Macedonians Storm Parliament

[Risto the Great]

They can refer to our thread listing all the shit things DPmNE have done. If they can attack both parties, it would be a start.

[DraganOfStip]

Dragi,

can you tell us what you know about theses people?

I've only heard of a few names from those listed.
Stefan Vlahov Micov is a writer and university professor, has published many works and is a member of the Writer's Guild of Macedonia. Don't know if he's been involved with politics or if he has any political views at all, but government propaganda outlets have quoted him many times (which doesn't make him a government supporter by default).
Solza Grceva is shapeshifter, she was elected as a SDSM MP but not long after she decided to quit the party (or was expelled, not sure) and become independent. But her views are mainly pro-DPMNE from what I could see and read, as most pro-government media often quote her attacking her former party.
I think everyone knows Mirka Velinovska, one of DPMNE's propaganda tools and columnist along with Milenko Nedelkovski and Janko Ilkovski.
Gjorgji Spasov was an official in the governments of SDSM (ambassador, minister and their MP in several mandates), but I don't know is he's still a member. He's a university professor i think.
Violeta Achkovska is a historian which can be seen in several government-sponsored documentaries regarding VMRO and the repressions during the Yugoslavia period. She is also quoted in pro-government media.
I'm not familiar with any of the other names on that list.
But giving the source of this info (MINA), and the fact that no other media outlet has reported on this in my knowledge (this is the first time I heard about this), I would take this "news" with a grain of salt, just like anything else from this agency.
Could be another attempt to add another in the list of "citizens movements" against the SDSM-DUI government in MINA's propaganda material, like "For United Macedonia", GDOM, "Stop Operation Soros" etc.
Let's wait and see what happens.

[Gocka]

I was suspicious when i saw a few names I recognized, especially Mirka.

The thing is, some of these people might feel like they are nationalists and default to DPmNE because they feel like they are the nationalist party. I wouldn't right them off just because they have supported DPmNE. Just because DPmNE quotes some of them doesn't have to meant there is a direct connection.

Then again I will put more faith in this group or any, when i see them willing to attack both parties.

What is also a possibility is that these little spin-off groups are wings of DPmNE, trying to do some re-branding, and obtain some SDSm seats and then form coalitions with DPmNE. That way they can take advantage of voters who are anti DPmNE and also upset about what SDSm has been doing.

I don't think there is a single unaffiliated group out there, maybe a few individuals but nothing more.

I've only heard of a few names from those listed.
Stefan Vlahov Micov is a writer and university professor, has published many works and is a member of the Writer's Guild of Macedonia. Don't know if he's been involved with politics or if he has any political views at all, but government propaganda outlets have quoted him many times (which doesn't make him a government supporter by default).
Solza Grceva is shapeshifter, she was elected as a SDSM MP but not long after she decided to quit the party (or was expelled, not sure) and become independent. But her views are mainly pro-DPMNE from what I could see and read, as most pro-government media often quote her attacking her former party.
I think everyone knows Mirka Velinovska, one of DPMNE's propaganda tools and columnist along with Milenko Nedelkovski and Janko Ilkovski.
Gjorgji Spasov was an official in the governments of SDSM (ambassador, minister and their MP in several mandates), but I don't know is he's still a member. He's a university professor i think.
Violeta Achkovska is a historian which can be seen in several government-sponsored documentaries regarding VMRO and the repressions during the Yugoslavia period. She is also quoted in pro-government media.
I'm not familiar with any of the other names on that list.
But giving the source of this info (MINA), and the fact that no other media outlet has reported on this in my knowledge (this is the first time I heard about this), I would take this "news" with a grain of salt, just like anything else from this agency.
Could be another attempt to add another in the list of "citizens movements" against the SDSM-DUI government in MINA's propaganda material, like "For United Macedonia", GDOM, "Stop Operation Soros" etc.
Let's wait and see what happens.

[DraganOfStip]

The thing is, some of these people might feel like they are nationalists and default to DPmNE because they feel like they are the nationalist party. I wouldn't right them off just because they have supported DPmNE. Just because DPmNE quotes some of them doesn't have to meant there is a direct connection.

True. Some of them may be sympathetic to the party ideology but dissatisfied with the current leadership and the path it had diverted to in their decade of power.
I just can't understand what is Gjorgji Spasov doing with that bunch (unless it's a completely different person only bearing the same name)...

[Albo]

MEDIA IS REPORTING THAT IVANOV WILL GIVE ZAEV THE MANDATE!

http://www.time.mk/c/d3ad3c703d/ivanov-napladne-mu-go-dava-mandatot-na-zaev.html

[Bill77]

The document Zaev signed rejecting the Tirana platform.....
But if anyone thinks this document actually is some sort of legit guarantee
Has rocks in their head...... We are talking about Rep of Macedonia.

[Vangelovski]

The document Zaev signed rejecting the Tirana platform.....
But if anyone thinks this document actually is some sort of legit guarantee
Has rocks in their head...... We are talking about Rep of Macedonia.

The document itself doesn't actually say anything specific. Its pretty vague and one could easily accept the Tirana platform, FA and Interim Agreement, plus a name change, and easily and argue that they've kept their promise.

[julie]

Cannot link from my phone but EU Federica Mogherini and Hahn have congratulated Zaev and in the statement have said waiting for all parts of the Przino Agreement to be implemented.

Agree with Vangelovski here too

[Albo]

Zaev Wins Mandate to Form Macedonia's Next Govt

After several months of refusing to do so, Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov on Wednesday finally awarded the mandate for forming a government to the Social Democrat leader, Zoran Zaev, removing all remaining obstacles for a peaceful transfer of power.

Ivanov, who came under international pressure after withholding the offer of a mandate to Zaev since March, said at a short ceremony in his office: "The obstacles for awarding the mandate for a new Macedonian government have been removed."

Zaev reiterated the guarantees he had previously given to the President that he would ensure the preservation of the unitary character and territorial integrity of Macedonia.

In the name of the new majority in parliament, "We guarantee protection of unity, sovereignty and territorial integrity [of Macedonia]," Zaev said.

The prolonged political power struggle had left Macedonia without new government since the December 11 early general election.

President Ivanov has been withholding the mandate for new government to Zaev since early March, despite Zaev having by then mustered a majority in parliament with the support of the main ethnic Albanian parties.

Like the former ruling VMRO DPMNE party, Ivanov insisted that should Zaev come to power, he would endanger the country's sovereignty due to his acceptance of various demands set by the ethnic Albanian parties.
These focused on greater language and economic rights for the Albanian community who make up about a quarter of the country's population.

Zaev insisted this was just an excuse - and that VMRO DPMNE, which has led the government since 2006, was only clinging to power to avoid criminal investigations.

The election of an ethnic Albanian, Talat Xhaferi, as new speaker of parliament in April 27 was seen as the turning point in the Macedonian crisis.

That day, the new majority in the chamber, led by the Social Democrats, elected Xhaferi as speaker, overcoming a more than month-long blockade of the constitutive session imposed by VMRO DPMNE.

Minutes later, however, supporters of the VMRO DPMNE party stormed the parliament, injuring some 100 people, including 10 MPs from the new majority.

The violence was seen as a staged prelude to greater violence that would then justify declaring martial law and suspending the transfer of power. However, this did not happen.

Under international pressure, VMRO DPMNE was forced to condemn the rampage and President Gjorge Ivanov also softened his opposition to Zaev.
The new parliamentary majority has the support of 67 of the 120 MPs. Zaev has anounced that he will try to form the new government by the end of this month at the latest.
- See more at: http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti....t283gON8.dpuf

[vicsinad]

The document itself doesn't actually say anything specific. Its pretty vague and one could easily accept the Tirana platform, FA and Interim Agreement, plus a name change, and easily and argue that they've kept their promise.

That's true. I think either a) Ivanov succumbed to international pressure; and/or b) he realized there's not a strong argument for relying on the Constitution to withhold the mandate based on those things. The only thing he asked for -- and basically got -- was the whole bit about the territorial integrity of Macedonia's borders, which I honestly think is the only thing he can really ask for. Maybe it was a way out for Ivanov from not having to deal with the political fight...

But what does this paper even mean, I don't know. If Zaev breaks any of that, then it's not like Ivanov is going take back the mandate or Zaev will be forced to step down by him. It's only good perhaps to have a document that can hold Zaev accountable in the public's eyes, but what does that even matter nowadays, I don't know.

[vicsinad]

Point 4 of that signed statement essentially states that Zaev will not make Macedonia subordinate or dependent on a foreign country, which was the penal code that I referred to earlier in this thread when explaining what I thought Ivanov was referring to when withholding the mandate. This makes me even more confident that Ivanov believed he really has no constitutional authority left to withhold the mandate. He realized this, but maybe DPMNE was hoping that Zaev wouldn't agree to this. Now we'll see how Zaev sells this to the Albanian parties. "We can still have a dialogue about the platform...we just can't implement it."

Endangering the independence
Article 308
A citizen of the Republic of Macedonia, who places the
Republic of Macedonia in a position of subordination or dependence in
relation to some other country, shall be punished with imprisonment of
at least five years.

[DraganOfStip]

The document itself doesn't actually say anything specific. Its pretty vague and one could easily accept the Tirana platform, FA and Interim Agreement, plus a name change, and easily and argue that they've kept their promise.

Yeah, the whole text seems very generalized and inconclusive.
This will leave space for different interpretations and a possible straw for Zajko to hold on to in order to avoid liability in case he starts implementing those things.
A very cunning move indeed.

[Niko777]

Even if the document was specific and written out well, this is Macedonia we're talking about... the country where terrorists become defense ministers and then speakers of the parliament.

This document is worthless and the only purpose it serves is this: Zaev can now justify the legitimacy of his new government, and DPMNE can credit themselves for forcing Zaev to "reject" the Tirana platform.

[vicsinad]

This document is worthless and the only purpose it serves is this: Zaev can now justify the legitimacy of his new government, and DPMNE can credit themselves for making Zaev "reject" the Tirana platform.

Couldn't have said it better.

[Albo]

One thing I don't understand .. all this hog wash and exaggeration about how the platform was ever a " Threat " to the unitary status of the country... I would understand if on of the points would be to demand some form of federalization or cantonization .. but nothing like this exists within the platform..

All this hysteria and constant reuse of the term "Tiranska Platforma" in the media once negotiations between vmro/dui broke down has been extraordinary to analyze.

The term "Tianska Platforma" was coined by vmro as a plan B should negotiations fail with dui.. they activated all the media they control and 'walla' overnight the demon platform was born...

In reality Tirana had ZERO input in the content of the platform.. its a broad gathering of joint in common points across all Albanian party platforms that have existed since independence. The reason for the platform was to make sure that whoever was to negotiate any form of coalition with vmro or sdsm they they wouldn't exchange campaign promises for posts in the government .. So in effect in the past you would have vmro and sdsm negotiate with Albanian Parties on the basis of "Ok who's going to ask for less?' Thats who I'll take....

Even if Zaev wasn't to make the "Tirana Platform" part of his governing platform.. the reality is that he has 3 Albanian Parties in his coalition PLUS tens of thousands of Albanians who voted for him in his own party...all of who have similar demands.. so its going to be pretty difficult for him not to deliver anything from the campaign platforms of the 3 Albanian parties in his block!

Just how far and fast he will go with showing some form of gratitude to the Albanian electorates demands for things like extension of the SP Mandate, decentralization, infrastructure, new language law, entrance to NATO, retrials for sensitive cases like Monstra, Sopot, Kumanovo ect.. will I believe depend on how his relations with the International Community (US and EU) and people on the ground go as he tries to implement his agenda with a very unhelpful vmro .