanted or wants.

I'm with Vic, they should have given him the mandate, what he Zaev did was deceptive but not illegal, its not within the powers of Ivanov to decide that. Zaev would have a short mandate because before it even begun he already put an Albanian terrorists as Speaker of the parliament.

Macedonians have a lot to learn before they are in any position to overthrow anyone. God help us if our savior is a few mask wearing, ventilator waving, ustashe, DPMNE thugs.

Some of you have gone madd, and just want blood. I'm very disappointed.

[vicsinad]

Ivanov to resign, are you kidding?

The right thing to do is to acknowledge a failed coup and fuckin jail all the key players...arrest the cowboy brandishing the handgun in parliament and go to fresh elections asap...

Ivanov has become a Gruevski lapdog.

What will come out of fresh elections? What has come out of the elections in the past decade? Alls I see is a DPMNE/DUI coalition. Where has that gotten Macedonia?

I guarantee that Grujo and Ivanov would've given the mandate to Zaev had they dropped the special prosecution and promised amnesty. That's all Grujo wants. Zaev wouldn't give it to him.


Yes, arrest the cowboy with the gun, and also arrest the people grabbing women by the hair and throwing them to the ground.

[vicsinad]

Let me ask all of you who think this was a good idea, what will you say when those "patriotic" protesters demand Gruevski and DPMNE come back to power? You will be cursing them again saying how brainwashed they are.

Like RTG said, they burst in waiving ventilators, come on, this is far away from what pretty much any of us wanted or wants.

I'm with Vic, they should have given him the mandate, what he Zaev did was deceptive but not illegal, its not within the powers of Ivanov to decide that. Zaev would have a short mandate because before it even begun he already put an Albanian terrorists as Speaker of the parliament.

Macedonians have a lot to learn before they are in any position to overthrow anyone. God help us if our savior is a few mask wearing, ventilator waving, ustashe, DPMNE thugs.

Some of you have gone madd, and just want blood. I'm very disappointed.

I echo that.

[Gocka]

Lesser evil, did you forget how angry you were at Gruevsski for, I don't know, maybe a few thousands reasons. UCK statues, UCK terrorist as defense minister, need I go on? For years we have lectured Macedonians that there is no lesser of two evils, that they are all evil. Now all of a sudden we have a knee jerk reaction that there is a lesser of two evils, and that we would rather have Gruevski? How many commentators did we all have a hand in chasing away from the forum for being too pro DPMNE, now its okay?

Its in moments of crisis where you need to be most clear headed and stick to your guns.

The only reason we think this is "worse" is because DPMNE have a more powerful propaganda machine and more protesters to mobilize. This is business as usual, and many of you are on the brink of supporting a treacherous dictator.

This is a golden opportunity to throw in a third option.

Nicely put Pelagonija.

This is essentially the key distinction between the two, it is clearly a choice of the lesser evil...I think it's the key point that Zaev supporters are clearly oblivious to...remember these were the same turds shitting all over their capital with their rampant vandalism last summer...

Would love to hear from the Zaev supporters on this forum...what do you think Dragan?

[Rogi]

What will come out of fresh elections?

A clear mandate and a clear view of the will of the people.

Macedonia intends to be a democracy and in a democracy, it is the people who are the highest form of political authority. In this kind of deadlock situation between the political parties, the power should flow back to the people.

It may be a fact that there are no benevolent political parties in Macedonia; neither the Macedonian parties nor those of any minorities. That is a major problem for Macedonia and there's still no indication of any third party rising from this crisis. Perhaps that may be because Macedonian culture (or what has been conditioned among the Macedonian people over the last 25 years or so) may not allow it in the near future; there's a general cynicism about everyone and anyone, there's no belief in benevolence and altruism.

However, there is an on-going crisis in Macedonia, it is without an effective Government, there will be an increasing economic impact the longer this goes on and it should be up to the people to resolve the issue with their vote and a clear mandate; it is clear the political parties have not been able to do so.

[Gocka]

Look at how one event can tear all of us apart, do you really think its any better in ROM? Do you really think this was a "peoples" revolt? I think when the dust settles, time will show that this was a DPMNE fan club that just wanted to break stuff. We will be right back to square one with a DPMNE and DUI coalition and you will all be outraged at that too.

This is not a crisis, this has been a crisis since 1991, and every action has dug us in deeper. Let Zaev have his mandate, let him implement the Tirana Platform. I say good. You won't get political change real political change until the hard core followers of both parties are disgusted with their own leaders, not just the opposition.

You want a better Macedonia, you need SDSM voters to be just as outraged as everyone else. Then you storm the parliament together.

[vicsinad]

The last elections were a clear mandate. DPMNE failed to form a coalition. SDSM succeeded in forming a coalition. It wasn't illegal. How many times did DPMNE promise something and then go change their tune after elections? SDSM is doing the same thing.

What will happen in another election regardless of who wins is the same thing: circumstances will change and people on whatever side will say a new election is needed to get a clear mandate and clear view of the will of the people.

But elections are going to happen regardless, and the mess won't be solved as long as the status quo continues.

[Pelagonija]

I echo that.

Mate once Zaev is in there is no return. To give you an example I went to progradec last year and had to pay for a beer using sign language. No one spoke English or Macedonian..

Once Albanian is official it will void the need for Macedonian, there will also be long term serious economic and social consequences.

For example

Forget where Albanians are an majority. Let's take Ohrid for example with say roughly 2000 Albanians
-They will require Albanian teachers
-less need for Macedonian teachers
-Albanians will require employment in all public sectors, eg police, army, border guards and so on
-Additional Albanian written signs will be required and documentation

These are some examples I could think of, what does this mean? Less jobs and resources required for no legitimate reason besides ZZ gaining power. And what are the chances of Albanians from Albania and Kosovo getting such jobs in the future? Macedonians will end up jobless, and become a minority with excelerated emmigration due to even less opportunity

[Niko777]

When Gruevski placed Xhaferi in charge of the army, I didn't see a single protester come out to voice their concern towards Gruevski or against the Albanianization of the nation's military.

Zaev places Xhaferi as speaker of the assembly and total chaos erupts.

Please, someone put Xhaferi back in charge of the army!

Forget where Albanians are an majority. Let's take Ohrid for example with say roughly 2000 Albanians
-Additional Albanian written signs will be required and documentation

Under Gruevski's government, Albanian signs were installed in the Municipality of Centar where there are only 1,465 Albanians (3% of the population). Funny how no one protested.





Official documents were also issued in the Albanian language under Gruevski's government. In Rankovce Municipality in eastern Macedonia, where there are ZERO Albanians (0% of the population), traffic licences were issued in Albanian. Funny how no one dared to protest against Gruevski/DPMNE on this issue.

[Karposh]

Serbian Red-Star fans want to march to Skopje to fight against Albanian aggression...maybe they can unite with the Croatian Ustashe!

I would much prefer to let the Red-Star fans know that their support is appreciated. Disrespecting and insulting their well-meaning intentions is not cool at all. And, if they happen to side with the Greeks tomorrow, when the wind blows in from a different direction, well then, that's a judgement we can reserve for another day. But, on its merit today, the Serbian sentiments are welcome and a little decorum would be the order of the day I would suggest.

[Karposh]

Totally agreed, the likes of ZZ got off lightly, if this was 100 years ago they would have got executed.

It was great when ZZ and scare crow shekerinska were throwing paint balls in Skopje when they were trying to create an artificial revolution, I remember how happy they looked. Now they don't look so happy..

As for the status quo The truth is:

- ZZ got this far with the support of left forces both logistically and financially
- ZZ got this far with a smear campaign eg wiretapping
- ZZ got this far and to this point by promising to turn Macedonia into the third Albanian state
- ZZ also got this far by corruption hence his anti corruption campaign is based on utter rubbish, if the west and ZZ were serious about corruption then why don't they release any recordings of the drug dealing murderers thugs turned politicians DUI? Come on guys??

People say in this forum that VMRO is not much better, Though the most immediate and most serious threat is from ZZ. Considering ZZs actions he is not an legitimate alternative.. this man is evil and will plunge Macedonia to war and needs to step down or shot. Then deal with the others..

If you look back at history, the west have always kept us orthodox Christians down and divided in the Balkans. From Ottoman times, to the recent Balkan wars, they even supported the Albanian narrative in 2001 and doing the same thing now. ZZ is simply the Vehicle supporting these latest efforts.

I too remember how happy and proud of themselves Zaev and Shekerinska were while throwing paint balls in their artificial revolution. They don't look so happy now do they. They got off lightly indeed. Death to all Macedonian traitors! - Izrodi gadni.

Good on you Pelagonija, I agree with your comments. And don't be discouraged by negative comments. We're not here to make friends but to voice and share our opinions as Macedonians whenever it concerns Macedonia. Diaspora or not.