Republic of Macedonia's EU and NATO Strategies

[George S.]

spitfire i'm dissapointed in you you are waffling on and have not answered my question.
Not just this but you talk about Only macedonians were slavs.This is bs .How about the greeks themselves were also slavs because they too were influnced as well.Also if someone is slightly linguistically influence quick we better rename them to slavs.The bulgarians were slavs.The albanians and serbs etc.Still think we are just slavs Thats because YOU HAVE STUPID IDEAS.ALL taught by your greek govt propaganda machine.
SPIFIRE STOP BULLSHITTING on this forum.WE DON"T ACCEPT THAT we are JUST SLAVS.WE are just macedonians.

[Nikolaj]

You do? Thank you very much.

Show me where those data speak about self determination when they refer to slavs and Bulgarian characteristics.

All good Spitfire, i'm glad you enjoy basking within your contradiction and hypocrisy.

The data does not speak about self determination much like the volume of Alexander I claiming to be a Hellene. Your point?

Are you going to admit your contradiction and selective perception? Or witty yourself out of it by ignoring it like your government?

[spitfire]

spitfire i'm dissapointed in you you are waffling on and have not answered my question.
Not just this but you talk about Only macedonians were slavs.This is bs .How about the greeks themselves were also slavs because they too were influnced as well.Also if someone is slightly linguistically influence quick we better rename them to slavs.The bulgarians were slavs.The albanians and serbs etc.Still think we are just slavs Thats because YOU HAVE STUPID IDEAS.ALL taught by your greek govt propaganda machine.
SPIFIRE STOP BULLSHITTING on this forum.WE DON"T ACCEPT THAT we are JUST SLAVS.WE are just macedonians.

What was the question and who told you that you are not macedonians?

It's the data we discuss, on the basis of them proving something.

[spitfire]

All good Spitfire, i'm glad you enjoy basking within your contradiction and hypocrisy.

The data does not speak about self determination much like the volume of Alexander I claiming to be a Hellene. Your point?

Are you going to admit your contradiction and selective perception? Or witty yourself out of it by ignoring it like your government?

No. One case is about self determination, the other case is about determination without the self prefix.
Get your reading straight.

[Nikolaj]

No. One case is about self determination, the other case is about determination without the self prefix

Incorrect, as usual.

The people who did the census are the ones who labelled the population as a Slavonic people, specifically Macedonian Slavs. When someone else labels your ethnicity that is not called self-determination, Spitfire. Even though the opportunity for self-determination was not given, you follow what the census creators determined to label these people. However, when the historians (equivalent to the census creators) who verify the ethnicity of Alexander I to not be Greek, you follow Alexander I’s proposal.

The self-determination equates the same outcome due to the circumstances.

[spitfire]

Incorrect, as usual.

The people who did the census are the ones who labelled the population as a Slavonic people, specifically Macedonian Slavs. When someone else labels your ethnicity that is not called self-determination, Spitfire. Even though the opportunity for self-determination was not given, you follow what the census creators determined to label these people. However, when the historians (equivalent to the census creators) who verify the ethnicity of Alexander I to not be Greek, you follow Alexander I’s proposal.

The self-determination equates the same outcome due to the circumstances.

Nikolaj, 1+1=2. Decide upon which is which first, then we can discuss.

[Nikolaj]

Nikolaj, 1+1=2. Decide upon which is which first, then we can discuss.

My statement was presented as a single entity. If you cannot fathom your own contradictions that's your issue. I don't blame you though, I too agree your contradictions are hilariously ridiculous.

The only possible conclusion to your lack of understanding (apart from ignorance) is that you believe this ethnic group called themselves Macedonian Slavs and not strictly Macedonians?

[spitfire]

My statement was presented as a single entity. If you cannot fathom your own contradictions that's your issue. I don't blame you though, I too agree your contradictions are hilariously ridiculous.

The only possible conclusion to your lack of understanding (apart from ignorance) is that you believe this ethnic group called themselves Macedonian Slavs and not strictly Macedonians?

Let's start again.

Where in the data presented there is a self-identification.
Figure that out first, and then we can discuss.

[George S.]

Spitfire how is someone going to fight with the might of the state falsely labelled slav macedonian.Their rights are non existent.Think about it if the greek govt denies a certain minority for political reasons.Explain to me how your greek govt has turned its face on a people it had conquered.Remember the greeks had their roles reversed with the greeks been
conquered by the macedonians more than 2300 years ago.I'm an outsider looking in.I see the greek govt has been relentless and ruthless in its quest of rooting out any macedonian conciousness.Yhink about it forbidding of speaking the macedonian idium.By imrisonment,beatings,banishment.The greeks had a secret police listening on window sills thats at that level.If you spoke macedian you were given a couple of snorts of the castor oil.How horrible for the so calle cradle of civilisation and democracy.Other attrocities were committed too horible to state.But the slav prefix was to DENATIONALISE people deliberately.Please explain WHY the greek govt WAS comfortable
previously with the serb,yugoslav /macedonia set up.The reason being was macedonia was kept under check by the serbs.As long as macedonians stayed as part of a federation as part of yugoslavia it was kept check on.Remember the greek and serb relationships were very good over the years until greece felt it was threatened.The kabelling was by the conqueror greece to take over and have areason for taking over macedonian lands.Not that macedonians werew slav.You got to be really stupid to beleive that you can just label a people slav just because you are diung it for propaganda purposes.You are simply RENAMING people,who have ALLWaYS been called Macedonians.SElf determination is the other thing.If we were slav macedonian we would be content to be that were not.AS i said how can someone else be teremining your identity without even consulting with you.Exampl calling you fyrom.Vetoing you every step of the way.Greece has got something to hide i don'y beleive anything they do they got something to hide.There are crazy people in greece who go along with everything their govt does without question.Spitfirehave you stopped for once in your life that some of us or most of us in this forum are just telling the truth why are you so sure.For one thing i will never accept the fascist ,nazi govt telling me WHO I am OR what they LABEL me.NEVER.

[George S.]

Spitfire how is someone going to fight with the might of the state falsely labelled its minority slav macedonian.Their rights are non existent.Think about it if the greek govt denies a certain minority for political reasons.Explain to me how your greek govt has turned its face on a people it had conquered.Remember the greeks had their roles reversed .with the greeks been
conquered by the macedonians more than 2300 years ago.I'm an outsider looking in.I see the greek govt has been relentless and ruthless in its quest of rooting out any macedonian conciousness.Yhink about it forbidding of speaking the macedonian idium.By imrisonment,beatings,banishment.The greeks had a secret police listening on window sills thats at that level.If you spoke macedian you were given a couple of snorts of the castor oil.How horrible for the so calle cradle of civilisation and democracy.Other attrocities were committed too horible to state.But the slav prefix was to DENATIONALISE people deliberately.Please explain WHY the greek govt WAS comfortable
previously with the serb,yugoslav /macedonia set up.The reason being was macedonia was kept under check by the serbs.As long as macedonians stayed as part of a federation as part of yugoslavia it was kept check on.Remember the greek and serb relationships were very good over the years until greece felt it was threatened.The kabelling was by the conqueror greece to take over and have areason for taking over macedonian lands.Not that macedonians werew slav.You got to be really stupid to beleive that you can just label a people slav just because you are doing it for propaganda purposes.You are simply RENAMING people,who have ALLWaYS been called Macedonians.SElf determination is the other thing.If we were slav macedonian we would be content to be that were not.AS i said how can someone else be teremining your identity without even consulting with you.Exampl calling you fyrom.Vetoing you every step of the way.Greece has got something to hide i don'y beleive anything they do they got something to hide.There are crazy people in greece who go along with everything their govt does without question. Do you think that the greek govt will admit to how many macedonians are in the aegean are? i don'y yhink so.Spitfirehave you stopped for once in your life that some of us or most of us in this forum are just telling the truth why are you so sure.For one thing i will never accept the fascist ,nazi govt telling me WHO I am OR what they LABEL me.NEVER.

[spitfire]

George.

There is no minority of macedonians in Greece. Do you understand how a minority is considered? Look at the muslim minority in Thrace. They have all the rights of greek citizenship, and some more, and even some more in violation of the treaty. The govt. simply doesn't want this to take extend. Otherwise, some extravagant rights should be abandoned.
We treat minorities like royalty. But there has to be one in the first place.

[Amphipolis]

Demotic is often thought to be the same as the Modern Greek language, but these two terms are not completely synonymous. Although Demotic is a term applied to the naturally evolved colloquial language of the Greeks, the Modern Greek language of today (Standard Modern Greek; Νεοελληνική Κοινή) is more like a fusion of Demotic and Katharevousa. It is not wrong to call the spoken language of today Demotic, but such a terminology ignores the fact that Modern Greek contains—especially in a written or official form—numerous words, grammatical forms and phonetical features that didn't exist in colloquial speech and only entered the language through its archaic variety. Besides, even the most archaic forms of Katharevousa were never thought of as Ancient Greek, but were always called "Modern Greek", so that the phrase "Modern Greek" applies to Demotic, Standard Modern Greek, and even Katharevousa

That's not very good. Demotic and Kathareuousa are both Modern Greek.

Standard Modern Greek IS demotic.

Both Demotic and Kathareuousa do not have clear limits (they can be found in several versions) and are products of the evolution of Greek language.

Kathareuousa is not an invention and it can be found before Coraes, for instance, in the official letters and anouncements of the Church.

This is a passage (the amazing beginning) from Alexias written by Anna Comnene in 11th Century AD. This is Kathareuousa and this is how a Princess writes.

Ῥέων ὁ χρόνος ἀκάθεκτα καὶ ἀεί τι κινούμενος παρασύρει καὶ παραφέρει πάντα τὰ ἐν γενέσει καὶ ἐς βυθὸν ἀφανείας καταποντοῖ ὅπου μὲν οὐκ ἄξια λόγου πράγματα, ὅπου δὲ μεγάλα τε καὶ ἄξια μνήμης, καὶ τά τε ἄδηλα φύων κατὰ τὴν τραγῳδίαν καὶ τὰ φανέντα ἀποκρυπτόμενος.
Ἀλλ' ὅγε λόγος ὁ τῆς ἱστορίας ἔρυμα καρτερώτατον γίνεται τῷ τοῦ χρόνου ῥεύματι καὶ ἵστησι τρόπον τινὰ τὴν ἀκάθεκτον τούτου ῥοὴν καὶ τὰ ἐν αὐτῷ γινόμενα πάντα, ὁπόσα ὑπερείληφε, ξυνέχει καὶ περισφίγγει καὶ οὐκ ἐᾷ διολισθαίνειν εἰς λήθης βυθούς.

So, until 1821 all educated people would still speak and (mostly) write in a form of archaic Greek (including love letters). That's basically the idea of Kathareuousa.

[Risto the Great]

George.

There is no minority of macedonians in Greece. Do you understand how a minority is considered? Look at the muslim minority in Thrace. They have all the rights of greek citizenship, and some more, and even some more in violation of the treaty. The govt. simply doesn't want this to take extend. Otherwise, some extravagant rights should be abandoned.
We treat minorities like royalty. But there has to be one in the first place.

You should really think about how you depart from Golden Dawn in your thinking. How dare you deny existence of a Macedonian minority in Greece.

Here is a tip. There is a Macedonian minority in Greece. And if you are a Greek pretending to be sincere with them, they will still tell you whatever they think will put a smile on your face.

Macedonians treated like royalty in Greece? Maybe like Russian Tzars during the Russian revolution.

Such a blind typical Greek.

[Risto the Great]

That's not very good. Demotic and Kathareuousa are both Modern Greek.

Everything is Greek re megale .... we know.

... I would contend the educated people you speak of are not representative of the language of the people back then. But it is now. I have said it many times already.

[Risto the Great]

No, slavonic and slav refers to the same thing. Very general term though.
It was published as slavonic, later became known as slav. So it is about slavs isn't it?
Don't fool yoursfelf, these words are related. Just like Romaioi and Romioi.

Nothing like what Romioi self identified as. Stop being a Greek "hater". And why don't you define a slav? While you are at it, explain whether it is a title for a specific ethnicity.

C'mon Spitfire, rise above the golden dawn and be less Greek and more thoughtful about this.