Politics and elections in France

[Amphipolis]

You've seen the evidence on this forum about what Greece has done in the name of creating, and maintaining, a Greek national identity, and how it suppressed so-called "foreign" identities during that quest (Macedonian, Vlah, Albanian, etc.)...instead of focusing on an economic agenda that made sense, thus leading to the current state of Greece's laughable economy and terrible record on the rights of all its citizens, especially regarding ethnic Macedonians.

I still don’t understand you. What you call “suppression of foreign identities” (nice term by the way) refers to episodes of the 1940s, 1910s or earlier. How is, for instance, the ousting of Chams after the occupation related to economic growth?

I agree with you.
It didn't do that at all.
In fact, it created a national identity in the region to improve Greece's economics. Without the resources of Northern Greece, original Greece was a pile of unproductive rocks and olives.
But Greece does have an unhealthy fascination with playing with itself in terms of identity.

North Greece (Macedonia and Thrace) represent around 17+3=20% of Greek GDP.

An excellent perspective.

I don’t know if it is excellent, but it’s the opposite of yours.

[vicsinad]

I still don’t understand you. What you call “suppression of foreign identities” (nice term by the way) refers to episodes of the 1940s, 1910s or earlier. How is, for instance, the ousting of Chams after the occupation related to economic growth?

So you're saying Greece supported and promoted the Macedonian ethnic identity after the Greek Civil War? I don't understand you.

[Amphipolis]

So you're saying Greece supported and promoted the Macedonian ethnic identity after the Greek Civil War? I don't understand you.

To be honest I can't think of ANYONE in Greece promoting the ethnic Macedonian identity in the 1950s. This is thought as a "dark" decade where the post-Civil War trauma is slowly cured, the last communist spies (Beloyiannis et al) are executed while others are imprisoned or exiled; the Communist Party is illegal and anti-communist hysteria is high.

At the same time Greece has (along with Japan) the highest economic growth in the world. So, what is your point exactly?

[vicsinad]

So you're saying the Greek authorities were spending time and money (in the 1950s-1990s) to suppress the Macedonian identity, instead of focusing on an economic plan that would not lead to the mess it is in right now? What better way to keep the Greeks minds off the economy than by continuing the national Greek myth that Greece is pure of non-Greeks...which must have cost a lot of money and resources, right?

[Risto the Great]

North Greece (Macedonia and Thrace) represent around 17+3=20% of Greek GDP .

And without Macedonia's resources you wouldn't even have electricity to make your Turkish coffee. Then talk about how you make your GDP. 70% of Greece's electricity and let's not forget where your good food comes from either.

Anyway, good steal.

[George S.]

I Remember why macedonia was annexed for the land as AThens area was all swamp.Without the aegean area greece was nothing.Its true the aegean area was more productive and thats where the rezources came.It all happened because the macedonians became dispossesed.Who said stealing doesnt pay.All this time greece has ignored the macedonians.

[Vangelovski]

Very well reasoned and very well put Vangelovski. Very astute analysis.

I would only add a few things, however. Within each of these ideologies is the strong notion of entitlement.

People who advocate or live in anyone of these ideologies (national socialism, fascism, communism) all believe they are entitled to government largess.

Second, the phrase "national socialism" is preferable to Nazism because Nazism is not a correct political term.

Third, there is a strong and very hostile voice of intolerance and political correctness, often coupled with social justice themes and forceful (government coercion) of equality.

I think there's a lot we could add to what I wrote, but I broadly agree with what you have stated above.

[Phoenix]

...At the same time Greece has (along with Japan) the highest economic growth in the world. So, what is your point exactly?

...it hasn't exactly turned out as you had planned, your country is now that shit stain at the bottom of a toilet and even the hapless Japanese are locked into a perpetual cycle of economic recession...so, what is your point exactly?

Perhaps you and the Japanese were the beneficiaries of western benevolence, but left to your own devices you've squandered much of that goodwill and support, only to be back at the bottom...

[makedonche]

...it hasn't exactly turned out as you had planned, your country is now that shit stain at the bottom of a toilet and even the hapless Japanese are locked into a perpetual cycle of economic recession...so, what is your point exactly?

Perhaps you and the Japanese were the beneficiaries of western benevolence, but left to your own devices you've squandered much of that goodwill and support, only to be back at the bottom...

Phoenix
I think his/her point is that the Japanese were originally Greek,....comes from the old Greek word "Japanopoulous"

[Vangelovski]

...it hasn't exactly turned out as you had planned, your country is now that shit stain at the bottom of a toilet.

Maybe that's exactly how they planned it

[DraganOfStip]

The second leg of the elections was held today and initial results say the French public had joined against the National Front which failed to win in a single region.
In areas where the far-right was one of two candidates that won majority of votes in the 1at leg,the people supported the opposing candidate.
What seemed like a clear win for the far-right ended in the fiasco they deserve.
More here:

http://www.mkd.mk/svet/vesti/fijasko-na-ekstremnata-desnica-marin-le-pen-ne-pobedi-vo-nieden-region

Or for the non-Macedonian speakers here:

http://news.yahoo.com/french-far-fails-win-single-region-elections-estimates-190441942.html

[fatso]

[QUOTE=Phoenix;163622]...it hasn't exactly turned out as you had planned, your country is now that shit stain at the bottom of a toilet and even the hapless Japanese are locked into a perpetual cycle of economic recession...so, what is your point exactly?

Maggots like yourself are still around
?
I'm in Europe every other year. I frequent Greece and can tell you most live better than your average North American. As bad as Greece's economy is Albanians are still crossing the border to find work.

[fatso]

To be honest I can't think of ANYONE in Greece promoting the ethnic Macedonian identity in the 1950s. This is thought as a "dark" decade where the post-Civil War trauma is slowly cured, the last communist spies (Beloyiannis et al) are executed while others are imprisoned or exiled; the Communist Party is illegal and anti-communist hysteria is high.

At the same time Greece has (along with Japan) the highest economic growth in the world. So, what is your point exactly?

Since Tsipras has taken over , Greece has experienced a decline in all economic indicators. Stop talking out of your ass.

[Amphipolis]

Since Tsipras has taken over , Greece has experienced a decline in all economic indicators. Stop talking out of your ass.

I was refering to the 1950s.

[George S.]

That wad greeces big mistake.THejr debt is something that will last for generati ons.