Macedonians Storm Parliament

[Tomche Makedonche]

Unlike vicsinad, I would not propose letting SDSm have a go just to prove something.

I agree, whilst people focus on the methodologies utilised by Grujo in his quest for power, I don’t think they are giving an equal amount of focus on the methodologies utilised by Zajko in his quest for power, or the scope of their potential.

Basically, what I think I’m hearing, is rather than capitalising on the current momentum within the Macedonian populace, it is proposed that we let this momentum subside and disperse the current movement to allow Zajko and his Albanian coalition take control of the assembly and commence, what I can only assume people think to be the process of ridding Macedonia of its corruption. How does he plan on doing this?, by using the services of, again what I can only assume people view to be, an “independent” Special Prosecutor, to prosecute, coincidentally, only DPNE ministers, or in other words, the governments only opposition. Now after, or in the course of, prosecuting the leadership of DPNE, which will effectively render his only opposition leaderless or rather rudderless like a sinking ship, ignoring the raft of potential opportunity just a majority of the assembly can accomplish, to obtain that magic two thirds majority (which coincidentally due to the makeup of his government would consist of a majority of minority MP’s) all Zajko will need to do is go after 13 MP’s (if that hasn’t already been reduced in his process of ridding the opposition of its leadership), the 13 (or less) most weakest links in the assembly, who have now been left without any support, which he can either bribe, threaten, prosecute or gaol through the use of that independent special prosecutor, in order to open the door to his complete free reign over the country, which would include allowing him to do things such as gaoling the president (effectively giving RoM its first Albanian President Xaferi), altering the constitution, language, name, symbols, and whatever else as he so pleases.

Now it seems to be the view of some people, that allowing the potential for such things to eventuate is considered to be what is reasonably needed in order for SDS supporters, who in the interim period have been rewarded with government positions and public sector jobs for their party support, to finally revolt against Zajko’s agenda and effectively storm the government and replace him with…DPNE?

I don’t know, it might be just me but that looks like just as big, if not bigger, of a gamble to take

As big as the cancer Grujo has become to RoM, I must admit, at least the guy didn’t resort to imprisoning his opposition to achieve his goals, although that maybe simply because he never really had to resort to such measures since the opposition was utterly useless/non-existent and did a brilliant job of digging its own grave during that period.

But hey, since its impossible for Macedonians to transcend party politics and unite in opposition to the Tirana Platform now due to the political context of the situation, its probably best to just exercise patience and see how it pans out, what could go wrong?, I mean its not like Grujo didn’t agree to the Tirana Platform anyway, and at least RoM will be finally rid of corruption with Zajko.

Albo: How do you say “Can I have one Café Latte with two sugars please” in Albanian?

[Albo]

Albo: How do you say “Can I have one Café Latte with two sugars please” in Albanian?

A mundet një Kafe me qumësht, me dy sheqer! :-p

But there is no need for you to know or ask in Albanian.. nobody is replacing Macedonian with Albanian anywhere.. in reality on the ground in everyday life NOTHING WILL CHANGE! Especially for the Macedonian's.. any enhancements to the Albanian language(if made ) won't effect anyone's daily life one single bit..

People will still complain about the same issues they always have.. the main change will come tinthe Albanians .. who hope they won't continue to be marginalized and that state funded and orchestrated events like Brodec,Sopot, Smilkovci, Kumanovo will stop from reoccurring and the real people behind the incidents will be brought to justice!

==============================
New footage of Sela being carried away by the hooligan/terrorists and a short interview with the Albanian Security officer who saved his life!



Села е во стабилна состојба; Човекот што му го спаси животот зборува за часовите на ужас

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcSkGDiN54k&feature=youtu.be

[Phoenix]

I agree, whilst people focus on the methodologies utilised by Grujo in his quest for power, I don’t think they are giving an equal amount of focus on the methodologies utilised by Zajko in his quest for power, or the scope of their potential.

Basically, what I think I’m hearing, is rather than capitalising on the current momentum within the Macedonian populace, it is proposed that we let this momentum subside and disperse the current movement to allow Zajko and his Albanian coalition take control of the assembly and commence, what I can only assume people think to be the process of ridding Macedonia of its corruption. How does he plan on doing this?, by using the services of, again what I can only assume people view to be, an “independent” Special Prosecutor, to prosecute, coincidentally, only DPNE ministers, or in other words, the governments only opposition. Now after, or in the course of, prosecuting the leadership of DPNE, which will effectively render his only opposition leaderless or rather rudderless like a sinking ship, ignoring the raft of potential opportunity just a majority of the assembly can accomplish, to obtain that magic two thirds majority (which coincidentally due to the makeup of his government would consist of a majority of minority MP’s) all Zajko will need to do is go after 13 MP’s (if that hasn’t already been reduced in his process of ridding the opposition of its leadership), the 13 (or less) most weakest links in the assembly, who have now been left without any support, which he can either bribe, threaten, prosecute or gaol through the use of that independent special prosecutor, in order to open the door to his complete free reign over the country, which would include allowing him to do things such as gaoling the president (effectively giving RoM its first Albanian President Xaferi), altering the constitution, language, name, symbols, and whatever else as he so pleases.

Now it seems to be the view of some people, that allowing the potential for such things to eventuate is considered to be what is reasonably needed in order for SDS supporters, who in the interim period have been rewarded with government positions and public sector jobs for their party support, to finally revolt against Zajko’s agenda and effectively storm the government and replace him with…DPNE?

I don’t know, it might be just me but that looks like just as big, if not bigger, of a gamble to take

As big as the cancer Grujo has become to RoM, I must admit, at least the guy didn’t resort to imprisoning his opposition to achieve his goals, although that maybe simply because he never really had to resort to such measures since the opposition was utterly useless/non-existent and did a brilliant job of digging its own grave during that period.

But hey, since its impossible for Macedonians to transcend party politics and unite in opposition to the Tirana Platform now due to the political context of the situation, its probably best to just exercise patience and see how it pans out, what could go wrong?, I mean its not like Grujo didn’t agree to the Tirana Platform anyway, and at least RoM will be finally rid of corruption with Zajko.

Albo: How do you say “Can I have one Café Latte with two sugars please” in Albanian?

Yep, nice summation TM.

I still can't believe that supporters of Zaev can be that stupid and short sighted, it's one thing to believe his bullshit about getting Macedonia into the EU or NATO, as if that's never been promised to the stupid fucks before but to be handed the treachery of the tirana platform post elections and then attempting to form government via such surreptitious means and still they sit idly with their thumbs jammed up their arse, is absolutely mind boggling...

Seriously, how much lies, incompetence and self harm are these morons prepared to endure before they crawl out from under the rocks.

[Phoenix]

...New footage of Sela being carried away by the hooligan/terrorists and a short interview with the Albanian Security officer who saved his life!

what do you mean he was "being carried away by the hooligan/terrorists"...

I'm still calling a big bullshit on this entire Sela story...makes very little sense.

[Pelagonija]

I agree, whilst people focus on the methodologies utilised by Grujo in his quest for power, I don’t think they are giving an equal amount of focus on the methodologies utilised by Zajko in his quest for power, or the scope of their potential.

Basically, what I think I’m hearing, is rather than capitalising on the current momentum within the Macedonian populace, it is proposed that we let this momentum subside and disperse the current movement to allow Zajko and his Albanian coalition take control of the assembly and commence, what I can only assume people think to be the process of ridding Macedonia of its corruption. How does he plan on doing this?, by using the services of, again what I can only assume people view to be, an “independent” Special Prosecutor, to prosecute, coincidentally, only DPNE ministers, or in other words, the governments only opposition. Now after, or in the course of, prosecuting the leadership of DPNE, which will effectively render his only opposition leaderless or rather rudderless like a sinking ship, ignoring the raft of potential opportunity just a majority of the assembly can accomplish, to obtain that magic two thirds majority (which coincidentally due to the makeup of his government would consist of a majority of minority MP’s) all Zajko will need to do is go after 13 MP’s (if that hasn’t already been reduced in his process of ridding the opposition of its leadership), the 13 (or less) most weakest links in the assembly, who have now been left without any support, which he can either bribe, threaten, prosecute or gaol through the use of that independent special prosecutor, in order to open the door to his complete free reign over the country, which would include allowing him to do things such as gaoling the president (effectively giving RoM its first Albanian President Xaferi), altering the constitution, language, name, symbols, and whatever else as he so pleases.

Now it seems to be the view of some people, that allowing the potential for such things to eventuate is considered to be what is reasonably needed in order for SDS supporters, who in the interim period have been rewarded with government positions and public sector jobs for their party support, to finally revolt against Zajko’s agenda and effectively storm the government and replace him with…DPNE?

I don’t know, it might be just me but that looks like just as big, if not bigger, of a gamble to take

As big as the cancer Grujo has become to RoM, I must admit, at least the guy didn’t resort to imprisoning his opposition to achieve his goals, although that maybe simply because he never really had to resort to such measures since the opposition was utterly useless/non-existent and did a brilliant job of digging its own grave during that period.

But hey, since its impossible for Macedonians to transcend party politics and unite in opposition to the Tirana Platform now due to the political context of the situation, its probably best to just exercise patience and see how it pans out, what could go wrong?, I mean its not like Grujo didn’t agree to the Tirana Platform anyway, and at least RoM will be finally rid of corruption with Zajko.

Albo: How do you say “Can I have one Café Latte with two sugars please” in Albanian?

Well written comment.. especially re the "independent" prosecutor.. to me all the major parties in ROM are equally corrupt, and in DUIs case evil and corrupt and racists, hence SJO is a political tool used to wipe out VMRO. I don't buy into the narrative that Eden evro ZZ is anti corruption as he is just as corrupt.

The thing that irks me is that people in Macedonia have fallen the bait.. for example take the protests re Ivanovs decision to pardon his VMRO buddies when everyone in parliament and Balkans are corrupt?

- Did we have mass protests when we got into the UN with FYROM?
- Did we have mass protests when the UCK murderers got pardon?
- Did we have mass protests when sds went into government with dui in 2002 or change the municipal borders to give struga and kicevo to the Albanians?
- Did we have mass protests for smilkovci or the kumanovo shootings?

But hang on VMRO is corrupt, site skokna.. let's hit the self destruction button.. people pooring petrol on the fire in order to see what will happen.

And I'm not wanting gruo to get back in though why the fark isn't he premier if:

- He agreed to the Alb platform? Hence is Alb friendly? Did the deal fall through due to DUIs request to extend SJO ? When they are both the same? hence is DUI above the law? Then what's the point, that's illogical


Based on the lesbian of Damascus AKA DragonOfStips theory, that the Albanian parties did not want to be seen colluding with "anti Albanian" VMRO supporters who agreed with the Albanian platform anyway hence they opted for Zaev is ludicrous when gruo accepted the platform?.

Hence the Macedonians are the problem.. the people who drive the narrative.. why do Macedonians accept Anti Macedonian platforms and politicians??

ZZ inch by inch is gaining power with force.. the results wil be colourful..

[Pelagonija]

A mundet një Kafe me qumësht, me dy sheqer! :-p

But there is no need for you to know or ask in Albanian.. nobody is replacing Macedonian with Albanian anywhere.. in reality on the ground in everyday life NOTHING WILL CHANGE! Especially for the Macedonian's.. any enhancements to the Albanian language(if made ) won't effect anyone's daily life one single bit..

People will still complain about the same issues they always have.. the main change will come tinthe Albanians .. who hope they won't continue to be marginalized and that state funded and orchestrated events like Brodec,Sopot, Smilkovci, Kumanovo will stop from reoccurring and the real people behind the incidents will be brought to justice!

==============================
New footage of Sela being carried away by the hooligan/terrorists and a short interview with the Albanian Security officer who saved his life!



Села е во стабилна состојба; Човекот што му го спаси животот зборува за часовите на ужас


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcSk...ature=youtu.be

Albo FFS piss off.. the Albanians are masters of murdering and provoking..

Farking drug dealing organ harvesters.. since your confident that the Smilkovci murders aren't in gaol then please enlighten us as to who did it. It seems to me every Albanian murder is justified.. very offensive

Fark you..

[Albo]

The truth will be known once the recordings are released.. in the meantime you can read some articles about the case in the separate Smilkovci thread!

[Pelagonija]

The truth will be known once the recordings are released.. in the meantime you can read some articles about the case in the separate Smilkovci thread!

Fark you..

Perhaps you should watch that documentary and read those articles on the staged Racak massacre..

Albanians are cowards.. and murderers

[Soldier of Macedon]

Has Zaev accepted the Tirana Platform?

Was that not a specific condition by the ethnic Albanian parties before they form a coalition with a Macedonian party? Isn't that the reason why DUI refused to form a coalition with DPNE, because Gruevski rejected the platform? Just to play devil's advocate here, if Gruevski was more concerned about protecting his own arse from prosecution rather than continuing to further the 'Albanianisation' of Macedonia, why wouldn't he accept the platform and form a coalition with DUI?

Based on the storming of the parliament (not the goons' actions of beating up the politicians)......

Are you suggesting that SDS supporters also stormed the parliament?

But we shouldn't also ignore that, despite being Macedonian, Vlado Chrenozemski is not associated with moderate or left-wing Macedonians. He's associated with the Vancho Mihajlov and ustashe........

Many of our historical figures have colourful pasts. I'm not saying one good deed cancels out all bad deeds, but as far as actions go, Vlado's most significant deed probably stands above his more shadier associations. I don't expect everybody to share that opinion. Is the group which is using his namesake advocating Vancho's vision for Macedonia?

You couldn't possibly know the level of outrage sitting thousands of miles away. You don't know what conversations are being had around the kitchen table.

Many of us have family there who we regularly keep in contact with. We may not always agree with their views but we do have some idea of what they're thinking. We care. That's why we're here expressing our opinions. Your condescending and dismissive attitude towards the diaspora is unwarranted and doesn't exactly foster robust discussion.

You yourself would be guilty of being full of shit, if you now believe that Grujo is he lesser of two evils because not to long ago you didn't believe that.

I think the more pressing issue for Macedonia right now is to stop Zaev implementing the Tirana Platform and further eroding Macedonia's national sovereignty, because if he manages that, it will be irreversible, just like all of the other stupid concessions that have been made since independence. After that, assuming Macedonians in the republic manage to maintain their will and determination, they should be consistent and hold others (from all parties) to account for their betrayals and future promises. Giving corrupt individuals a few more days of freedom before they inevitably face justice is not as immediately concerning as allowing another nail being hammered into the coffin of Macedonia. You seem to be pinning your hopes on SDS supporters raising the banner of revolt against their leadership should the latter try to implement the Tirana Platform. So they would be turning against them for patriotic purposes. Where have they been for the last decade when Gruevski was making all those unpatriotic concessions? Why don't they insert themselves into the 'movement' of the current demonstrators and impose a balanced perspective and direction? Why wait until more damage is done? Why not push for unity now?

Most of us, including you have been telling Macedonians to stop falling for the partisan politics and the faux "patriots" of DPMNE, now you think their faux patriotism is less dangerous then having none. In the end they both equal 0 don't they? So why the sudden shift?

The only shift is in your hyperbolic imagination. Relax.

Also how is it misleading.........

Most of the contributors on this thread are from the diaspora. You suggested that they think Gruevski is "going to be the protector of democracy and sovereignty in Macedonia". Can you name some of the diaspora contributors on this thread who have made such a statement?

The only reason the Albanians rejected DPMNE is because there was too much pressure in the Albanian community about the scandals and the SPO.

Can you refer us to a source for that?

[DraganOfStip]

1) No Gruo should not get in back in power.

OK, so if you don't want Zajko nor Grujo in power, what is the solution then according to you?

2) If Gruo accepted the platform 51 + 10 ministers = 61 ministers then why isn't GRUO in government today?

I've wasted my last few posts explaining that to you and you just go back to square one? Really?
Because he doesn't want to end up in jail by extending the mandate of SJO. Ivanov tried to fix that for him with the amnesty last year but then people revolted and the whole plan went down the drain. So now ending SJO is the only chance for him and almost the entire DPMNE Central Committee to avoid long prison terms. That is a hell of a motivation not to accept that condition, wouldn't you say?

3) Why do you protest Ivanovs decision to pardon the VMRO from criminal charges?

You're asking the wrong question, the real question should be "why do you NOT protest Ivanov's decision to pardon DPMNE from criminal charges?" If you seriously don't see anything wrong with that shameful act of abolishing all those crimes we heard, then you have some serious issues.

Based on the lesbian of Damascus AKA DragonOfStips theory

Watch your mouth boy! You're crossing the line here! I haven't been using such language to you so be careful what you write from now on!

[Pelagonija]

OK, so if you don't want Zajko nor Grujo in power, what is the solution then according to you?


I've wasted my last few posts explaining that to you and you just go back to square one? Really?
Because he doesn't want to end up in jail by extending the mandate of SJO. Ivanov tried to fix that for him with the amnesty last year but then people revolted and the whole plan went down the drain. So now ending SJO is the only chance for him and almost the entire DPMNE Central Committee to avoid long prison terms. That is a hell of a motivation not to accept that condition, wouldn't you say?


You're asking the wrong question, the real question should be "why do you NOT protest Ivanov's decision to pardon DPMNE from criminal charges?" If you seriously don't see anything wrong with that shameful act of abolishing all those crimes we heard, then you have some serious issues.


Watch your mouth boy! You're crossing the line here! I haven't been using such language to you so be careful what you write from now on!

1) Vote for whoever though none of the above.
2) You don't understand the point.. I'm asking you why should Gruo be worried about Gail and not Ali or ZZ..? Are you incapable of understanding this point?
3) I'm saying it's people like you who are the problem.. by picking sides..you protest ones corruption and not the other. I'm telling you they are all equally corrupt
4)There you go again with your communist leftist mentality, silencing any opinion which does not appeal making threats etc etc you remind me of the lesbian of Damascus, white male in the us pretending to be a lesbian in syria spewing fake leftist crap.

Man up, if you really want to save mkd get urself a Sheila and breed., have 3 or 4 kids.. that is if you really live in ROM.. Admin your a commi end of story.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Man up, if you really want to save mkd get urself a Sheila and breed., have 3 or 4 kids.. that is if you really live in ROM.. Admin your a commi end of story.

Dragan resides in Macedonia. He is married with kids. While I can't comment on whether he likes munching on Syrian carpets (???), I think its more appropriate to try and keep the topic focused on the arguments or opinions expressed (without letting the odd pot shot escalate any more than it should).

[Soldier of Macedon]

But i assure you that the contents of the platform are not full blown nationalistic...

Rubbish. What business do ethnic Albanians have demanding a "comprehensive debate on the flag, anthem and coat of arms in order for state symbols to reflect multiethnicity social and ethnic equality"? So the anthem should be part Macedonian, part Albanian? Or also part Vlach, part Turkish, part Roma, etc? Idiotic. The coat of arms? Here, I will make a "multi-ethnic" suggestion:

But patients is wearing thin.. unfortunately you can't expect the Albanians to be more against a name change than possible NATO membership......

We would only expect that of citizens who respect the national identity of the country in which they live.

Who said anything about Macedonians having to learn Albanian?

Do you believe it should be mandatory for all citizens in Macedonia to learn Macedonian?

[Risto the Great]

Suggestive. But I am not sure why a lion would enjoy the taste of Byzantine.

[Risto the Great]

1) Man up, if you really want to save mkd get urself a Sheila and breed., have 3 or 4 kids.. that is if you really live in ROM.. Admin your a commi end of story.

Seriously?
Are you that guy in the Croatian shirt that stormed the parliament?
40 odd posts in and guns blazing.
Calm down and see if you can learn something from Dragan.