Macedonians Storm Parliament

[Phoenix]

Look perception is everything..in Albanian media these are the images that people have seen of Sela.





This is what has created the pro Sela change in opinion...

Are you fuckin' kidding me...???

1. We don't even know if it's Sela in either picture
2. Are the two pics of the same person?
3. If they're treating him (Sela) why is he wearing different clothes?
4. When did he get a chance to change clothes
5. If he's being treated for having the shit punched out of him, why is he even fully clothed...any clinical examination of the extent of his injuries would require a Secondary Survey to determine if any other injuries exist to his entire body...this would entail removing all clothing to check for all external and internal trauma...they wouldn't be dressing him in sport leisure wear...you idiot.

Just a couple of other points...
If that's Sela...he's clearly not in any health danger...the top picture is as fake as rubber dog-shit.
He's clearly conscious and breathing without aid, skin looks to be of normal colour which suggests good perfusion (that's a very good thing), large bandage on his nose clearly indicates that bleeding has stopped, can't see any evidence of CPR or a defibrillator, nor are any of the 'medical' people positioned around him to indicate high acuity...only one of the three people in frame are wearing gloves (very bad thing), which indicates a totally unprofessional medical management scene which suggests that whoever the bloke wearing the 'New York' hoodie is, he's certainly not in ANY life threatening situation at worst, or a total fabrication at least.

Seriously mate...you're a fuckin idiot if you believe that shit...

[Albo]

Look as I said this is the "perception" don't know what is true and either do you... we weren't there to habe an eyewitness account on the truth..

Conflicts are all based on perception when things get out of hand.. and as humans we all create our own perceptions depending on a number of factors..

Sela regardless of his views is a legitimately elected member of parliament.. there are members in European Parliaments with much more radical views than Sela who don't get bashed to a pulp...

The perception that rapists, murderers and nationalist hoons in masks are the Patriotic savior of Macedonia is also a perception...

All I'm saying is that the whole incident and the fact that he was the only hospitalized deputy who still remains in hospital has elevated his position in the Albanian world..

[Pelagonija]

They should have cut his head off and send him to jihad heaven with his 610 virgins

[Phoenix]

Look as I said this is the "perception" don't know what is true and either do you... we weren't there to habe an eyewitness account on the truth..

Conflicts are all based on perception when things get out of hand.. and as humans we all create our own perceptions depending on a number of factors..

Sela regardless of his views is a legitimately elected member of parliament.. there are members in European Parliaments with much more radical views than Sela who don't get bashed to a pulp...

The perception that rapists, murderers and nationalist hoons in masks are the Patriotic savior of Macedonia is also a perception...

All I'm saying is that the whole incident and the fact that he was the only hospitalized deputy who still remains in hospital has elevated his position in the Albanian world..

C'mon mate...I'm giving you some credit here...you're working really hard to prove to me that you're a fuckin' idiot but I'm not buying it just yet...just have a go at answering any of the questions I posted above, even if you do it privately just to be honest with yourself, have a think about the shit that you read on Facebook and the fake media.

First aid responders, paramedics, army medics, nurses and doctors are all trained in a similar way for first response and basic medical protocols...none of which seem to have been followed if we're to believe that those 2 pics follow a linear progression from Sela's beating in parliament to 'his treatment'...believe me, it doesn't stack up.

One other question, the top pic with Sela laying comfortably back, looking like he'd just run a leisurely 10 kms around Central Park, in his 'New York' themed sports hoodie, before tripping and falling and grazing his nose...why is that pic so perfectly clear but we still don't get a clear picture of his face...afterall, you shiptari are the masters of the perfect photo opportunity...simple answer buddy...because it's not him.

[Phoenix]

They should have cut his head off and send him to jihad heaven with his 610 virgins

Only the USA can give 'em that glorious send off...look at the shit we're copping just for a few bitch slaps and breaking a couple of camera tripods over concrete skulls...

[Amphipolis]

There are many things I don't understand in the rules and practices comparing to the Greek ones. Many other foreigners from around the world will be probably making the same questions to you today.

I don't understand what exactly in the Parliament procedures was illegal or irregular. Why is this called a coup? How can one stop a parliament from operating and forming a Government? We also have mandates in Greece, but we don’t have a problem with the President refusing to give them. What happens then?

Also, what is it that Ivanov and Gruevski practically propose? New elections, I guess. Still, if the new elections had (theoretically) the exact same result, would Ivanov give a mandate to Zaev?

This article provides the answers (at least VMRO-DPNE's side).

http://kurir.mk/en/?p=58154

What is not exactly answered is how would they would stop a normal and regular speaker election.

[Tomche Makedonche]

When Gruevski placed Xhaferi in charge of the army, I didn't see a single protester come out to voice their concern towards Gruevski or against the Albanianization of the nation's military.

Zaev places Xhaferi as speaker of the assembly and total chaos erupts.

I don’t personally believe that the ethnicity of the speaker was the reason the protestors stormed the government, but if it was because they specifically nominated Talat Xhaferi in this instance, it may have something to do with the fact that should something happen to Ivanov, in accordance with the constitution, RoM will have its first Albanian President, that is until another can be elected.

I think we are likely to see parallel institutions going forward

[DraganOfStip]

Dragan, you frame your entire post in such negative language, I find it particularly disturbing and disappointing...your focus should be on the unconstitutional method used to elect a new parliamentary speaker, not the aftermath.
I never knew that democracy was enacted on the very outer periphery of constitutional law, behind the back of the president, by stealth and by whisper in darkened rooms and hallways...this should be the focus of your outrage here (and of a few other members here on the MTO), not the disgraceful name and shame obsession that a few of you have here.
Your anger should be fixed on the method of the madness, the blatant disregard for the democratic process, because if you, as a citizen of Macedonia accept that the speaker of parliament can be elected in such a manner, then you should fear the potential malevolent power of that new regime, if you really care for the future of Macedonia you should be shit scared about what could follow next...a new government formed behind the veil of secrecy and having absolutely no transparency will be the thug, bully and monster of your worst nightmares.

I don't have great knowledge of our legislation so I wouldn't know whether or not the new speaker was elected legally.
If I focus on that I would only be speculating and nothing more.
On the other hand, video and photo footage shows the connection between the assailants and DPMNE. It proves that this was all orchestrated and coordinated by DPMNE.
And while talking about making decisions "by stealth and whisper in darkened rooms and hallways", this is nothing new. Macedonian politicians have been using this method to come/stay in power since the first day of our independence. Bending laws to serve their need is common practice.
From now on if my posts are too negative,disturbing and disappointing for you, I suggest you don't read them.
And while speaking of negative posts, I don't see many positive things in your posts either, but who am I to judge?

[Phoenix]

...And while speaking of negative posts, I don't see many positive things in your posts either, but who am I to judge?

Just point me in the direction of something positive I may have missed...

[DraganOfStip]

Just point me in the direction of something positive I may have missed...

Exactly my point.
Everything that's been happening is negative and it's reflecting in everyone's posts here, yours and mine included.
Fact is, Zajko will do everything in his power to grab to power, and Grujo will do everything in his power to hold on to it.
Nothing positive can come out of that either way.

[Phoenix]

Maybe it's just me...BUT I just don't think too many people around here get the enormity of the situation or the potential disaster unfolding before our eyes...we seem to be edging ever so closer to the point of no return...we demand greater vigilance from the Macedonian's in the Republic, we talk with great pride about those historic figures who have shed blood for Macedonia, those that have faced off against great empires to fight for freedom and our place under the sun and yet we've got people arguing about a minor scuffle in parliament, we're debating the civility of protest and the niceties of compromise and non-violence, in some Ghandi-esque wet leftist dream...we even have pages dedicated to some random dude in a Croatian top wandering through parliament or something as ridiculously irrelevant.

We have people here who continue to point the finger at somebody to blame, to somehow limit the credibility of this final push against outright tyranny...that somehow we're not following some mythical rulebook of how this task should be undertaken so that we look 'civil' in the eyes of the world or that it could be undertaken without dragging some whore by the hair through the corridors of parliament or whether or not Zaev deserved his head cracked open like a watermelon.

I'm sick of reading that this has the hallmarks of some VMRO-DPMNE plot or that DUI has been complicit or other rubbish that's the figment of the imagination of people with their heads buried in their arse...

Let me assure you...we don't know if anybody coordinated the so called 'storming' of parliament...we don't know who punched the shit out of Sela, or why...we don't know what the fellow with the Croatian shirt was doing in parliament, or even what nationality he is...we don't know why people chose to wear balaclavas...we don't even know if they caused anybody harm...

What we do know is that Zaev and his cobbled crew of shiptar misfits have attempted to illegally nominate a parliament speaker...we know that Zaev will impose the shiptar tongue all across Macedonia...the lunacy of just those actions should be uniting all Macedonian's not the bullshit and disgraceful carry-on on here.

For those of you in the diaspora who should understand one or two things about democracy, you're the greatest disappointment in all of this...the bananas in Macedonia who wouldn't understand democracy if it bit them on the arse is another proposition all together...

[Albo]

C'mon mate...I'm giving you some credit here...you're working really hard to prove to me that you're a fuckin' idiot

Seriously are the insults really necessary? Is it allowed in the forum by the moderators? I haven't shown any form of radical view do disrespect to any forum member or derogatory comments towards Macedonians to warrant such abuse.

First aid responders, paramedics, army medics, nurses and doctors are all trained in a similar way for first response and basic medical protocols...none of which seem to have been followed if we're to believe that those 2 pics follow a linear progression from Sela's beating in parliament to 'his treatment'...believe me, it doesn't stack up.

I'll believe you if you were inside the same room as it happened...
I'm not in the medical profession to be able to make a detailed medical diagnoses via a few photos.. and I wouldn't think you are either...

The facts are that he arrived in hospital in a a critical condition which was downgraded to stable 2 days later and has been transferred to Tetovo hospital for further treatment. Doctors have restricted visitors.

One other question, the top pic with Sela laying comfortably back, looking like he'd just run a leisurely 10 kms around Central Park, in his 'New York' themed sports hoodie, before tripping and falling and grazing his nose...why is that pic so perfectly clear but we still don't get a clear picture of his face...

As I said I don't know if it was him or not because I wasn't present either were you to 100% confirm that wasn't.. what I'm saying is that this is the picture and perception that has been created after the violence.

The incident has elevated him and already there are poems and patriotic songs going viral on the Internet and social media .. they made a hero over him overnight!

The same occurred in Kosovo with Ademi Jashari,
The masses and political elite considered him a radical outsider early on.. when the Serbs killed him and his family he became an overnight hero known to all Albanians and the main figure of the struggle.

[Phoenix]

Seriously are the insults really necessary? Is it allowed in the forum by the moderators? I haven't shown any form of radical view do disrespect to any forum member or derogatory comments towards Macedonians to warrant such abuse.




I'll believe you if you were inside the same room as it happened...
I'm not in the medical profession to be able to make a detailed medical diagnoses via a few photos.. and I wouldn't think you are either...

The facts are that he arrived in hospital in a a critical condition which was downgraded to stable 2 days later and has been transferred to Tetovo hospital for further treatment. Doctors have restricted visitors.



As I said I don't know if it was him or not because I wasn't present either were you to 100% confirm that wasn't.. what I'm saying is that this is the picture and perception that has been created after the violence.

The incident has elevated him and already there are poems and patriotic songs going viral on the Internet and social media .. they made a hero over him overnight!

The same occurred in Kosovo with Ademi Jashari,
The masses and political elite considered him a radical outsider early on.. when the Serbs killed him and his family he became an overnight hero known to all Albanians and the main figure of the struggle.

I told you exactly what I thought about the pictures you posted, I went into detail about why I thought they were fake, you haven't disputed a single point with a solid rebuttal...I'm extremely confident that if you consulted a medical expert that he wouldn't have too much issue with any point that I've raised...the point is, you clearly don't understand even the most basic first responder protocols, but you continue to argue with me... I maintain that you're a dickhead because you post random shit on here without even questioning your own sources...just because they write poems and sing songs or fete him with rose petals doesn't mean the pics were genuine...it just means there's even bigger dickheads than you out there...

[vicsinad]

I told you exactly what I thought about the pictures you posted, I went into detail about why I thought they were fake..

Abre dosta with the fake photos. I'm sure also the videos were fake, all the 30+ journalists in the rooms were lying and filed fake reports, all the MPs were wearing masks that replicated politicians' faces, all the hugging and kissing and high-fiving with the DPMNE members was spontaneous and they didn't know each other, and SDSM/Sela staged this so they could gain credibility in the eyes of the world.

For those of you in the diaspora who should understand one or two things about democracy, you're the greatest disappointment in all of this

Yeah...okay.

"Kill Zaev and Sekerinska, that whore, and fuck Albanians...Gruevski is better than Zaev! Now I understand democracy!"

I'm glad I can no longer be a disappointment to you.

[Phoenix]

Abre dosta with the fake photos. I'm sure also the videos were fake, all the 30+ journalists in the rooms were lying and filed fake reports, all the MPs were wearing masks that replicated politicians' faces, all the hugging and kissing and high-fiving with the DPMNE members was spontaneous and they didn't know each other, and SDSM/Sela staged this so they could gain credibility in the eyes of the world.




Yeah...okay.

"Kill Zaev and Sekerinska, that whore, and fuck Albanians...Gruevski is better than Zaev! Now I understand democracy!"

I'm glad I can no longer be a disappointment to you.

Moron...you don't even know which photos I'm talking about.

Apart from not wanting to see the shiptar tongue given equal standing to the Macedonian language, I haven't said a word against the shiptari, so I'd appreciate if you kept your responses to me accurate.

It's one thing to have a soft spot for Zaev and Sekerinska but it's another thing to turn a blind eye to their treachery in what has unfolded, you can be the poster boy for giving Zaev 6 months in power but don't expect that it would go unnoticed here...meanwhile you can spend another few pages of diversions by chasing some dude in the Croatian shirt...