Originally posted by Gocka
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U.S. Politics, Elections & Culture issues
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Last edited by Phoenix; 05-23-2017, 02:36 AM.
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Originally posted by Gocka View PostYou left out when I said his purported stances.....In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Okay I'll bite, but let me start off by saying that It think you are over thinking this a bit.
What I mean by purported is that I don't believe he knows or understands the difference between a policy or a pony. He doesn't have policies or stances as an individual, he repeats the last thing he heard that sounded good to him. So in that regard what ever stances he purports to hold are shallow and he doesn't really hold them.
What I meant by, I don't disagree with a MANY of them, but not all, is that some of the things he says are not wrong, some of the stances are not wrong. But again refer to the above. How can he implement things he doesn't understand nor really care about? Since when do any of us support that level of ignorance?
Now let me elaborate on why I don't like him as a person and partly answer your question about "liking" the person. I view the presidency as much more than a vehicle to pass laws through. The congress really takes on the burden of policy and laws. The presidency in my opinion, is more so about setting a good example, inspiring, uniting, to a degree facilitating the functioning of the government. The reason I dislike him so much is because his persona is the exact opposite of what I believe we want and expect our fellow citizens to be like. Add to that he genuinely doesn't seem like he knows anything other than a handful of things he found useful throughout his life, and how can you justify that he is fit for office? Just because he repeats like a parrot some talking points fed to him by his propagandists?
Now if you would indulge me as I have you and answer my questions
Do you think his behavior and demeanor is irrelevant given the position he holds?
Do you think he has genuinely informed views that are based on some sort of principles?
Finally this wouldn't have something to do with me purportedly saying you may have been guilty of being full of shit, would it
But seriously, I don't know what the coverage of Trump is like in Australia, but if you listen to him for more than a few minutes, its pretty obvious he's not very intelligent, has either shallow or no understanding at all on most issues, speaks like he hasn't gotten past the 3rd grade, has daddy approval complex, and just generally acts like a douche.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostThat's because you followed that line by stating that there are many of them which you don't disagree with. You now seem to be giving more emphasis to the adjective. Fine. Does that mean you think they only appear like policies or that they are false policies? If so, how can you agree, disagree or not disagree with them? And as you've failed to answer my previous question, let me rephrase it, would you rather somebody you like as a person but who has "purported" policies you don't support?
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I think its hard for people who have not been to the USA to understand the level of ignorance that exists. They finally got someone who in my opinion sounds and acts like a good chunk of Americans. They will learn why being able to make a lot of money doesn't mean you are good for anything else, why talking loudly doesn't mean you are right, or that you know what your talking about, that complex issues can't be solved through simplistic and bombastic rhetoric, that saying you are the best doesn't make you the best.
To me he epitomizes a large part of America who has always been told and believed that they were the best at everything. They finally realized that they are not the best, but with a big caveat, instead of just accepting that saying your the best doesn't make it true, now they just want to lash out and find someone to blame for knocking them off their game.
Originally posted by Phoenix View PostNicely reconciled Gocka, the acknowledgement that you've just made needs to be fully understood by the majority of Americans...for the first time in their chequered history, they have one of their own running the show...and looking in the mirror, is not what they like at the moment.
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Originally posted by Gocka View PostTo me he epitomizes a large part of America who has always been told and believed that they were the best at everything.Last edited by Bill77; 05-23-2017, 04:04 AM.http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873
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Originally posted by Gocka View PostOkay I'll bite, but let me start off by saying that It think you are over thinking this a bit.
Now if you would indulge me as I have you.......
Do you think his behavior and demeanor is irrelevant given the position he holds?
Do you think he has genuinely informed views that are based on some sort of principles?
Finally this wouldn't have something to do with me purportedly saying you may have been guilty of being full of shit, would itIn the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Patriotism is good, ignorance is bad.
Let me flip it this way. If the USA was dirt poor like Macedonia, what value do you think their belief in their superiority would have?
I do have to admit that Americans are actually pretty patriotic, superiority complex aside, they really do care about the country and a large portion I think would make the ultimate sacrifice if it were needed.
Originally posted by Bill77 View Postif only Macedonians had the same pride, mabe Macedonia wouldn't be in such a disarray. I see this as nothing more than patriotism which isn't such a bad thing and f..k what others think.
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Are you a lawyer be trade by any chance? Something about the way you express yourself gives me that impression.
I didn't find what I said ambiguous, maybe general but not ambiguous.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View PostI believe in the importance of clarity over ambiguity, of specificity over sensationalism. Some people think that's normal. Call me crazy.
I would rather have someone who I don't like, if they at least stood for things that I believe in, or in the case of a politician, policies I believe in.
Does that answer it?
You still haven't answered my original question, even after I added your "purported" qualifier. Let me know if you need more time.
Now who's overthinking it.
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Originally posted by Gocka View PostThey will learn why being able to make a lot of money doesn't mean you are good for anything else, why talking loudly doesn't mean you are right, or that you know what your talking about, that complex issues can't be solved through simplistic and bombastic rhetoric, that saying you are the best doesn't make you the best.
Just because some may pander to your (or my) particular ideological views and make sense for you, doesn't mean that they actually make sense or that they are able to solve anything or even that what you think may need solving is even actually a problem. Personally, I think there is very little difference between the vast majority of politicians and few are any better or worse than Trump.
Personally, my biggest issue with Trump is that he's not a conservative. He'll probably lean that way in most instances, but you can't trust a fart in the wind. I could go anywhere.If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Don't you think its dangerous for such an impressionable and ignorant person to have so much power?
I find it very hard to trust someone who doesn't really stand for anything. I think his entire worldview is based on the idea that right and wrong is totally dependent on what works for him in the moment. Everything is negotiable as long as it leads to some sort of benefit for him. Doesn't this clash with your view that right and wrong is objective?
I don't think he "leans" anywhere, or at least where he leans changes on a daily basis. Before he ran for president the few political views he expressed over the years were staunchly liberal.
Originally posted by Vangelovski View Post
Personally, my biggest issue with Trump is that he's not a conservative. He'll probably lean that way in most instances, but you can't trust a fart in the wind. I could go anywhere.
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Originally posted by Gocka View PostLet me flip it this way. If the USA was dirt poor like Macedonia, what value do you think their belief in their superiority would have? .
Greece. We might all laugh at them, but they have no Albanian issues (yet) or any other minority issues (as we keep hearing from them everyone is Greek) and I would be surprised if they have any mosque issues.http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=120873#post120873
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Originally posted by Gocka View PostDon't you think its dangerous for such an impressionable and ignorant person to have so much power?
I find it very hard to trust someone who doesn't really stand for anything. I think his entire worldview is based on the idea that right and wrong is totally dependent on what works for him in the moment. Everything is negotiable as long as it leads to some sort of benefit for him.
Originally posted by Gocka View PostDoesn't this clash with your view that right and wrong is objective?If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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Originally posted by GockaI would rather have someone who I don't like, if they at least stood for things that I believe in, or in the case of a politician, policies I believe in.
I can't stand the sight of him nor his illiterate voice and it has absolutely nothing to do with his purported political stances, many of which I don't disagree with.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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I felt the need to put that in there because I think i lean a little liberal and I wanted it to be known that my dislike and distrust for him goes a lot deeper that him pretending to be a conservative, that's all.
Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post...they could be excused for assuming you'd rather have Trump were it not for his fickleness on certain policies, unless of course you think the policies of the alternative candidate were better.
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Originally posted by Gocka View PostI felt the need to put that in there because I think i lean a little liberal and I wanted it to be known that my dislike and distrust for him goes a lot deeper that him pretending to be a conservative, that's all.
By the way, I am going to move the discussion relating to Trump to another thread.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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