Bosnia: Politics and Current Events

[Buktop]

How can you, a very strong and passionate Yugoslavian, support some one like Cento who wanted a free and independent Macedonia. A person who was jailed by your Tito, and a person who was a enemy of your Yugoslavia???

can you show me a quote or a text where Chento said that we should kill and murder people because they are not Muslim or Catholic or Bosniak or Croat or Orthodox or Macedonian?

Cento never did say such things.

There you go, not only was he a civil human being, he stood by his principles and his dedication to Macedonia.

I am not a Yugoslav, and I know that people like you and Vangelovski like to use this term to discredit any statement I make by taking advantage of the Yugophobia that seems to be rampant in this McCarthy style system of debate. "You're a witch!" "He's a Witch!" "She's a Witch!", this is not how to conduct a civil debate, whether or not there is a Witch does not have any bearing on the relevance on the statements made.

Izebegovic never did produce documents that said Bosniaks should kill all catholics and orthodox Christians because they are not muslims. The quote from Izebegovic "There can be neither peace nor coexistence between the Islamic religion and non-Islamic political and social institutions" to me doenst sound like he wants mass genocide of all non believers of Allah or kill non-Muslims, its him saying that muslims cant live in a non-political and social environment. I think you are trying a bit to hard to make something out of nothing here Buktop, stop over reacting….
And as I have posted earlier even western historians think that quote is over used by Serbian nationalists, and it appears now people like you…..

Now you are trying to downplay the significance of a statement to justify you're previous statements using Izebegovic as an example of proud nationalist and patriot. What the hell do you think "There can be neither peace nor coexistence between the Islamic religion and non-Islamic political and social institutions" means? It's pretty self-explanatory...

In regards to Tudjman, well yeah I cant really defend him in saying genocide is acceptable, but WHO or WHAT is he referring to? Maybe he is referring to the genocide of the Italians who lived in Croat and Slovenia Istrian lands that lived there for thousands of years that the Yugoslavs eliminated after WW2. Or the expulsion of Macedonian Muslims and Turks from Macedonia?

“Genocidal violence is a natural phenomenon in harmony with the societal and mythologically Divine nature. Genocide is not only permitted it is also recommended, even commanded by the Word of the Almighty, whenever it is useful for the survival or the restoration of the earthly kingdom of the chosen nation, or for the preservation and spreading of its one and only correct faith”

Pretty self-explanatory...

So its ok for Tito to do a bit of his own genocide to certain peoples in Yugoslavia (his enemy’s) but it’s a horrible inhuman crime for Tudjman to mention genocide in one of his books?????

Have I made an excuse for Tito anywhere in this thread? Tito had hundreds, if not thousands, of people killed for numerous reasons. No one here is saying that Tito was right, or that he was a saint. Try to stick to the topic.

And finally I think you are a bit confused here, I don’t put Cento on the same level as those other two mentioned. As I have said numerous times on this thread. I am just saying that both Cento, Tudjman and Izebegovic were sentenced to jail because they participated in nationalist and separatist movements for their respected nationalities. Hence they were the enemy’s of Yugoslavia as they either did not want to be apart of it, or wanted their respected peoples to have more rights/changes/freedom etc. That is the ONLY connection I see between them, and that’s the point I have been trying to get across to you Buktop.
Do you get it now?!?!

And like I was saying, Izebegovic and Tudjman were arrested after publishing vulgar statements like the ones I quoted, Cento was arrested after demanding "the right of self-determination, as well as the right of independence and bigger economic independence of the federal units."

It's kind of like saying that oranges and watermelons are the same because they are both round...

[Prolet]

Kissinger: Bosnia Should be Split into Three Parts

This is interesting

Thursday, 16 September 2010

Henry Kissinger was one of the most important politicians in the US international politics from 1969 to 1977. He served as a State Secretary under Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford. In a recent interview Kissinger stated that Bosnia must be split into three parts and then those parts be annexed to the neighboring countries.

- There is no such thing as a Bosnian language. No such thing as Bosnian Culture. Bosnia itself is an administrative country which has three groups of people: Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks artificially created in the former Yugoslavia who the western diplomats stupidly recognized as a 'country', says Kissinger.

Kissinger believes the muslims in Bosnia should be given a piece of land they would call a 'country' while the majority Serbs and Croats in Bosnia would either create their own states or would join Serbia and Croatia respectively.

According to Kissinger, this sort of solution would work best and will satisfy the three groups in Bosnia.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/16490/46/

[Big Bad Sven]

You know, Kissinger may be right. All three people in Bosnia hate each other. The "muslim-croat federation" is a farce with both people not working together. But the ironic thing was he was instrumental in all what happened in the destruction of Bosnia. Just your typical american slimeball politician.

But he is playing a dangerous game, calling nations and languages "artificial" and most importantly asking for countries to be divided up.

It wasnt too long ago that the evil Kissinger was boasting aloud that he sided with grease and that grease was "right" in its agenda towards macedonia.... We all know how he feels in regards to the "greek" issue, wouldnt suprise me if he supports the shiptars

[Big Bad Sven]

I seem to have answered my own questions about Kissenger thanks to a quick google search.

He believes that there are over 800,000 thousand oppressed shiptars in macedonia and that the macedonians are "exclusively bulgarian". Just another person who wants to start more fires in the balkans......

[fyrOM]

He is right about Bosnia. Just careful population shifts could separate the groups and bring peace. AHH…but what does this say for the west’s beloved multiculturalism…a completely unnatural stupid social experiment whose failure will be evident in due course. The saying is love your neighbour not stick him in your bed or he will f your wife.

[DirtyCodingHabitz]

No one cares what Kissinger says. That guy is a joke.

[Frank]

Would Kissinger agree that Kosovo should be the first and foremost State to be partitioned, well Off course not.

[Onur]

You know, Kissinger may be right. All three people in Bosnia hate each other. The "muslim-croat federation" is a farce with both people not working together. But the ironic thing was he was instrumental in all what happened in the destruction of Bosnia. Just your typical american slimeball politician.

All three people in Bosnia hates each other for a while but the question is since when and how this situation created?

These people lived together in peace during Ottoman and Yugoslavia era for centuries, then i believe some evil minded people embedded seeds of hate to them by using religious difference. After that, ofc Kissinger becomes "right!!!"


Btw, what "Muslim-Croat" coalition you talking about? Didn't you read the diaries of Ratko Mladic? He clearly states what happened at the days of Bosnian war and there are also audio records of Milosevic and Croat authorities doing negotiations;

Details emerge from Mladic's diary

Bosnian Serb general Ratko Mladic recorded details of secret deals with Bosnian Croats to divide the country and expel the Muslim population in the early 1990s, according to excerpts of his diaries.

Prosecutors at the Yugoslav war crimes tribunal in The Hague cited Mladic's diaries, seized in a raid on his wife's Belgrade home in February, in a motion on Friday to reopen the trial of former Bosnian Croat political leader Jadranko Prlic and five other political and military Croat officials that ended two months ago.

They say seized notebooks and audio cassettes support their contention of a Serb-Croat conspiracy following the disintegration of Yugoslavia to drive out Muslims from parts of Bosnia and carve up the state into larger Croatian and Serbian nations.

"We need to agree on two-three things today. Muslims are the common enemy," Mladic's notebooks quoted Prlic as saying in June 1994.

"There are two-three ways to keep them down (first - militarily, by breaking their backbone)," read the note from the meeting that also included Radovan Karadzic, the top Bosnian Serb leader who is standing trial separately.

The excerpts were the first snippets released from the 18 diaries, written in Cyrillic script in Mladic's hand over 3500 pages, that chronicled his activities during the 1992-95 Bosnian war. An estimated 100,000 people died in the conflict.

Mladic was indicted for genocide by the UN tribunal even before the war ended, and has been a fugitive for 15 years.

Only a few notes directly related to the case of the Bosnian Croats were released to support the argument that Mladic's diaries offer "fresh evidence" warranting a reopening of the four-year-long trial.

The six are accused of the cruel imprisonment of thousands of Muslims in military detention camps, where inmates were brutalised, beaten, underfed and kept in inhumane conditions. Detainees were forced to beat others, including their own families. Some were shot.

The motion said the diaries showed the Croatian defendants conspiring with Bosnian Serb leaders "who were responsible for widespread crimes," and provided evidence that they also "intended crimes to be committed" to establish a Croatian-dominated state.

"If you kill 50,000 Muslims more, you will not achieve anything. Their population will quickly recover," the dairies quoted another defendant, Slobodan Praljak, as saying. "The population should be exchanged."

Beyond incidents involving the Bosnian Croats, the notebooks hold out the promise of a treasure trove of information about behind-the-scenes contacts by the Bosnian Serb leadership, where Mladic had a central role in the planning and military execution of the war.

Prosecutors have applied to introduce them as evidence in the Karadzic genocide trial. They said the wartime records cover discussions about strategic military objectives, possible sanctions and the treatment of civilians in the Srebrenica safe haven on the eve of the massacre there of 8000 Muslim men by Mladic's forces and Serb paramilitaries.

They also include conversations with Slobodan Milosevic, the Serb leader accused of engineering Yugoslavia's breakup who died of a heart attack in 2006 before his own war crimes trial was concluded. The diaries also have Mladic's notes from meetings with international mediators, former US Secretary of State Cyrus Vance and former British Foreign Secretary David Owen.

July 10, 2010

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news...710-104ef.html

[Prolet]

They are all as guilty as eachother, lets not forget that Al Queda and the Taliban was fighting for the Bosnian Muslims. Not one Bosnian Muslim leader has been found guilty of war crimes which is more then clear that they want to make them be the victims of this war and justifying their attacks on the Serbian and Croatian forces in Bosnia and Hercegovina. Im not sure why this is a surprise, when you have a common enemy surly you would cut a deal and figure out a way to get rid of them thats what our neighbors did to us in 1913, thats what happened in Turkey during World War 1 when they were attacked and invaded by multiple armies.

[Louis Riel]

And Kissinger should be split into a few parts too....drawing and quartering would be a light penalty for that man.

[PetarMKD]

Hmmm a German Jew you say living in America... Which country we would like to see divided I wonder. Maybe Israel... Does it hurt? Off course, now we are talking about your own country and that is non negotiable.

[Frank]

Hmmm a German Jew you say living in America... Which country we would like to see divided I wonder. Maybe Israel... Does it hurt? Off course, now we are talking about your own country and that is non negotiable.

With an International Force and Treaty behind it this will solve the decades of War in the region

No way off course when the boot is on your foot

[Jankovska]

Ratko Mladic 'arrested'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13561407

Did they got him? Have the Serbs cracked and betrayed Mladic for a chance to get closer to the EU?

[Onur]

This is a theater play just like the arrest of Osama Bin-Laden.

Serbian PM says, "Serbia has closed a painful chapter in its history". It is that easy? Blame one man for everything and voila, Serbia becomes an angel all of a sudden!! A perfect candidate for EU and representative of EU democracy!!!

Reuters quotes a European Commission spokeswoman as saying that if the Serbs have arrested Mladic, that would boost the country's EU membership hopes. "If this is the case we consider that Serbia has understood the importance of... reconciliation with its history and its people and has decided it concretely wants to move further on its European path," she told a regular news briefing.

This is a joke. They just arrested the man who has been kept hidden by the same Serbian authorities for 20 years and PM Tadic says they will arrest another one of their criminals too. EU responds with, "they did an extraordinary step for being a member of EU"!!!

OK, now we can forget the Dutch UN soldiers who allowed Mladic to enter Srebrenica to kill 10.000 in a week and the commander of UN Dutch battalion who gave a toast with champagne, together with Mladic after the massacre.

[Bij]

The hunting party. Great movie