Largest ancient tomb found of a prominent Macedonian

[Philosopher]

Expected, as Ancient Macedonian alphabet did not exist.

I would imagine, based on logical inference, that an ancient Macedonian alphabet would have to exist if there are ancient Macedonian words in existence, unless they used a foreign alphabet to convey original words in their language.

Either a primitive written language existed or the historic record documenting the ancient Macedonian written language has yet to be unearthed.

[Redsun]

Agamoi - The assumption that while Macedonians conquered almost the half of the known world of their time they gave up their own language in order to adopt a foreign one, just out of admiration to the advanced Greek civilization holds no water. Romans admired Greek civilization too yet they never gave up their language, instead they cultivated it to the highest degree.

Agamoi - “They gave up their own language in order to adopt a foreign one”

What logic did you use to make such a stupid comment? Who gave up their language? When? Where did you read this?

You don’t think that Aristotle would have warned the young prince?

Do you know what happens when an empire grows? Do you think when an empire is on a military conquest it has time to educate the citizen of the lands they have taken control of to speak the language of the conquerors within half a year or a year,?

How do you govern over a foreign land, how can you ensure full control over the tax collection within the land?

How long would have it taken for the Macedonians to implement tax laws and legislation if they didn’t use a language that the Easterners could understand?

Aristotle would have advised him to use a language know to people in the east, so control over the tax collection systems could be gained in shorter periods of time.

When the Macedonians marched though to Tyre, Alexander would have come across many examples of the Phoenician language. Not that he would have needed confirmation, thought it would have become obvious how similar the Phoenician language was compared to what the Athenians used.

It would be logical to use a similar dialect to the Phoenicians to communicate with them, why push Macedonian language on them; keep the tax collection and the economy moving. Why stall progress?

The Egyptians with all their conflicts against the Phoenicians during their long history would have had clear knowledge of the Phoenician language. They would have seen it many times and many elite Egyptians that could speak multiple languages would have known of the Phoenician language.

Once Egypt came under rule… why use a language or alphabet the Egyptians have never seen before?

If the Macedonian’s tried to implement their language it would have been a massive time consuming task, Macedonians respect other cultures and wouldn’t force their language on anyone, not like you.

Why do you Greeks throw this hellenization word around so often… honestly what have you Hellenized? You say many time the Macedonians Hellenized the known world… so what have you Greeks Hellenized?

Agamoi - So why should Macedonians replace Aramaic with Greek in those regions, when the various peoples of the Persian empire were for centuries accustomed to the use of the former and obligate them to learn an unknown language?

What a broad statement, where did you read this buddy? I agree that they changed the language of Administration, though the way you have worded your statement is as if the average citizen had to change their language.

Makes you wonder, what was Alexander thinking, I can only assume he wanted one language of Administration throughout the empire for easier control, easy communication, if it lasted it could have made a massive impact on the whole Mediterranean trade system as well.

I believe the Macedonians used that language for administration purely because of TAX.

[Vangelovski]

Αs long as all ancient Macedonian inscriptions that are discovered are written in Greek there is no reason to believe there existed a distinct Macedonian language.

If someone breathes in air that has passed over greece does that make them greek?

About 70 per cent of the worlds population, covering hundreds (if not thousands) of languages, uses a latin-based alphabet. Does that make their languages Roman? An idiot would say yes.

[George S.]

native greeks in amphipolis I doubt it ,what number did they number???.How many Macedonians resided??Macedonians were indigenous not greeks greeks were colonisers.
so how can one come up with so many weird assertions maybe some greeks but I doubt that the Aegean was majority greek it wasn't .I read that they were far outside greek outposts.You make it sound that it's some major discovery that the whole Aegean was greek.I found in some claims like these even today there's only hundreds of greeks at some of these so called declared outposts.So stop your generalising the truth
must be out that you are making it all sound so greek it wasn't .You are reaping Macedonian glory undeservedly.Oh look what we found its greek yeah bs.

[Gocka]

Lets not even get into the fact the these magical "Hellenes" magically forgot that they were "Hellenes" for 2000 years until the English and Germans had to remind them that they were in fact "Greek", oh and the million or so Turks that had to be taught to be Greek along with the few hundred thousand Macedonians that were forced to be Greek the few hundred thousand that were exiled or ran away, along with the million or so Albanians who became the biggest Greeks of them all. Had it not been for the Renaissance period gushing over ancient Greek philosophy, today's "Greeks" wouldn't be so Greek at all.

[Bill77]

I would imagine, based on logical inference, that an ancient Macedonian alphabet would have to exist if there are ancient Macedonian words in existence, unless they used a foreign alphabet to convey original words in their language.

Either a primitive written language existed or the historic record documenting the ancient Macedonian written language has yet to be unearthed.

Quite possibly so.

Re Macedonian alphabet would have to exist if there are ancient Macedonian words in existence

If I am understanding it properly, you are suggesting for one to have a language or learn a language, it must have a alphabet inorder to communicate this language? I don't think it is so.......I spoke Macedonian words before I knew and learnt Macedonian alphabet existed.

Let's look at history re other examples....there were many Native American tribes did not have written language until recently. Most Native American nations recorded information in various ways. Some of the recording systems can be seen as rock painting or elements in their art. Such as, beadwork and paintings.

Today there would still be tribes such as in the Amazon who would not have a written language, though still communicate by language and don't depend on written language (as in an alphabet) to express.

Why did the Ancient Macedonians adopt the Greek alphabet? Well that would have been once they became conquerors. To conquer and maintain order , one needs to communicate which plays part of maintaining power.

Why Greek though? From what I understand, It was the lingua franca at the time even used throughout the Persian empire before Alexander the Greats conquest. Ignore this fallacy Alexander spread it. There is a thread in this forum on why Alexander did not spread Hellenism if Agamoi Thytai is interested.

[Bill77]

Oh, I didn't read it nowhere, it's just my personal opinion.

oh ok then.
So you made it up...........

The problem is, so must have the "Lead" archaeologist Katerina Peristeri this "so called expert"

In March 2013, during the 26th Annual Scientific Meeting on Archaeological Works in Macedonia and Thrace which took place at Aristotle University in Thessaloniki.......
Enter Katerina Peristeri.
At the meeting, the Greek archaeologist has presented a discovery from 2012 that she claims throws a whole new light on this excavation. A bit like what you did a made up story.......a fantasy.

This is a huge problem not so much with what you say, but coming from someone that is a "so called" expert who is in charge of the archaeological works. The past can change the future in some instances, it is dangerous and a injustice to the fundamental purpose behind archaeology/discovery which is learning the truth. What we have here is claims by Katerina Peristeri that goes against logic, logic based on reports on historical events attested by historian Diodorus Siculus, which Peristeri, if she being a true and professional archaeologist should have been aware of and taken to consideration. On top of this, she is quick to conclude.....or suggest without even fully examining the site......they haven't entered this tomb yet. So why all this hype and so much of this preliminary reports hitting the media?

Nonetheless......it looks to be a major figure that this tomb was built for. Let's wait and see who it really belongs to that is on Macedonian soil now occupied by foreigners.

[George S.]

when did the so called hellenising take place.Or was it just made up myths and legends that tare still appropeiating under the guise of it being greeDince when was something macedonian in alexanders time called greek as the usurpers do today.There is a complete gloss over from reality as to who is who but they make their own distinction that there was greek and macedonian.Today they falsely try to reap what is not theirs.

[George S.]

their greek experts in archaelogy are going to stamp the greekness into macedonia a forhich negate their so called greekness of macedonia a foregone conclussion.WE see they don't want the world to know.Allready there are texts wlhich negate their claimsthey run but can't hide from the truth.We know the macedonians had their own language and alphabet pre dating the greeks.The greek claims are baseless.Don't forget there are differences of race.
There was a lot of tooing and throwing as they couldn't decide if the vergina tomb was actually phillips or a 4th century royalty.In the end it was like eeny meent mini mo.Despite what evidence they found.Some one said it was TOO fantastic to be greek.You just look at the intricate gold leaf they found and the craftmanship that proves the macedonians were far more advanced than they assumed.The greeks were not the only ones
skilled macedonians have honed their craft from prehistoric times.

[Poligiros]

Poli, I am born in R.Macedonia and only two steps from the modern greek border.

You can't tell me that the landscape in A.Macedonia hasn't changed markedly in the last 100 years. I'd say alot like what you'd see in my parts was the norm 100 years ago accross the border and right down to Salonika.
Come on man, now who's the comedian.

The whole Macedonian from Greece thing was invented within the last 100 years and it really gathered steam in the last 25 years.

Now my general statement is closer to the truth than yours. Statistics of population exchanges, name changes and policy changes go against you.

Stojacanec,

Yes, I did make generalisations previously, but it works both ways.

Once again you are basing your landscape arguments on the basis Pontians or "Christian Turks" that migrated to Aegean Macedonia during population exchanges as the only Hellenes residing in Aegean Macedonia.

You are neglecting the 40% approximate population of indigenous ethnic Hellenes that have always lived in the southern and eastern regions of Aegean Macedonia as have been posted previously (based on Ottoman stats and Bulgarian maps). Enemies to the Hellenic state would not be propagating those statistics in the favor of Greeks by any account.

What about the sizeable Turkish minority that lived in Aegean Macedonia, do you guys believe they were non-existent too?? You somehow think your people were the sole residents of Aegean Macedonia.

As for your part of RoMacedonia, don't forget the sizeable multicultural population of Bitola and other towns of present RoMacedonia:

(Wiki: Bitola’s population numbered some 50,000 at the end of the 19th century. There were around 7,000 Aromanians most of whom fully embraced the Hellenist ideas, 11,000 (Turks, Roma, and Albanians) as well Jewish commununity - 5,200. The Slavic-speakers were divided between the Bulgarian Exarchate - 8,000, and the Greek Patriarchate - 6,300)

As for the whole Greek Macedonian thing being invented in the last 100 years by the Greeks, who knows what we referred to ourselves as 100 years ago ??? Fact is we lived there and practiced Hellenic culture and were indigenous to the area.

Wiki also suggest your Macedonian ethnicity also started over 100 years ago too, in the late 1800s, does that make you any less Macedonian ?

regards,

[Philosopher]

Quite possibly so.

Re Macedonian alphabet would have to exist if there are ancient Macedonian words in existence

If I am understanding it properly, you are suggesting for one to have a language or learn a language, it must have a alphabet inorder to communicate this language? I don't think it is so.......I spoke Macedonian words before I knew and learnt Macedonian alphabet existed.

I think you are not understanding. You are conflating two different things. Here you are using "language" as in speech.

Let's look at history re other examples....there were many Native American tribes did not have written language until recently. Most Native American nations recorded information in various ways. Some of the recording systems can be seen as rock painting or elements in their art. Such as, beadwork and paintings.

Today there would still be tribes such as in the Amazon who would not have a written language, though still communicate by language and don't depend on written language (as in an alphabet) to express.

Here you are using language as in written language.

What I am arguing is that ancient Macedonian words--not loan words from Greek--but genuine Macedonian words are not pictures or hieroglyphics. They are of Indo-European origin. These words were formed from an alphabet. They would have to. All Indo-European words, as far as I know, follow this rule. So my point is either these words were formed using a Macedonian alphabet or a foreign alphabet.

I am not arguing that they could not verbally communicate without an alphabet. This is a separate issue altogether. What I am arguing is that if a written Macedonian language existed it would be based on some type of alphabet system.

[George S.]

ancient macedonians had both an alphabet and a language.Our alphabet is a prehistoric one .
The problem stems from the fact not much was written.Because of that the greeks chose to write about macedonians.Here is where they try and switcherroo by claiming they are greek we say they are not.The greeks of alexanders time did not understand macedonian it was a bable to them.

[Philosopher]

ancient macedonians had both an alphabet and a language.Our alphabet is a prehistoric one .
The problem stems from the fact not much was written.Because of that the greeks chose to write about macedonians.Here is where they try and switcherroo by claiming they are greek we say they are not.The greeks of alexanders time did not understand macedonian it was a bable to them.

Another possibility is that the ancient Macedonians left writings, but they are either lost or destroyed. Time will tell brother.

[George S.]

the macedonian language and our name is our secret weapon it proves who we are.If the greeks didn't appropriate macedonian history they got nothing only solon and pisistratus.Not much of a history.
Agamoi have a look at some of the videos on you tube about macedonian language and alphabet.I hear the MACEDONIAN ALPHABET IS THE BASE FOR VIRTUALLY all other PHONETIC indo european alphabets.YOU know you don't have aLEG to stand on.IS IGNORANCE REALLY BLISS.Simply ignoring something wont make it go away.
AS i said our EXISTENCE proves who we are all greeks can do is ignore us and negate our existence .WE know the greeks in reallity are NOT MACEDONIANS.So the fact is the macedonian language existed and the people existed and exist that is living proof.On the other hand the greeks are lying and are fakes with their fake identity.At one stage they thought themselves as achaens,hellenes,daanians,and even Romans ROMAOI.THey cant make up their mind who they are.Undeniable fact the greeks are relative newcomers to the greek peninsula.THeir existence with the SO CALLED CLASSICAL GREEK does not connect as the previous people were different and the greeks assimilated and tried to imitate them.WE know they are nothing but hybrid FAKES.
Also AGAMOI you are turkic sounding name what are you doing on a macedonian forum presenting BS archaelogical stuff to us macedonians.Don't you think its a bit rich doing that on a foreign forum.
I know for a fact i have had FEEDBACK from various people that a lot of the digs are under wraps as the greek govt decides on the go how they can carefully calculate to use the archaelogical digs to their advantage.I have friends who inform me that a lot of falsifying misrepresentation is going on .The greelk govt will go to any lengths to fake things.To make it all seem greek.YOu can't fool the educated they know what is BS from the non BS.You got a hide coming onto our forum saing things like alexander spread hellenism and greek culture and spread the greek language.This pure and utter bullshit and you should know it.Hellenism ENDED with the subjugation of greece by alexander.Al;exander if anything spread macedoniasm and NOT GREEK.THat should be obvious .You are kidding yourselves if you think otherwise.THe whole thing has got Yto do with who people are.ou are not even hellenes.If one looks at the timeline .The first to arrive were the Achaens around 3000 BC then the hellenes arrived around 800 bc thats when there was the trojan war.Macedonia could not fight in it as it was only greeks.Macedonia was a kingdom where as the greeks were city states.In contrast to maccedonia the greek city states were constantly fighting with each other never unified until 1832 2000 years later.Agamoi just shut up as you don't even know your history.Macedonia was never greek.
So you think today a turkic greek transplant from the population exchanges in the 1920's can claim they were related to alexander the great.?

[Kalle]

the macedonian language and our name is our secret weapon it proves who we are.If the greeks didn't appropriate macedonian history they got nothing only solon and pisistratus.Not much of a history.
Agamoi have a look at some of the videos on you tube about macedonian language and alphabet.I hear the MACEDONIAN ALPHABET IS THE BASE FOR VIRTUALLY all other PHONETIC indo european alphabets.YOU know you don't have aLEG to stand on.IS IGNORANCE REALLY BLISS.Simply ignoring something wont make it go away.
AS i said our EXISTENCE proves who we are all greeks can do is ignore us and negate our existence .WE know the greeks in reallity are NOT MACEDONIANS.So the fact is the macedonian language existed and the people existed and exist that is living proof.On the other hand the greeks are lying and are fakes with their fake identity.At one stage they thought themselves as achaens,hellenes,daanians,and even Romans ROMAOI.THey cant make up their mind who they are.Undeniable fact the greeks are relative newcomers to the greek peninsula.THeir existence with the SO CALLED CLASSICAL GREEK does not connect as the previous people were different and the greeks assimilated and tried to imitate them.WE know they are nothing but hybrid FAKES.
Also AGAMOI you are turkic sounding name what are you doing on a macedonian forum presenting BS archaelogical stuff to us macedonians.Don't you think its a bit rich doing that on a foreign forum.
I know for a fact i have had FEEDBACK from various people that a lot of the digs are under wraps as the greek govt decides on the go how they can carefully calculate to use the archaelogical digs to their advantage.I have friends who inform me that a lot of falsifying misrepresentation is going on .The greelk govt will go to any lengths to fake things.To make it all seem greek.YOu can't fool the educated they know what is BS from the non BS.You got a hide coming onto our forum saing things like alexander spread hellenism and greek culture and spread the greek language.This pure and utter bullshit and you should know it.Hellenism ENDED with the subjugation of greece by alexander.Al;exander if anything spread macedoniasm and NOT GREEK.THat should be obvious .You are kidding yourselves if you think otherwise.THe whole thing has got Yto do with who people are.ou are not even hellenes.If one looks at the timeline .The first to arrive were the Achaens around 3000 BC then the hellenes arrived around 800 bc thats when there was the trojan war.Macedonia could not fight in it as it was only greeks.Macedonia was a kingdom where as the greeks were city states.In contrast to maccedonia the greek city states were constantly fighting with each other never unified until 1832 2000 years later.Agamoi just shut up as you don't even know your history.Macedonia was never greek.
So you think today a turkic greek transplant from the population exchanges in the 1920's can claim they were related to alexander the great.?

I wonder when the secret weapon will be displayed to the global scene?

Dont be so harsh on the Greeks. Where ever they go they see the propaganda that ancient Macedonians where Greeks. If they watch documentaries from world famous tv stations like BBC or national geographic. Or when they visit world famous museums like British or Louvren. Or when they visits the very best universities in the world like Oxford , Cambridge , Yale and Stanford. Every where they will be exposed to the propaganda that ancient Macedonians where Greeks.

I have yet not seen the secret weapon on the rosetta stone that is located in British museum. When that happens we are talking about an atomic bomb. Any progress on that?
Maybe it is time to send out Risto , Donski and Kuzman on a secret mission and reveal the secret weapon. Everyone likes a good show.