Republic of Macedonia's EU and NATO Strategies

[makedonche]

Poligiros

Hang on a minute. "Macedonians fit into a common liguistic and cultural identity"??? From all information, artefacts, historical findings etc - Myself and Hellenic speakers can read ancient Macedonian text.

This is the dillusional part I was referring to, you obviously have a healthy dose.....more than likely overdosed!
As for you being able to read ancient Macedonian text....refer previous sentence!
You imbeciles don't even know what Staro Makedonsko is and if you do, as you claim to, explain in detail how it is read.........otherwise feel free to F*#k off to a Greek forum where you'll fit in well with the rest of your dillusionalists!

[Poligiros]

It is not ancient Macedonian text you are reading. It's ancient greek

Dejan,

I am related to the most hardcore Macedonians. They will tell you that the ancient Macedonian text was a dialect of ancient Greek. Even your own historians will concur along those lines. They will then tell me that language does not define ethnicity, and Macedonians are not Hellenes.

Just trying to determine why you feel the need to exclusively claim the Macedonian heritage (based on liguistic group) when there are various cultural groups (including Roman) that have lived in Macedonia through the ages.

[spitfire]

Spitfire

I'm not surprised, I'm sure you can hear many things in the air, not excluding your direct lineage to the ancient Greeks!

That was my original question. How do you define lineage through litres or Kilos of generations, but you prefered to play the cosa nostra card.

Oh, well I can read their texts without translation. That's some kind of lineage, at least a cultural one.

I can even understand lyrics of songs from some areas of Italy too, still without translation. Just by using my native tongue.
Now you 're even more puzzled.

[Risto the Great]

How many generations of macedonian offsprings does it take for a family's offsprings to be regarded macedonian?

A better question is how many generations does it take for former Christian Turkish nationals to form a Greek national identity which somehow tries to claim a Macedonian identity as some sort of collateral prize.

I say she should pick one identity (or at least one at a time).

What are "slavic" looks? I defy any Greek to define it.

It is not ancient Macedonian text you are reading. It's ancient greek

Correct. I wish the Greeks would stop lying about this kind of stuff.

[Risto the Great]

I can even understand lyrics of songs from some areas of Italy too, still without translation. Just by using my native tongue.
Now you 're even more puzzled.

I can understand fat Russians sometimes. It doesn't puzzle me much.

[Phoenix]

Hang on a minute. "Macedonians fit into a common liguistic and cultural identity"??? From all information, artefacts, historical findings etc - Myself and Hellenic speakers can read ancient Macedonian text.

So, the millions of Hellenic natives (including Istanbul), who are able to identify with an ancient Macedonian language and culture does not make them Macedonian, because they do not fit into the modern Macedonian language criteria? Seems illogical??

As for defending the vile comments on this thread, I am sure none of you would be impressed if someone wrote those disgusting things about your sister, wife etc. just because one doesnt agree with your political views?

Regards,

You've missed the point by a minimum of 450kms or a maximum of 900kms...

The Macedonians all shared a common language and culture within your '450km Radius' argument.
The orthodox Christians of Istanbul were hardly even considered 'greek', let alone having the remotest identity of 'Macedonian'.

What you're suggesting is simply preposterous.
Surely you're aware of the lengths that the Greek govt undertook with the resettled orthodox Christians to make them more 'greek'...

Why did the Greek govt go to such extraordinary lengths to 'hellenize' both the Macedonians and the orthodox Christians of Istanbul and further afield...?

Perhaps you need to ask your grandparents about this...

[Dejan]

I am related to the most hardcore Macedonians. They will tell you that the ancient Macedonian text was a dialect of ancient Greek.

This is complete bullshit, and if you were really related to any Macedonians, they would not say anything along those lines.

Even your own historians will concur along those lines. They will then tell me that language does not define ethnicity, and Macedonians are not Hellenes.

Genuine historians would say it is ancient greek. They wouldn't say it is ancient macedonian, as they honestly don't know. You're trying to generalise.

Just trying to determine why you feel the need to exclusively claim the Macedonian heritage (based on liguistic group) when there are various cultural groups (including Roman) that have lived in Macedonia through the ages.

No one else can claim this, except the ethnic Macedonians. Not even you people consider yourselves as ethnic Macedonians, more like Macedonians by geography. I don't 'claim' anything, my family history tells me I am Macedonian.

[spitfire]

A better question is how many generations does it take for former Christian Turkish nationals to form a Greek national identity which somehow tries to claim a Macedonian identity as some sort of collateral prize.

I say she should pick one identity (or at least one at a time).

What are "slavic" looks? I defy any Greek to define it.

I don't know why you are asking me this. That's my question too. How many generations does it take?

I can understand fat Russians sometimes. It doesn't puzzle me much.

Exactly. This means that there are cultural bonds through language.

For instance I find it quite amazing to read ancient greek from a few thousand years ago and discover at the same time that they apply on my everyday language.
It almost makes you feel you could discuss the points of the ancient writers if they were alive today face to face.
It's fun. Maybe you should try it.

[Risto the Great]

For instance I find it quite amazing to read ancient greek from a few thousand years ago and discover at the same time that they apply on my everyday language.
It almost makes you feel you could discuss the points of the ancient writers if they were alive today face to face.
It's fun. Maybe you should try it.

I wonder how much you would have understood had it not been for the katharevousa program over so many years. I know my cousins barely understand the ancient texts. But they all had books showing text in modern vs ancient Greek on opposite pages.

Imagine if we all looked at the proto Indo European language and shared even more with our brothers all around the world! Even better.

[George S.]

who determines who is macedonian or not WE DO.The reason is we know what went on don't we.Someone called greece stole our lands now its taking our identity.So those that know what the greeks have done have determined that there are NO greek macedonians.There are only Macedonian macedonians (endopi).
Do you know that the greek govt can't call its next door neighbour macedonia and prefers to call it SKOPJE instead.It can't call this country macedonia on the un THe FYROM.How ridiculous is that???So if you come on our forum and want to argue with us sioronada dudes.We will not accept your brand of macedonian so don't argue as you are indoctrinated by your greek govt propaganda machine..

[spitfire]

I wonder how much you would have understood had it not been for the katharevousa program over so many years. I know my cousins barely understand the ancient texts. But they all had books showing text in modern vs ancient Greek on opposite pages.

Imagine if we all looked at the proto Indo European language and shared even more with our brothers all around the world! Even better.

What Katharevousa programs? I didn't go to school that far back. And besides Katharevousa did not produce anything new in the language and it is not used today.

You don't seem to know a lot about greek.

I can use every greek word in the ancient texts today. Do you know why? Because I find them in synthesis. Do you know what synthesis means?
It means that you can find this word in your language in synthetics even if you don't use that very word.

We say "porta" for door which is an italian word, but use every other related to the meaning of the door words that correspond to the ancient greek "thyra" which means door.
We don't say "portatelephono" we say "thyrotelephono" for the intercom.

In case you missed it. The Italians use telephono from tele (far) and phono (voice). All perfect greek words.

Your cousins simply do not use this method. I know. In school they seem to make us hate the greek language rather than teach us all the interesting stuff.
Pure scholar snobs.

[Risto the Great]

What Katharevousa programs? I didn't go to school that far back. And besides Katharevousa did not produce anything new in the language and it is not used today.

Are you sure about that? Wasn't Katharevousa finally abandoned in the seventies?

Notwithstanding this, I am very confident you need to look at Greek before about 1850 and Greek after 1850.

You don't seem to know a lot about greek.

I can use every greek word in the ancient texts today. Do you know why? Because I find them in synthesis. Do you know what synthesis means?
It means that you can find this word in your language in synthetics even if you don't use that very word.

We say "porta" for door which is an italian word, but use every other related to the meaning of the door words that correspond to the ancient greek "thyra" which means door.
We don't say "portatelephono" we say "thyrotelephono" for the intercom.

In case you missed it. The Italians use telephono from tele (far) and phono (voice). All perfect greek words.

Your cousins simply do not use this method. I know. In school they seem to make us hate the greek language rather than teach us all the interesting stuff.
Pure scholar snobs.

My cousins are just punters in Greece trying to earn a dollar like the rest of us. Definitely not scholars. When they say they don't understand all the ancient stuff, I believe them. Some also even say they are proud Greeks too (much to my annoyance). Go figure.

Oh, I can use synthesis too. But I am not Greek.

[Dejan]

The muddier the waters, the more the greeks think they have a case

[spitfire]

Are you sure about that? Wasn't Katharevousa finally abandoned in the seventies?

Notwithstanding this, I am very confident you need to look at Greek before about 1850 and Greek after 1850.

Yes in 1974 I think. I wasn't going to school at the time.

You seem to confuse Katharevousa and demotiki as them being different languages from ancient greek.

Here's an example of a word from Katharevousa that was abandoned and the ancient word was used in demotic, hence today. "Ψάρι" means fish in greek. The scholars of katharevousa tried to "purify" that word and made it "οψάριον" because it resembled in this way a more formal way of saying it.
Well, that was very funny because they could use the ancient word "Ιχθύς". This word is used today. We may say "ψάρι" for fish but we can't say "ψαροκαλλιέργεια" for fish farming. We say "Ιχθυοκαλλιέργεια"

I can give you as many examples you want in this, provided it is a greek word.

"Αβγό" means egg. "Ωόν" is the ancient greek word. We say "Ωοθήκες" for ovaries.

Bottle, eye, clothes... I can come up with hundreds of examples.

My cousins are just punters in Greece trying to earn a dollar like the rest of us. Definitely not scholars. When they say they don't understand all the ancient stuff, I believe them. Some also even say they are proud Greeks too (much to my annoyance). Go figure.

Oh, I can use synthesis too. But I am not Greek.

Of course you can use synthesis. That's how you understood those fat russians. If you do it methodically then you'd understand more.

I wasn't referring to your cousins when I said snob scholars, but to their teachers. Their snobbiness is reflected elsewhere too. I had quite a few dissagreements with my bosses and the Kids' parents in the past. You see there is a way to teach everything, but the method required differs significantly.
We can't use this method in teaching english. We'll have to use another approach for vocabulary. Flashcards for instance. Especially when teaching it as a foreign language. We need to take into consideration how the cognitive and incognitive skills of the students work and bind that with the case we are teaching.

[Nikolaj]

You guys weren't aware that learning how to speak Greek proves you're an ancient Athenian? Guys! Please!