Largest ancient tomb found of a prominent Macedonian

[Philosopher]

This is like having the fox guard the hen house.

[Amphipolis]

Is the greek media like the free press?
Sre they able to report clearly without kexposing the govt line.SOme media may turn a blind eye.THe public have a right to know.

Uh, yes there’s free press in Greece. Did you fall from space or something?

The Greek media basically contain:
(a) major or minor professional media including newspapers, radio, TV channels and news websites
(b) amateurs and individuals with websites, blogspots or forums similar to this one

There’s no "government line" regarding the excavation.

[Nikolaj]

Uh, yes there’s free press in Greece. Did you fall from space or something?

The Greek media basically contain:
(a) major or minor professional media including newspapers, radio, TV channels and news websites
(b) amateurs and individuals with websites, blogspots or forums similar to this one

There’s no "government line" regarding the excavation.

Implying they don't know about the naming dispute. You'd be a fool to deny this is partially politically motivated.

If you don't believe me, look at the comments below in every article regarding the tombs reveal.

[Amphipolis]

Implying they don't know about the naming dispute. You'd be a fool to deny this is partially politically motivated.

If you don't believe me, look at the comments below in every article regarding the tombs reveal.

There’s NO government line regarding the excavation.

There IS a government line regarding the name dispute.

It’s not clear HOW the excavation and the name dispute are connected. The findings (in number and importance) are not over yet and we don’t really know if we’re at the beginning, the middle or close to the end. Nevertheless, THERE ARE some important findings already.

Do you think they’re related to the name dispute and if so, how?

[Nikolaj]

There’s NO government line regarding the excavation.

There IS a government line regarding the name dispute.

It’s not clear HOW the excavation and the name dispute are connected. The findings (in number and importance) are not over yet and we don’t really know if we’re at the beginning, the middle or close to the end. Nevertheless, THERE ARE some important findings already.

Do you think they’re related to the name dispute and if so, how?

Look at your media. 'Greek tomb' isn't the same as 'Unknown tomb located in Greece'. This itself motivates the interpretation that the findings are Greek in the first place.

Anyways,

Let me give you a hypothetical example.
If they were to find an unidentifiable inscription, even if we make sure it's not 'politically motivated', do you think they'd report the finding to the public?
What would Greek politicians say about about defying the 'Greekness' of Macedonia, even if the tomb was evidently Macedonian through symbolism.

[Amphipolis]

Look at your media. 'Greek tomb' isn't the same as 'Unknown tomb located in Greece'. This itself motivates the interpretation that the findings are Greek in the first place.

Anyways,

Let me give you a hypothetical example.
If they were to find an unidentifiable inscription, even if we make sure it's not 'politically motivated', do you think they'd report the finding to the public?
What would Greek politicians say about about defying the 'Greekness' of Macedonia, even if the tomb was evidently Macedonian through symbolism.

It’s not definite or official yet, because it’s too early, but you have probably heard about the Peristeri- Palagia dispute and other archaeologists’ opinions. After the discovery of a pebble mosaic and a marble door the dominant view is that this is a Macedonian Tomb, not a Roman Monument. We don’t know why Peristeri insists on dating it at 325-300 BC, so the period seems less certain.

This isn’t MY opinion, I haven’t formed one yet. Unlike most Greeks, I don’t hate Palagia, I have met her, like her and respect her. It was wrong oh her behalf that she spoke with arrogance and irony. These were not her exact words, but she more or less implied that any student would clearly see this is not Macedonian but Roman. I notice she’s very silent lately.

Greece is full of both Macedonian and Roman tombs and as far as I understand this isn’t only a matter of the era, or the dead person, but also a matter of style.

If ANY inscription or coin is found that would be great, because it would easily determine the time and hopefully the identity of the dead.

If an unidentified inscription is found in the tomb, that would be even more important than anything else and it would have to be deciphered and studied. I just have to notice that no unidentified inscriptions of classical-Hellenistic-Roman era have been found anywhere (around the Balkans or Asia Minor). At least, I’ve never heard of something like that.

[Nikolaj]

It’s not definite or official yet, because it’s too early, but you have probably heard about the Peristeri- Palagia dispute and other archaeologists’ opinions. After the discovery of a pebble mosaic and a marble door the dominant view is that this is a Macedonian Tomb, not a Roman Monument. We don’t know why Peristeri insists on dating it at 325-300 BC, so the period seems less certain.

This isn’t MY opinion, I haven’t formed one yet. Unlike most Greeks, I don’t hate Palagia, I have met her, like her and respect her. It was wrong oh her behalf that she spoke with arrogance and irony. These were not her exact words, but she more or less implied that any student would clearly see this is not Macedonian but Roman. I notice she’s very silent lately.

Greece is full of both Macedonian and Roman tombs and as far as I understand this isn’t only a matter of the era, or the dead person, but also a matter of style.

If ANY inscription or coin is found that would be great, because it would easily determine the time and hopefully the identity of the dead.

If an unidentified inscription is found in the tomb, that would be even more important than anything else and it would have to be deciphered and studied. I just have to notice that no unidentified inscriptions of classical-Hellenistic-Roman era have been found anywhere (around the Balkans or Asia Minor). At least, I’ve never heard of something like that.

Those era's had trade languages in use, it's obvious to why you wouldn't... but lets talk prior to those anyways, unseen continuity of certain script may occur. E.g. a script written in the early Thracian period: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitovo_inscription

But that's besides the point, I said it was a hypothetical example.

You are walking around my question. E.g. Yes, of course finding a script would lead to the identification of the tomb and give us much more information about the past; this would be a fantastic find - this would not play any role within the naming dispute and most importantly, was not my question.

My question is, lets say something insane, (remember hypothetical) like... An inscription with the sentence beginning with: Hellenes, Macedonians, Persians etc.. This would point to a distinction, thus defy the 'Greekness' of the Macedonians, how would Greek politicians react to this?

[Amphipolis]

My question is, lets say something insane, (remember hypothetical) like... An inscription with the sentence beginning with: Hellenes, Macedonians, Persians etc.. This would point to a distinction, thus defy the 'Greekness' of the Macedonians, how would Greek politicians react to this?

That would depend on each politician and also on the content and language of the inscription. A generic answer is that they would have a similar stance/interpretation to the one they already have towards similar ancient texts (if there are any).

[Nikolaj]

That would depend on each politician and also on the content and language of the inscription. A generic answer is that they would have a similar stance/interpretation to the one they already have towards similar ancient texts (if there are any).

So if it were written in Koine and there was a clear Hellenic, Macedonian, Persian etc distinction. You would:

1) Trust the archeologists to reveal this information even though it is detrimental to their countries historical influence, whole Macedonian region, influence on the naming dispute and general historic-tourist attraction.
- This is equivalent to a teacher speaking against communism in the Soviet Union.

2) Yes, I guess it would depend on each politician. For the ones that would have a negative stance, what do you think they'd say?
- There have been previous cases of Greeks denying the Greekness of Macedonia, I could find the articles if you please but i'm sure you're familiar with them. I remember they said he wasn't worthy enough of even being called a Greek; or something along those lines.


Key note: You have to remember, denying the Greekness of Macedonia isn't equivalent to denying the tomb to be Greek but instead Roman. The hate on her is clearly evident for something small, imagine something much larger, in this case?

[Amphipolis]

So if it were written in Koine and there was a clear Hellenic, Macedonian, Persian etc distinction. You would:

1) Trust the archeologists to reveal this information even though it is detrimental to their countries historical influence, whole Macedonian region, influence on the naming dispute and general historic-tourist attraction.
- This is equivalent to a teacher speaking against communism in the Soviet Union.

The role of an archaeologist is to reveal things, not cover them up. Yes, the leading archaeologist will publicize all results (in newspapers, scientific articles, conference announcements or even TV interviews), but she’s not alone in the excavation; there are more than 50 people with various roles and nothing can be covered, falsified, added or removed easily. It can only be interpreted.

I don’t mind discussing extreme hypothetical cases, but I still can’t see how an inscription can “influence the naming dispute and general historic-tourist attraction” (!!). To start with, inscriptions are rare in Macedonian Tombs and are considered a blessing. In Philip’s Tomb only a 6-letter name (Mahata) was found on a precious colander and was enough for important arguments and counter-arguments.

2) Yes, I guess it would depend on each politician. For the ones that would have a negative stance, what do you think they'd say?
- There have been previous cases of Greeks denying the Greekness of Macedonia, I could find the articles if you please but i'm sure you're familiar with them. I remember they said he wasn't worthy enough of even being called a Greek; or something along those lines.

Key note: You have to remember, denying the Greekness of Macedonia isn't equivalent to denying the tomb to be Greek but instead Roman. The hate on her is clearly evident for something small, imagine something much larger, in this case?

That’s interesting. I didn’t know there are Greek politicians that deny the Greekness of Macedonia and I can’t guess who you’re talking about. The Rainbow Party?

[Amphipolis]

A representation of the Sphinxes



Someone else solved the mystery with the missing part of the mosaic

[Nikolaj]

The role of an archaeologist is to reveal things, not cover them up. Yes, the leading archaeologist will publicize all results (in newspapers, scientific articles, conference announcements or even TV interviews), but she’s not alone in the excavation; there are more than 50 people with various roles and nothing can be covered, falsified, added or removed easily. It can only be interpreted.

I don’t mind discussing extreme hypothetical cases, but I still can’t see how an inscription can “influence the naming dispute and general historic-tourist attraction” (!!). To start with, inscriptions are rare in Macedonian Tombs and are considered a blessing. In Philip’s Tomb only a 6-letter name (Mahata) was found on a precious colander and was enough for important arguments and counter-arguments.

From what i've heard it's only Greek archeologists on site and some Albanians, I assume are only there for excavation purposes and not really 'in' on the archeological advancements.

Ok, you seem to not understand.
Greek politicians and people have previously used archeological evidence to prove the 'Greekness' of the Macedonians. If newly found archeological advancements worked against that same 'Greekness', you are absolutely sure the Greek archeologists would reveal it? Are you absolutely sure on this?

These hypothetical questions aren't actually absurd and meaningless, they arise situations where the honesty of these archeologists can be identified.

Amphipolis, for future reference, I do respect you as a person, if you think i'm attacking you in any way I am not.

Also personally, I find it very strange that all the Macedonian tombs found in Greece lack proper inscription. To me this screams lack of honesty, but then again it could be very true that Macedonian tombs in general lack inscriptions.

That’s interesting. I didn’t know there are Greek politicians that deny the Greekness of Macedonia and I can’t guess who you’re talking about. The Rainbow Party?

I never said there were politicians who denied the Greekness of Macedonia, I said Greeks not Greek politicians. The Greek guy from what I remember was a historian. Just for you Amphipolis, i'll find you it because it's somewhere on the surface of the history section. After I come back from uni later today of course as i'm about to leave


Also Amphipolis, could you explain about the missing part of the Mosaic and is the Greek writing on that photo of any relevance?

[Tomche Makedonche]

If they were to find an unidentifiable inscription, even if we make sure it's not 'politically motivated', do you think they'd report the finding to the public?
What would Greek politicians say about about defying the 'Greekness' of Macedonia, even if the tomb was evidently Macedonian through symbolism.

My question is, lets say something insane, (remember hypothetical) like... An inscription with the sentence beginning with: Hellenes, Macedonians, Persians etc.. This would point to a distinction, thus defy the 'Greekness' of the Macedonians, how would Greek politicians react to this? .

I suppose one possible scenario is that they would remove that section of the find in a large circular fashion, state that the section was missing when discovered without any knowledge/ideas as to why, and then claim that they have conveniently found “most” of the missing section nearby and are in the process of “restoring” as much of it as they can…

[Nikolaj]

I suppose one possible scenario is that they would remove that section of the find in a large circular fashion, state that the section was missing when discovered without any knowledge/ideas as to why, and then claim that they have conveniently found “most” of the missing section nearby and are in the process of “restoring” as much of it as they can…

Hahaha Tomche, the amount of times i've heard this from Greek archeologists. It can be true though, something that old doesn't necessarily mean it'll be mint condition when we find it, but common.

[George S.]

so what happens to the gold wreaths deemed priceless they are going to sell them.??Gold masks etc.