Protests in Hong Kong

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  • Big Bad Sven
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1528

    Protests in Hong Kong

    Interesting development in Hong Kong with all these protests.

    If its true what is happening i support the students, the Chinese government has no right to dictate what happens in Hong Kong and set up puppet candidates.

    Could be a real defining moment in Chinese and Hong Kong history. I sadly predict if the protests keep happening and getting bigger China will lose patience and come in and 'clean up the mess'. Eventually Hong Kong will lose its unique charm and become a commie chinese city.

    Btw most chinese people i met in HK hate main land chinese. They come to HK with their rude and disgusting manners e.g. shitting in public, spitting in public, eating like pigs at restaurants. A lot of the new middle class from the main land migrate to HK as well and a lot of Hong Kong people feel like they are losing their identity and the city is crowded.
    It seems its like a tactic by China to eventually change the demography of HK in the next generation. Similar to what they are doing in the Uigher area of china,similar to what the shiptars are doing to macedonia.....

    This could be the era of China, reclaiming all of its 'lost' territories.

    It would be a shame if HK loses its charm, i have never been but also wanted to. Looks like it will just be a distant memory.
  • Big Bad Sven
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 1528

    #2
    Btw isnt it Ironic that the HK students are brave to take on the HK government and potentially China (world power) while macedonians are too scared (or lazy) to take on a weak 'macedonian' government or a bunch of shiptar mountain thugs LOLOLOLOLOL

    Comment

    • Phoenix
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 4671

      #3
      Already there are accusations of Triad involvement in disrupting the protest movement.

      It will be a good test of the One Country, Two Systems agreement signed by China and the UK and it's legitimacy.

      Comment

      • George S.
        Senior Member
        • Aug 2009
        • 10116

        #4
        the chinese govt is ruthless and eventually will have its way..They are really reclaiming lost territorries ,i don't think they going to give in to a bunch of students.If you know how communism works its not by giving in.
        "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
        GOTSE DELCEV

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          #5
          Hong Kong is exporting its protest techniques around the world

          By Mary Hui

          URL:


          The “Be Water” nature of Hong Kong’s protests—fluid, flexible, and fast-moving—has taken on a new form half way across the world in Catalonia: as a tsunami.

          After a Spanish court on Monday (Oct. 14) handed down lengthy jail terms to nine Catalan leaders for their roles in a 2017 secession attempt, tens of thousands of Catalans took to the streets to protest against what they saw as heavy-handed political persecution and blatant repression of the region’s political rights.

          The protesters were answering the call to action from a group called Tsunami Democràtic, which launched in September (link in Spanish) urging mass peaceful and civil disobedience actions in order to safeguard Catalonia’s freedoms. Following the sentencing, protesters quickly gathered at plazas and on streets across the region, cutting off major thoroughfares and blocking traffic before heading en masse to their next target: Barcelona’s El Prat airport. As they set off from the city center, a group of youth shouted, “We’re going to do a Hong Kong!“

          They were referring to what had happened at the Hong Kong airport almost exactly two months prior, when thousands of protesters forced the international transport hub to shut down. At Barcelona airport on Monday, strikingly similar scenes played out as thousands occupied both the terminal and the roads outside the building, eventually forcing the cancellation of at least 100 flights. Tsunami Democrátic even distributed some130 boarding passes (link in Spanish) via the messaging app Telegram so that protesters could enter the airport, in a move reminiscent of some Hong Kong protesters who purchased cheap flights in order to enter the airport and circumvent a court ban on demonstrations at the building.

          The months-long protests in Hong Kong have also been studied in Indonesia by students who took to the streets to oppose new laws, and Extinction Rebellion climate activists in the UK, but it is the Catalonia protests that appear to be most directly inspired by the Hong Kong playbook. For weeks, Catalan activists have examined the techniques of Hong Kong’s protesters closely, taking notes on what works and what might be successfully replicated in Catalonia. In late September, the grassroots group Assemblea Nacional Catalana even held a public forum titled, “Experiences of the use of new technologies in the nonviolent struggle: the case of Hong Kong.”

          “We have been inspired a lot by the Hong Kong protests, although we are aware of the differences between both societies,” a representative of Picnic x República (link in Catalan), a digital platform designed to mobilize Catalans for political action, told Quartz. “The Hong Kong people have done a very good job in letting everybody else know about their fight through social networks… These are the first lessons we have learned from them: the use of these tools to mobilize the people and keep them informed.”


          A page on Picnic x República’s website lists several Hong Kong protest-related Telegram channels (link in Catalan) as sources of inspiration and information, as well photos of Hong Kong protesters’ street-level organisation (link in Catalan). “The images and videos showing Hong Kongers’ discipline passing messages and goods all along the lines of action made a strong impression on us, although we are not sure we could achieve such perfection,” said the Picnic x República representative. “Maybe, with some time and practice!”

          Perhaps the strongest tactical link between the two protest movements is the focus on the Bruce Lee-inspired “Be Water” philosophy, which translates into unpredictable, creative, and agile protests that flow like water and move quickly throughout the city.

          Now, Catalan activists are similarly putting that thinking to use. On social media, Tsunami Democràtic has made use of the “Be Water” hashtag, and their call for everyone to be “a tsunami” quite literally embodies Bruce Lee’s philosophy in the flesh. Picnic x República has also embraced the importance of adapting quickly like water to changing situations, taking a page from Hong Kongers’ playbook by urging protesters to move fluidly in response to police actions and not to fixate on holding static positions.


          That the Hong Kong movement has been able to sustain protests for over four months and continue to command international attention also serves as a model for Catalonia. Writing in a column last month, the Barcelona-born journalist and political commentator Jordi Barbeta held up Hong Kong as an example (link in Catalan) of a movement that has successfully given a “global dimension to a local conflict.” Picnic x República is aware of the importance of being in the global spotlight, too, and has encouraged Catalans to use masks “like those used in Hong Kong”—not only to protect protesters’ identity from the authorities, but also “reinforce the international image” of Catalonia’s fight. In this sense, Catalan activists are emulating the distinctive and highly recognisable optics of Hong Kong protesters—hard hats, respirator masks, and umbrellas and other eclectic shields—as both a preventative and performative act.

          Beyond parallels in protest techniques, the Catalonia and Hong Kong movements share similarities in the nature of their struggles, said Joan Ramon Resina, a professor at Stanford University specializing in Spanish and Catalan literatures and cultures.

          “Dictatorships like the Chinese and the resurging Spanish one do not tolerate dissidence or even cultural difference,” he said. “Thus, what the Hong Kong and the Catalan challenges to authoritarian regimes have in common is their value as symptoms for the growing impatience of peoples around the world with political systems that sacrifice the rights of minorities for the sake of expanding their power.”


          Protestors close Barcelona Airport #Tsunamidemocratic 14 Oct 2019:
          Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
          Last edited by Carlin; 10-16-2019, 12:18 AM.

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15659

            #6
            Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
            Already there are accusations of Triad involvement in disrupting the protest movement.

            It will be a good test of the One Country, Two Systems agreement signed by China and the UK and it's legitimacy.
            Well, 5 years later, the agreement looks to be a joke.
            But then again, Australia is one of the punch lines with Gladys Liu as a federal politician. The Chinese aren't even playing the long game now. It is on. And idiots are protesting about the climate which is hilarious given the systematic destruction of our manufacturing industries. Let them go to China and protest.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Thorvald
              Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 145

              #7
              What buffles me is why Hongkong returned to China in the first place...the agreement of leasing HongKong made by the British empire and Imperial China, not by the communist state of China.
              https://germanictribes.proboards.com/
              European preservation

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15659

                #8
                P.R.China reminds me of Greece. Talk about 5000 years of history but has only been around for about 70 years.

                Interesting fact: Anyone seeking the highest qualifications in Traditional Chinese Medicine needs to go to Japan to learn it. PR China burned all their books and lost most of their identity.

                The republic of China is a different story though.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Thorvald
                  Member
                  • Jan 2009
                  • 145

                  #9
                  Yes I agree that China is overrated...

                  Personly Im not a big fan of China, nor its stuff they make. Made in China hasnt a very good reputation you know. Back in the day, when I grew up, things were Made in France, Made in Germany, Made in the UK, Made in Holland, and it was quality stuff. Now buy some toys for a kid and its broke very easily. While I still have many goodies from my youth, since it was made in Europe.
                  https://germanictribes.proboards.com/
                  European preservation

                  Comment

                  • Dove
                    Member
                    • Aug 2018
                    • 170

                    #10
                    why Hongkong returned to China
                    Interesting idea. I guess you need to look at the communist rule like a company takeover. The entity still exists, there is just a change in management. Presumably, HK may have been given independence if it had not been a lease. A practical consideration is that HK buys its water from China so it is extremely vulnerable.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15659

                      #11
                      Legally, I would say HK should revert to Taiwan (RoChina).
                      But then again, legally, Aegean Macedonia should revert to Macedonia.
                      And pigs fly south for winter.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13675

                        #12
                        RTG, you're the resident China expert, do you think this was a smart move by our PM?

                        When Scott Morrison declared Australia was suspending its extradition agreement with Hong Kong, it was simply the inevitable. But in the eyes of China, these were grave provocations, writes Stephen Dziedzic.

                        On Thursday Scott Morrison walked out into the Prime Minister’s courtyard and waded into fraught territory. He was unveiling Australia’s response to the Chinese Government’s crackdown on Hong Kong; particularly Beijing’s single-minded assault on the legal architecture that protects the liberties of those who live there. Mr Morrison announced his Government would offer safe haven to many Hong Kong students and graduates already living in Australia. Not only that, the Prime Minister declared Australia was suspending its extradition agreement with Hong Kong. Immediately. In the eyes of Australia, these announcements were simply the inevitable consequence of China’s decision to break the promise it made to the United Kingdom decades ago, when it told the departing colonial power it would preserve the city’s liberties for half a century. In the eyes of China, they were grave provocations.

                        But if the Prime Minister was trying to be provocative, it didn’t much look like it. His answers were studiously cautious and measured. Journalists asked him if China's crackdown endangered "One Country, Two Systems" — the principle that was meant to enshrine Hong Kong's freedoms. Mr Morrison's eyes repeatedly darted down to the paper in front of him. He read the words in front of him very, very carefully. Australia's decision to suspend the extradition treaty "represents an acknowledgement of the fundamental change of circumstances in relation to Hong Kong," Mr Morrison said, his gaze fixed to the page. The new security law imposed on the city by Beijing "undermines the One Country, Two Systems framework, and Hong Kong's own basic law and the high degree of autonomy guaranteed in the Sino-British Joint Declaration". In other words — yes. But when you’re dealing with the Chinese Communist Party, language matters. Precision matters. And when you're dealing with Hong Kong — a locus of the post-colonial resentments that still pulse through Chinese political life, and a frontline in the contest between ascendant authoritarianism and waning liberalism — it pays to be particularly precise.

                        Mr Morrison's announcements were hardly radical. The risks within were precisely calibrated. Each decision was framed as an exercise of Australian sovereignty. The push to take skilled migrants from Hong Kong was presented chiefly as a talent recruitment drive, not a mercy mission. Unlike the United Kingdom, Australia did not offer refuge to Hong Kong residents actually living in the city right now. Those who fear persecution and who might hope for a new life in Australia were effectively told they would have to join the queue. Not that this helped to spare Australia public excoriation from the Chinese Government, which responded with predictable fury. Australia was denounced from the podium of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Beijing, while the Chinese Embassy in Canberra intoned that the Federal Government was "dropping a rock on its own feet".

                        Chinese state media even declared the Morrison Government was pushing the relationship to "breaking point" with an editorial in the party mouthpiece the China Daily warning Australia was "not irreplaceable". It's difficult to say how much of this sound and fury is concocted, and how much of it stems from a genuine sense of grievance. And there's no real consensus in Canberra about what will happen next, just a great deal of uncertainty. Some fear China is willing to make good on its threats. They predict Beijing will respond by steadily ramping up cyber incursions, while rapidly expanding its campaign of economic punishment against Australian exporters. Anxieties about "hostage diplomacy" linger. But others in the bureaucracy and in Parliament House are becoming almost blasé about the stream of threats emanating from the Chinese Government. Bets are taken on which rococo insult will be included in the next angry missive from the embassy.

                        China, they argue, is already embroiled in a dizzying array of feuds with countries across the globe and is consumed by full-spectrum competition with the United States. It is feeling the pressure. Turning away Aussie beef or wine is one thing, but would Beijing really pick this moment to turn its back on the vast rivers of high-quality Australian iron ore and coal that are still crucial to parts of its economy? This may be a smart wager. Or it might be a terrible miscalculation. Either way, Mr Morrison and his key lieutenants seem to have decided that there can be no backing down with China — particularly not now. Perhaps they reason that weakness would only invite contempt, and likely more coercion. So they press on.
                        It is a high-wire act, and the stakes are immense. No wonder the Prime Minister is treading carefully.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Risto the Great
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 15659

                          #13
                          China is rewriting the rules for its own ends – the world cannot sit idly by




                          With the swift passage of the national security law, China's Communist Party leaders demolished the idea of Hong Kong's autonomy and, with it, Beijing's obligations under the 1984 Sino-British Joint Declaration and commitment to preserve the freedoms enjoyed by the Hong Kong people.

                          This action is only the most recent example of a pattern of behaviour where the Communist Party bends, disregards, or rewrites rules in its favour in the pursuit of domestic and geopolitical ends.

                          President Xi Jinping, more than any of his predecessors, has used this tactic to push an aggressive China-centric foreign policy. Xi's introduction of the "Chinese dream" in 2013 foreshadowed a more concerted effort by party leaders to regain global prominence.

                          Get the latest insights and analysis from our Global Impact newsletter on the big stories originating in China.

                          Since then, Xi has taken deliberate steps to increase China's economic, diplomatic and military clout with the clear intent of returning China to the centre of the global order.

                          The Communist Party's efforts, with Xi at the helm, to achieve geopolitical centrality, however, are as unstable as the sand on which many of their efforts are built. Rather than making headway, China is facing headwinds as party policies place the country firmly at odds with an international rules-based order that has yielded nearly 75 years of relative peace and increasing prosperity across the region.

                          The Communist Party's decision to ignore the rules and norms that have enabled nations to forge lasting economic, security and cultural bonds is a significant and costly oversight for the Chinese people, as it erodes the very foundation that all nations have benefited from.

                          So far, the Indo-Pacific region has borne the brunt of the Communist Party's disregard for international law and its one-sided policies, with illegal construction, militarisation and unsubstantiated territorial claims in the South China Sea, and increasing pressure on Taiwan and incursions of its airspace being prime examples.

                          But China's systemic theft of intellectual property, predatory economic behaviour " often serving as a back door for the Chinese military " across the Indo-Pacific and beyond, to places such as Africa, the Middle East, Latin America and Europe, and opaque tactics to extend its malign influence, prove that its ambitions are global.

                          Beijing's bold moves in the South China Sea: opportunism or the new normal?
                          Combating the Covid-19 pandemic commands global attention and unprecedented international cooperation, but we cannot allow China to use the crisis as a cover to pursue its parochial interests and advance its quest for global centrality.

                          That is why together, the United States, its allies and partners across the region and the world must focus efforts to safeguard our shared interests by being one, prepared; two, networked, and; three, resilient.

                          First and foremost, we need to remain focused on deterring aggression. As our national defence strategy stated: "The surest way to prevent war is to be prepared to win one." For the US, that has meant maintaining a ready and capable force, developing innovative operational concepts, and investing in capabilities that solidify our technological advantage, including in space and cyberspace.

                          For our allies and partners, we continue to encourage investment in the capabilities necessary for national defence, as well as in the means to contribute to the defence of our shared interests. Deepening our interoperability, joint training, combined exercises and bilateral planning are all things that improve our ability to act coherently and effectively together when it matters most.

                          Strong networks of allies and like-minded partners are also vital in providing a collective response to China's challenge to the international rules-based order. They represent a durable, asymmetric, strategic advantage that China simply does not have.

                          We need to build these networks by strengthening relationships and looking for opportunities to include new partners in new and existing bilateral, trilateral and multilateral arrangements.

                          How China's growing footprint puts it on a collision course with the US
                          Working together to address security concerns, such as the pandemic, countering violent extremism, joint maritime domain awareness efforts or responding to natural disasters, is another way to build these networks and, more importantly, the operational foundation for further cooperation.

                          Lastly, the Communist Party's challenge to the international-rules based order will be a marathon, not a sprint. Together, we must be resilient as we face this long-term challenge by continuing to uphold and represent core principles such as respect of sovereignty, transparency, peaceful resolution of disputes, and freedom of navigation and overflight.

                          Conducting freedom-of-navigation operations, joint operations, and calling out destabilising misinformation are just a few ways we can reinforce these principles. We must also protect our communications infrastructure and networks, economies, and political and social institutions from the Communist Party's malign influence, to preserve our shared interests and security.

                          The way in which China engages with the international community rests on the shoulders of the Communist Party. China's rise does not mean conflict is inevitable, nor does competition inevitably lead to conflict. But, competition must occur on a level playing field and all players need to abide by the same rules.

                          For the rules-based system to work, the international community cannot sit idly by as China's authoritarian leaders continue to bend, disregard or rewrite the rules to impose their preferences.

                          That is why now, more than ever, like-minded partners must take action by being prepared, networked and resilient so that together we can secure peace and prosperity for decades to come.

                          David F. Helvey is currently the Acting Assistant Secretary of Defence for Indo-Pacific Security Affairs. He is responsible for developing and overseeing the execution of the United States' defence and security policy in the Indo-Pacific region
                          The world does seem to be getting a little bit (more) annoyed with China as of late.
                          Risto the Great
                          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                          Comment

                          • Risto the Great
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 15659

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            RTG, you're the resident China expert, do you think this was a smart move by our PM?

                            https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...-kong/12446586
                            I will say it is an interesting move. Morrison appears to be the only person in the free world with some balls.

                            Effectively extradition to HK is now well and truly extradition to China. This link discusses the extradition to China in some detail:

                            https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary...20March%202016.

                            Without any doubt, the treaty falls over in a few fundamental aspects. Particularly in relation to the right to a fair trial (and related matters).

                            Australia had drafted an extradition agreement with China but never ratified it. Morrison was effectively stating the obvious in relation to the agreement with HK (Mk II) since the new "National Security Law".

                            I would say it was simply an obvious move which had to be done (preferably with as little fanfare as possible).
                            Risto the Great
                            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15659

                              #15
                              I gotta say I enjoy the hell this Cypriot is giving the University of Queensland. Back in my days, university was one of the few places you truly were freely able to speak. Even the police were reluctant to enter university grounds. Now, it is pathetically quite the opposite and only the students are to blame for this. They should be rioting!

                              This fella is fighting back.
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

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