Islamist Terrorism in the West

[Risto the Great]

This only goes to show how ignorant you are towards Christianity, that you quoted the old testament. Still by the same God though right, Risto?

Yep, same God. The Abrahamic one. The one the muslims also read about in the old texts. Christians added to it. But God can't change his mind. He knows all.

[Phoenix]

There is a difference between Christian and Islamic Terrorism.

Christian terrorism is a product of corruption and not a derivation of the religion itself. The crusades for example, nowhere in the bible it says to kill people who don’t believe in Jesus Christ; Christ himself does not force people to follow him let alone promote the killing of non-followers, he gives them a choice under their own free will. In fact by killing people and being a Christian you are contradicting religion to begin with which does not mean the religion is bad, but the person. To add to this, the catholic crusaders killed more orthodox Christians than Muslims, to believe this is a product of religion and not corruption; wealth and power, is a laughable notion.

Also, you mentioned the child molesting catholic priests. In Orthodoxy you cannot be a priest unless you are married, when a priest dies his wealth goes to his family. If the priest’s wife dies he is demoted and no longer has the title of a priest. In Catholicism you cannot be a priest if you are married, when a priest dies his wealth goes to the church. Orthodoxy do not impose inhumane rules like Catholicism does because they are there for the religion…unlike the corrupted catholic church who without a doubt give no fucks about the religion; but money. Can you blame the Catholic priests who have natural sexual urges? Why is this important to mention? It is another example on how people would blame the religion for something that has no derivation from the religion itself, but is directly linked to corruption. I know a lot of Maronites who are no longer Catholics and are now followers of the Orthodox Church for the same reason, to not promote this.

Islamic terrorism is not a product of corruption as the terrorism is derived from Quran itself; it does promote both defensive and offensive violence who do not believe in their god. People who deny this are absolute jokes when I for one know plenty of Muslims who admit to this. Actually, they deny this and theorize that they are taken out of context simply to defend it to try to put Islam of the same pedestal of Christianity.

Either way, it is irrelevant because we are talking here and now which is Islam. Just want to clarify that those people who say these things Bill generalize, doing so is equivalent to the degeneracy that Greeks promote about us being Bulgarian and that the Macedonians are Greek.

I seriously doubt that 'Islamic terrorism' is the right term.
I think it's a terrorist tactic to use Islam as a unifier and point of difference for those pursuing their own agenda against the West.

Sadly, that 'us against them' leverage that some terrorists of sometimes dubious Islamic adherence are trying to generate has gained a foothold here on the MTO and large parts of the wider community.

As for putting up the moral integrity of the Orthodox Church ahead of the Catholic Church is equally as ridiculous...

[Risto the Great]

Chris,

I never intended to come across as to suggest the culprits behind every terrorist attack in history have been Muslims. I've tried clarifying my statement over and over which everyone understands and I'm sure including you. But you keep on using the statement out of context. Why do you keep throwing it up? Is it the only thing you have left In your arsenal?

Because it was a terrible thing to say and diminishes the atrocities inflicted upon the world by non muslims. Because not all terrorists are muslim. You have now clarified your statement and you should edit your original post in my opinion.

VMRO came to the same conclusion as me in relation to your first post I might add.

I also like to know why should Tom explain or get into a discusion with you over something I wrote in the beginning of this thread. I am responsible for it, only I need to explain which I have.

See Bill, this a Christian brotherhood kind of thing. I am not sure why you seek to defend him. I must respond here and say "I would like to know why that little man responded to my post when I was only responding to you". Anyway, he did respond. He had nothing to say other than being nasty. His typical fashion. You know his nature very well. So I wanted his clarification on what I believe was a reckless statement by you.

Here is another way of putting it. This is how I veiewed it when making those claims.
First it needs to be put in context (which you deliberately take out). What preceded my controversial statement "All terrorists are Muslims" (which was only half the quote) Was "Not all Muslims are terrorists.

Adding your preceding statement did not reduce the impact of your second statement. It still reads that all terrorists are muslim. So, in fact, it is not necessary to read the preceding text. It was a silly statement that you have now seemed to retract in a marginal way.

I hate all terrorists, but I will not say they are all muslim. Further, for the sake of relevance, I will also have to accept that VMRO were regarded as terrorists by some people way back 100 years ago. But we Macedonians regard them as freedom fighters. And they were indeed Christian for all intents and purposes. So, perhaps one man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

Now Chris....tell us about Jesus.
I can tell you he loves you so much that he died for you.

You can't tell me that based on fact. You can tell me that based on your faith. I can tell you that he didn't know me 2000 years ago.

I can also tell you that the Buddhists approach God in a way that sits quite well with me presently but that has nothing to do with this discussion.

[Risto the Great]

In Orthodoxy you cannot be a priest unless you are married, when a priest dies his wealth goes to his family. If the priest’s wife dies he is demoted and no longer has the title of a priest.

My understanding is that an Orthodox priest will not move up into higher levels of the church if he is married. I am aware of one Macedonian priest who divorced his wife so he could in fact chase higher positions within the church. It is completely opposite to your statement. But I can confirm as fact that he certainly wasn't demoted.

Nothing to do with those terrible Muslim terrorists though.

[Bill77]

Name calling? Personal attack - calling me a direct bigot.

Julie,
Before going all Jihadi on me, and calling for a fatwa, dont blame me for your insecurities, seriously sis.

i just questioned why you bring up WACO, KKK, ( Catholic Priests on another thread)...... whats the fascination?

if your point is of anti Christian nature (Your tactic is obvious.....oh and i love the cover ups at the end....coming across all diplomatic after you hit and run) stop and think what were your motives.
if you truly believe there is nothing sinister about your motive, then your naivety you have on Christian matters is sad.





Then you end with this

What a big man you are now that you are a born again Christian Bill.

The obsession with Christians after denying being obsessed

You can continue thinking with Julie that people of the KKK were bible worshipers. That's equivalent to thinking Hitler was a catholic, the same catholic who referred to humans as species.

Spot on Nikolaj


On another subject (still related to this Paris terrorist attack) the subject of freedom of speech all these numb nuts carry on about. Was charlie hebdo and what they did a form of "Freedom of Speech"?

[Bill77]

See Bill, this a Christian brotherhood kind of thing. I am not sure why you seek to defend him.

First of all Chris,
Im glad and relieved we can tone down our charade over the last few pages. I do not mind at all explaining my thoughts in a right atmosphere.

Now the Christian brotherhood thing? firstly.....we are segregated by others imo its not that we chose to be apart from the rest. You just did it again with the first sentence above. We have been labeled.

By the way, this label is not insulting at all, if this brotherhood label sticks, i would be proud to be part of it if the likes of Tom, Nikolaj, Philosopher, Tomche....just to name a few, are part of it.
Yes we Christians share a same belief so of-course when we get on to the subject of Christianity, we will defend our belief, the same as You and Julie and whoever else who are anti Christianity express your belief, would it be correct to label yous Brotherhood of Anti Christs?
Its silly Chris, Im sure you guys dont go around burning Churchs, and i assure you we dont go around on crusades.

Now the defending Tom comment........seriously, i don't want any other person to get blame or need to explain something for what i said or did. You have to get this imaginary brotherhood out of your head its not the case. This was a personal confrontation between the two of you on a matter i created, i just took responsibility for my actions and the consequence it caused. You know well, Tom can handle him self, i have nothing to offer Tom when it comes to debate, ill just get in his way.


Oh forgive me i almost forgot......Jesus loves you Chris
I mean it.

[Risto the Great]

Im glad and relieved we can tone down our charade over the last few pages. I do not mind at all explaining my thoughts in a right atmosphere.

I haven't toned down one bit. Nor had I toned up. I haven't been playing charades. I wanted to emphatically reject the statement that all terrorists are muslim. It brings the forum into disrepute and is utterly distasteful in my opinion. If nobody rejected your statement, then MTO would be regarded as believing it in my opinion. Not much different from the White Supremacy sites or whatever.

If you said "most terrorist acts lately have been perpetrated by Muslims" I would find it difficult to dispute. But you didn't. It is that simple.

Now the defending Tom comment........seriously, i don't want any other person to get blame or need to explain something for what i said or did. You have to get this imaginary brotherhood out of your head its not the case. This was a personal confrontation between the two of you on a matter i created, i just took responsibility for my actions and the consequence it caused. You know well, Tom can handle him self, i have nothing to offer Tom when it comes to debate, ill just get in his way.

I think it is pathetic that he chose to hop on a thread solely to attack me without even commenting on the matters you or I raised. I can only assume he felt it was his way of showing he supports you. So I want to determine how deep his support is. To see if he is willing to make the same declaration as you, that all terrorists are Muslim.

Have you noticed how he refuses to answer? He does that a lot.

You can't group the non active Christians (or atheists) in any useful way because they all have independent thoughts and each has to be assessed on his/her own merit. But I see members of the "brotherhood" rallying around this cause and trying to find more palatable ways of saying what you said. And it simply ends up being little more than a Christianity/Islam pissing contest. I much prefer independent thought on these issues.

Oh forgive me i almost forgot......Jesus loves you Chris
I mean it.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I actually would prefer it if Jesus tells me instead of you. If you are suggesting he is talking through you, then please ask him where Baba left the cash she was hiding.

[Nikolaj]

Yep, same God. The Abrahamic one. The one the muslims also read about in the old texts. Christians added to it. But God can't change his mind. He knows all.

Even if it were true, it's irrelevant, Christians don't follow the old testament. This does not imply they do not read it, by your logic, Christians would have contradictory values which they clearly do not. Ask a priest if he values 'eye for an eye.' You cannot say a terrorist attack is Christian-inspired because it simply does not promote it as it is not an ideology of the religion, unlike Islam where it is.

I will keep repeating this Risto until you understand the significance of this line. But.. I like how you ignore the rest of my comment and start speaking about the relativity of 'Abrahamic' religions when it still has no role in this discussion.

My understanding is that an Orthodox priest will not move up into higher levels of the church if he is married. I am aware of one Macedonian priest who divorced his wife so he could in fact chase higher positions within the church. It is completely opposite to your statement. But I can confirm as fact that he certainly wasn't demoted.

Nothing to do with those terrible Muslim terrorists though.

Sorry Phoenix,

An orthodox priest must be married before they can become ordained, if they are not married they must become monks first. An orthodox priest cannot get married once they are ordained but they can before they are. The priest may not remarry and continue in his ministry even if his wife dies, period. A priest who has vowed for celibacy may move up in the priest hood.

The Macedonian priest who divorced his wife to move upwards in priesthood is without a doubt not moving up like he thought he was. In fact, he'd be lucky to get a job as a janitor at most.

There has been no contradictory content here, however if you are truly curious, go ask an orthodox priest.

I never said it had relevance to Islam. I said it had relevance to people generalizing christianity to be this child molesting circle when there is en irrefutable distinction.

I seriously doubt that 'Islamic terrorism' is the right term.
I think it's a terrorist tactic to use Islam as a unifier and point of difference for those pursuing their own agenda against the West.

Sadly, that 'us against them' leverage that some terrorists of sometimes dubious Islamic adherence are trying to generate has gained a foothold here on the MTO and large parts of the wider community.

Yes it is possible in many scenario's, but the ones you hear the repetitive shouting of allahu akbar, clearly not. It's besides the point, lets say no Muslims do terrorist acts. It still does not change the fact terrorism on non-believers is irrefutably promoted within the Quran. What I've been talking about is a matter of the Quran, not the terrorist attacks themselves.

As for putting up the moral integrity of the Orthodox Church ahead of the Catholic Church is equally as ridiculous...

Are you saying the catholic church is on par with the orthodox church when they conclude it is ethical to molest young boys to fulfill their sexual desires so the catholic church can make greater profits from deceased priests?

Please explain your wild claim on how the morality of these churches are equal?

Phoenix, have you noticed the architectural difference between catholic and orthodox churches my friend? The difference in production value maybe?

[Risto the Great]

Even if it were true, it's irrelevant, Christians don't follow the old testament. This does not imply they do not read it, by your logic, Christians would have contradictory values which they clearly do not. Ask a priest if he values 'eye for an eye.' You cannot say a terrorist attack is Christian-inspired because it simply does not promote it as it is not an ideology of the religion, unlike Islam where it is.

I will keep repeating this Risto until you understand the significance of this line. But.. I like how you ignore the rest of my comment and start speaking about the relativity of 'Abrahamic' religions when it still has no role in this discussion.

So, the old testament means nothing to you. But you read it. Why? Hang on a sec, let me find the LOL

Hey, I like your Christianity. I reckon I can break all 10 commandments (in a loving manner) and still get to heaven if this is true. And what about those pesky homosexuals. Jesus never said anything about them. So why does that little prude Vangelovski get so worked up about them and want them addressed in Macedonia's constitution?

An orthodox priest must be married before they can become ordained, if they are not married they must become monks first. An orthodox priest cannot get married once they are ordained but they can before they are. The priest may not remarry and continue in his ministry even if his wife dies, period. A priest who has vowed for celibacy may move up in the priest hood.

The Macedonian priest who divorced his wife to move upwards in priesthood is without a doubt not moving up like he thought he was. In fact, he'd be lucky to get a job as a janitor at most.

In fact, you are wrong. His wife was still alive. He moved up and was a bishop. But this is the MOC we are talking about. Anything is possible. Even selling themselves to Russians or Serbs. Maybe you are talking about an ideal here. But I suspect you have made some stuff up in your head while I am talking about a real case.

Are you saying the catholic church is on par with the orthodox church when they conclude it is ethical to molest young boys to fulfill their sexual desires so the catholic church can make greater profits from deceased priests?

Another
Gotta love those religions founded on fear ('cause if you don't, you know what happens).

Here is a tip, (in the interest of thread relevance), put your spiritual money where your mouth is and quote the lines of the Quran that encourage the Muslim terrorists. But (as an added twist) put moderate Muslim interpretations alongside your own next to the Quran lines.

[Vangelovski]

Answer the question little man.
Are all terrorists muslim?

You can then tell me what I said. Because you haven't done anything other than being a nasty christian type of litle man to this point on this thread.

Just as I expected, more of the same. Your god that even you don't seem to know works in mysterious ways.

[Risto the Great]

Just as I expected, more of the same. Your god that even you don't seem to know works in mysterious ways.

I won't blame your God for you being so pathetic. You still can't answer the question little man? In case you forgot, I asked whether you believe all terrorists are Muslim.

My new question is why did you even open your rude little dirty mouth on this thread if you had no desire to comment on the subject matter? If you persist in unrelated banter, I vote for you to be banned.

Perhaps it is your distaste for Catholics that causes you not to comment. Who knows what goes through the mind of your sort.

[Bill77]

I haven't toned down one bit.

Oh yes you did.
But don't panic.....in this very next post, you are back to your arrogant idiot again. Chris mate....why are you so tormented?

As for the rest...its typical garbage not worth responding to.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I actually would prefer it if Jesus tells me instead of you.

[Risto the Great]

why are you so tormented?

Just biblical.
I just do unto others ....
you know how it goes.

[Vangelovski]

I won't blame your God for you being so pathetic. You still can't answer the question little man? In case you forgot, I asked whether you believe all terrorists are Muslim.

My new question is why did you even open your rude little dirty mouth on this thread if you had no desire to comment on the subject matter? If you persist in unrelated banter, I vote for you to be banned.

Perhaps it is your distaste for Catholics that causes you not to comment. Who knows what goes through the mind of your sort.

How's that any different to what you do?

I vote for you to be banned. You've done nothing but persecute Macedonian Christians on this forum since it began. You're filth.

[Risto the Great]

How's that any different to what you do?

I vote for you to be banned. You've done nothing but persecute Macedonian Christians on this forum since it began. You're filth.

I tend to remain relevant to a thread.

No answer still?
I only persecute wankers. You for instance.
But let's not say "persecute", let's say "humour myself with".

Still no answer from you though. It is quite remarkable.

But please find examples of me persecuting Christians from the beginning of this forum. I would love to see them. Really!

I feel like I am being attacked for being a non-Christian here. It really potentially hurts me. I sometimes want to feel like crying about it. But then I just laugh at the little man who is attacking me.